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Force Protection failure in Greece: RCN ship vandalized


NST had provided security the last time an HMC ship was in that port. Apparently no measures in place this time around.

Facebook comment from a former NST NCO:

''Lots of silly comments from people who think they know all about Force Protection. First, when we stood up NST in the exact same port we had two check points and a guarded gate with spike strips and Greek police manning those gates. Second, you would never open fire on people especially if the threat triangle isn't complete. Not sure how they got so close to the ship with the normal security measures in place, but it happened and it was only paint. However, this is exactly why you secure the jetty prior to a ship coming alongside using CAF and local authorities. De-escalate as best as possible and then use non-lethal force such as your fire hoses rigged on the upper decks.......trust me, they will stop someone
😉
.....ask ST....lol.''


Some context from a more friendly Greek:

''Alright... As a Greek-Canadian (served both in the Greek and Canadian army) I would like to apologize. Those guys are fuckin morons and stupid as fuck!
In 1932 Russia would give huge amounts of money(in other words fund) KKE(those fucking cunts who thru the paint), So one day they would "rule" Greece. The Greek army didn't let that happen and thru a lot of them in the jail.. So since then they can't stand the sight of any military uniform. Whenever they see anything that has to do with military they throw paint cans.
Sorry for my bad English!''
 

Humphrey Bogart

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NST had provided security the last time an HMC ship was in that port. Apparently no measures in place this time around.

Facebook comment from a former NST NCO:

''Lots of silly comments from people who think they know all about Force Protection. First, when we stood up NST in the exact same port we had two check points and a guarded gate with spike strips and Greek police manning those gates. Second, you would never open fire on people especially if the threat triangle isn't complete. Not sure how they got so close to the ship with the normal security measures in place, but it happened and it was only paint. However, this is exactly why you secure the jetty prior to a ship coming alongside using CAF and local authorities. De-escalate as best as possible and then use non-lethal force such as your fire hoses rigged on the upper decks.......trust me, they will stop someone
😉
.....ask ST....lol.''


Some context from a more friendly Greek:

''Alright... As a Greek-Canadian (served both in the Greek and Canadian army) I would like to apologize. Those guys are fuckin morons and stupid as fuck!
In 1932 Russia would give huge amounts of money(in other words fund) KKE(those fucking cunts who thru the paint), So one day they would "rule" Greece. The Greek army didn't let that happen and thru a lot of them in the jail.. So since then they can't stand the sight of any military uniform. Whenever they see anything that has to do with military they throw paint cans.
Sorry for my bad English!''
If it were an American Ship there would probably be a few dead Greeks.

I am wondering where the Upper Deck Sentries were?
 

Furniture

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Sounds like it was a failure of the locals to do their job... I sailed before the NST was a thing(their trial run in Busan was my last trip), we counted on the local police or military to secure the jetty before we came alongside.
 

TacticalTea

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Sounds like it was a failure of the locals to do their job... I sailed before the NST was a thing(their trial run in Busan was my last trip), we counted on the local police or military to secure the jetty before we came alongside.
Yep. Liaising with local LE seems to be something NST takes to heart. It's possible a less FP-aware Ops department/Command may have left that on the backburner.

I won't go too far on the armchair quarterbacking here, but at a time where guerrilla tactics are openly shared in support of Ukraine, that ball of paint could've easily been a more deadly weapon. What then?
 
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Furniture

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Yep. Liaising with local LE seems to be something NST takes to heart. It's possible a less FP-aware Ops department/Command may have left that on the backburner.

I won't go too far on the armchair quarterbacking here, but at a time where guerrilla tactics are openly shared in support of Ukraine, that ball of paint could've been a more deadly weapon. What then?
My experience is a few years old now, but the RCN didn't take FP seriously at all when I was sailing.

It was always a bit soul crushing to see the UDS carrying their rifle around at the shoulder arms, apparently terrified of the thing... :ROFLMAO:
 

TacticalTea

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My experience is a few years old now, but the RCN didn't take FP seriously at all when I was sailing.

It was always a bit soul crushing to see the UDS carrying their rifle around at the shoulder arms, apparently terrified of the thing... :ROFLMAO:
The RCN as a whole might be a bit more FP-aware, what with standing up NST and NTOG and reimagining the NBPs, but we've still got a ways to go.

Sailors outside of those three FP organizations are generally not briefed and trained properly on the matter. Superiors often rely on rumours as source materiel.
 

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If the RCN were smart the Integral Boarding Party would do all alongside and underway force protection.

This would excuse them from other duties but then again, why are we even training them if we aren't going to employ them?
 

dimsum

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My question is why there isn't an NST element there? Wasn't that the whole point of that organization?
 

TacticalTea

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My question is why there isn't an NST element there? Wasn't that the whole point of that organization?
Resources are limited. Naturally, they can't deploy to every Port Visit, so some decisions have to be made. Why wasn't it deployed to this port if it had been 2 years ago? I don't know.

Something I also do not know the answer to: if ships are deployed to actually risky ports, will CJOC send NST over or would: 1. the GC rather not risk Reservists' lives, and 2. Command teams rather trust their own ship's company to provide security for itself?

I only did a short stint with NST years ago, so perhaps those questions have been answered, I'm sadly not up to date. What I do know is that not much was done during the two years of COVID due to obvious (though some may describe as questionable) reasons, so I doubt that much has evolved in that timeframe.
 

PuckChaser

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If the RCN were smart the Integral Boarding Party would do all alongside and underway force protection.

This would excuse them from other duties but then again, why are we even training them if we aren't going to employ them?
You need a place to keep all the people with Norse Pagan chits...
 

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The RCN as a whole might be a bit more FP-aware, what with standing up NST and NTOG and reimagining the NBPs, but we've still got a ways to go.

Sailors outside of those three FP organizations are generally not briefed and trained properly on the matter. Superiors often rely on rumours as source materiel.

Resources are limited. Naturally, they can't deploy to every Port Visit, so some decisions have to be made. Why wasn't it deployed to this port if it had been 2 years ago? I don't know.

Something I also do not know the answer to: if ships are deployed to actually risky ports, will CJOC send NST over or would: 1. the GC rather not risk Reservists' lives, and 2. Command teams rather trust their own ship's company to provide security for itself?

I only did a short stint with NST years ago, so perhaps those questions have been answered, I'm sadly not up to date. What I do know is that not much was done during the two years of COVID due to obvious (though some may describe as questionable) reasons, so I doubt that much has evolved in that timeframe.
Interestingly one of NTOGs stated missions is "enhanced force protection".

Sounds like a great job for them with possible Russian meddling in our potential Ports of Call.
 

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Why would a ship sail without a dedicated Security Team? I really don't get the idea that is should be a secondary duty - given you might need to be doing a slew of different things all at once on a ship.
 

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Yeah I was thinking fight the ship might be a bit of a priority - but I never was in the Navy :sneaky:
Well anyone who has a schmick about that is busy selling themselves out to Ambery or Seagull Maritime at the moment 🤣

Especially with the sudden exodus of cheap Ukrainian and other Eastern European SSOs to "greener" or muddier pastures.
 

TacticalTea

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Why would a ship sail without a dedicated Security Team? I really don't get the idea that is should be a secondary duty - given you might need to be doing a slew of different things all at once on a ship.
As I alluded to in the Ukraine thread a week ago, the RCN is largely a diplomatic tool and more concerned about pleasing the international community and the Canadian public. (see how, similarly, we are overextended operationally because it is politically beneficial, to the detriment of the entire FG org and people's mental health)

Neither the military towards the Canadian public nor Canada towards international peers have the leverage to go in ''guns blazing'' wherever we go, as the US would. We have to be gentle and avoid any sort of incident, otherwise we risk UNSC votes (that we don't get anyway, hah!), favourable trade negotiations, and DND funding.

The US is influential enough not to be bothered as much by those considerations and the NDAA will be passed every year, rain or shine, with bipartisan support.

Perhaps (read ''God, please, I can't bear seeing my people unnecessarily in harm's way for bullshit politics anymore, so hopefully'') the current geopolitical situation will shift global and domestic views and permit a change in posture.
 

KevinB

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Not to worry. They'll hold a BOI and in a year or two there'll be a recommendation or two to ponder.

😉
Sadly I suspect you are correct.
Way back when the putting Infantry onto the ships for that role - was simply so they didn't have a secondary job.
Sure they could learn some Damage Control and have that as a secondary duty - which to me makes sense...
The primary role of the Security Force needs to be security, or they will often find themselves with competing tasks.
 

KevinB

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As I alluded to in the Ukraine thread a week ago, the RCN is largely a diplomatic tool and more concerned about pleasing the international community and the Canadian public.

Neither the military towards the Canadian public nor Canada towards international peers have the leverage to go in ''guns blazing'' wherever we go, as the US would. We have to be gentle and avoid any sort of incident, otherwise we risk UNSC votes (that we don't get anyway, hah!), favourable trade negotiations, and DND funding.

The US is influential enough not to be bothered as much by those considerations and the NDAA will be passed every year, rain or shine, with bipartisan support.

Perhaps (read ''God, please, I can't bear seeing my people unnecessarily in harm's way for bullshit politics anymore, so hopefully'') the current geopolitical situation will shift global and domestic views and permit a change in posture.
TO me that is simply a mentality fail from the top of the CRCN on down - it is a warship, not a commerce vessel - while it may have secondary duties - the primary role is a warship...
 
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