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Informing the Army’s Future Structure

According to all the Canadian experts (Well those that matter anyway) the tank is obsolete in the Canadian context.
This seems to be the overall defence strategy that Canadian leadership follows which is "defence by being inconspicuous". The hope that if you don't threaten anyone, they will leave you alone. That policy becomes more and more difficult as the natural resources of the North (which during the age of various dinosaurs was a lovely temperate sea absolutely perfect for laying down hydrocarbon resources) become ever more accessible through modern technology.

Tanks matter in a European and NATO context. By not being there to deter aggression against NATO, we invite our allies asking "what have you done for us lately, Canada?" when Russian or Chinese research vessels start explorations in what we claim as our domain.

To say that tanks do not matter in a Canadian context is simplistic but seems to be perfectly matched to our present simplistic foreign policy.

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Tanks are good at moving firepower and support close to the fight, and rather quickly.

ATGM crews have maneuverability in the urban environment, but getting fire and support cross country requires wheels/rotors to get them to the fight. If your Anti-Armour option is moving those ATGM crews by truck ot helicopter, you have firepower moving in soft targets.

Tanks are great in large, vast, open areas.... like ...you know... most of the country outside of the coastal areas and urban areas. Much of Eastern/South Western Ontario is on par with Ukraine for farmland and open space. Prairies moreover. To think Canada doesn't need Tanks is to think we can defend our country from its capital.
 
Tanks are great in large, vast, open areas.... like ...you know... most of the country outside of the coastal areas and urban areas. Much of Eastern/South Western Ontario is on par with Ukraine for farmland and open space. Prairies moreover. To think Canada doesn't need Tanks is to think we can defend our country from its capital.

Tanks are also great in urban areas and close terrain. Data indicates that friendly force casualties decline significantly when operating in urban terrain with tanks.
 
Tanks are also great in urban areas and close terrain. Data indicates that friendly force casualties decline significantly when operating in urban terrain with tanks.
That too. True combined arms operations are a beautiful situation.

Whatever the hell it is the Russians are doing.... not so much
 
Tanks are also great in urban areas and close terrain. Data indicates that friendly force casualties decline significantly when operating in urban terrain with tanks.
Everyone shoots at tanks. It keeps them from shooting at me - which is good.

Based on my own experiences people often shoot a lot of utterly useless systems at tanks - but heck if that MG is shooting at a tank - it’s not shooting at folks with less armor.
 
Part of the problem is we are a infantry-centric army. And we've developed a rather bizarre attitude towards armour
Strangely enough it strikes me that attitude is the same as the Israeli armoured force during the early part of the 73' war.
 
Part of the problem is we are a infantry-centric cost shy army. And we've developed a rather bizarre attitude towards armour
Strangely enough it strikes me that attitude is the same as the Israeli armoured force during the early part of the 73' war.

I think I FTFY.

Infantry is cheaper than tanks, GBAD, MLRS, modern logistics vehicles and a host of other 'important to the survival of a modern Army' things, so it's easier to argue for keeping them around.
 
I think I FTFY.

Infantry is cheaper than tanks, GBAD, MLRS, modern logistics vehicles and a host of other 'important to the survival of a modern Army' things, so it's easier to argue for keeping them around.
Interesting thought.

I would think that the cost of producing a given armoured vehicle (whether tank or IFV or MLRS, or SP) ought not to vary very much albeit that development costs and production costs etc would - based on the scale of production. Of course in reality they do but still a battalion of tanks do not cost significantly more than a battalion of IFVs (look at AJAX for example). On the other hand there are costs for annual upkeep which have to be factored in as well and here, personnel numbers play a role. Tanks generally have lower manning than infantry. The Congressional Budget Office has a handy tool for comparing costs of different establishments (which are all-in costs).

What's really interesting to note is that first of all an ABCT (at 4,040) has less people in it than an SBCT (4,680) and an IBCT (4,560) meaning there is almost a full battalion's worth of annual salaries that do not need paying in an ABCT. There are more annual costs in other fields though (maintenance, fuel, ammunition) because at the end of the day, the overall annual all-in costs for an ABCT, SBCT and IBCT are virtually identical ($3.5 billion, $3.4 billion and $3.2 billion - remember these are all-up O&M costs including share of HQs, infrastructure, civilian workforce etc, etc). What's key here is that an ABCT costs about the same every year as an SBCT or IBCT.

There is obviously a difference for an up front capital cost as between the three (especially the IBCT which is very equipment light) but its really the continuing annual costs which show that once acquired it doesn't matter what type of brigade you have cost wise.

It's also very interesting to note that National Guard brigades of each type have annual recurring costs of $1.0; $0.9; and $0.9 billion respectively. Less than a third of that of their Active Army counterparts.

The overall conclusion that I take away from all this is that cost, especially annual recurring costs, should never be a factor in deciding force structure. First and foremost should be the national defence strategy. What purpose is the force to fulfill in peacetime and the various potential wartime roles? This will determine whether you need an infantry-centric, mech infantry-centric or armour centric-force.

Further it should dictate what portion of the force you should allocate to a full-time and a part-time force. For me the logical conclusion is that in peacetime we need a light, rapidly deployable infantry centric force with some mech infantry while for wartime we should concentrate on a heavy force with all the necessary enablers much of which should be a properly organized, trained and equipped part-time force.

But I've said that before. The above numbers merely explain why.

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US Army has released the TOET for the M-SHORAD battalions.

40x Stryker M-SHORAD
20x Stryker (or MRAP) ISC & AMB (total)
100x JLTV (or HMMWV)
75x Support Vehicles and Trailers
550x Gunners

4 Battalions to be fielded

Training will also require installations to have protected airspace, to a minimum of 25,000-30,000 feet above ground level, according to the assessment. Live fire training will include Stinger and Longbow Hellfire missiles shooting down unmanned aerial vehicles.

Each battalion will require approximately 19.6 acres worth of dedicated facilities, including headquarters, maintenance facilities, parking, housing and dining, according to the assessment.


Maneuver-Short Range Air Defense (M-SHORAD) is an Air Defense Artillery capability which moves and maneuvers in direct support of Brigade Combat Teams (BCT) to destroy, neutralize or deter low altitude aerial threats, including Group 3 UAS, rotary wing and fixed wing aircraft.


That still leaves the ground elements vulnerable to attack by swarms of Group 2 and 1 UAS.

UAS GroupMaximum weight
(lb) (MGTOW)
Nominal operating
altitude (ft)
Speed (kn)Representative UAS
Group 10–20< 1,200 AGL100RQ-11 Raven, WASP, Puma, Drone40, Switchblade 300, Coyote, Hero-120,
Group 221–55< 3,500 AGL< 250ScanEagle, Flexrotor, SIC5, Switchblade 600, Spike N-LOS
Group 3< 1,320< FL 18,000V-BAT, RQ-7B Shadow, RQ-21 Blackjack, Navmar RQ-23 Tigershark, Arcturus-UAV Jump 20, Arcturus T-20, SIC25, Resolute ISR Resolute Eagle, Vanilla,
Group 4> 1,320Any airspeedMQ-8B Fire Scout, MQ-1A/B Predator, MQ-1C Gray Eagle
Group 5> FL 18,000MQ-9 Reaper, RQ-4 Global Hawk, MQ-4C Triton
 
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US Army has released the TOET for the M-SHORAD battalions.
Interesting. Thanks for that.

I should note that so far only the 5-4 AD has converted from Avenger to SHORAD. All the other Active Army AD Battalions with Avenger (there are 5 of them) are mixed Avenger and Patriot or C-RAM battalions. There are also 7 ARNG pure Avenger battalions.

If the Army is going to convert three more battalions it will be interesting to see which ones it will be. Like us, new toys frequently end up in Active Army hands whether they really need to be there or not.

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Sometimes I honestly believe I could improve army efficiency by a good 75-80 percent.
The trick is to get the various regimental associations into the same room and make it look like an accident.
And some days I am only partially joking......it doesn't have to look like an accident..
We really are our own worst enemy.
You wouldn't have to make it look like an accident. Just tell them they get to decide which one of the Regiments are being disbanded or combined. Walk away.

To think Canada doesn't need Tanks is to think we can defend our country from its capital.
Army combat operations are for the away game only (baring a few specific capabilities that happen to fall under the army). The defense of Canada is a cyber, space, air and naval war. This means any discussion of army reorganization and equipment should focus entirely on that reality. In this case, we need tanks because the away game needs tanks to be relevant.

How to work better with and integrate into a US/NATO division, as well as bringing all the self-sufficient capabilities to a Brigade so we are self-reliant/plug and play, should be the focus. It's within our grasp, is basically our doctrine, and aligns with the US doctrine (more or less) as well.
 
How to work better with and integrate into a US/NATO division, as well as bringing all the self-sufficient capabilities to a Brigade so we are self-reliant/plug and play, should be the focus. It's within our grasp, is basically our doctrine, and aligns with the US doctrine (more or less) as well.

I’m of the opinion that 1 CMBG should be changed into an ABCT - and ‘twinned’ to a US Corps ( III or V) playing with them as much as possible.

2 CMBG should become a Light Bde and work with XVIII Airborne Corps.

5 ideally would become a SBCT or probably more practically setup along a USMC Organization (that would require a significant RCAF and RCN buy in however).
 
I’m of the opinion that 1 CMBG should be changed into an ABCT - and ‘twinned’ to a US Corps ( III or V) playing with them as much as possible.

2 CMBG should become a Light Bde and work with XVIII Airborne Corps.
We still need our own independent military as our own agent. There's nothing wrong with exercises etc... but you can only go so far before US planners will just start assuming our unit will deploy with theirs, or that we become to reliant on each other instead of ourselves. Teamwork is good but we need to do our own thing for our own soverignty.

5 ideally would become a SBCT or probably more practically setup along a USMC Organization (that would require a significant RCAF and RCN buy in however).

It's not RCN buy-in that's needed. It's CA buy-in. The death of the Big Honking Ship was because of the army. The RCN floated the idea and was fully on board (puns intended) but the army was never really interested. The only way this happens is if there is either a strong strategic imperative (there isn't), political pressure (nothing there) or that the Navy is allowed to create and fund their own Marine Commando (which they won't). Only SOF cares and JSS/ CSC/ AOPS has already been designed to accommodate them to an extent.
 
I’m of the opinion that 1 CMBG should be changed into an ABCT - and ‘twinned’ to a US Corps ( III or V) playing with them as much as possible.

2 CMBG should become a Light Bde and work with XVIII Airborne Corps.

5 ideally would become a SBCT or probably more practically setup along a USMC Organization (that would require a significant RCAF and RCN buy in however).


Or, you could form 1 CMBG into an ABCT-ish Brigade of Combined Arms Battalions with the kit available, and 5 CMBG become a SBCT-ish Brigade of Motorized Infantry equipped with the LAV 6.0s. And combine them to create an Armoured Division of the the 1944 pattern.

1654522750875.png
By Noclador - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, File:Great Britain World War II Armoured Division Structure 1944.png - Wikimedia Commons

That employs 8 of the 12 RCAC and RCIC regular force units. That still leaves 4 units for the 2 CMBG Light force with a Defence of North America focus but robust enough to accept foreign deployments as a QRF.
 
Or, you could form 1 CMBG into an ABCT-ish Brigade of Combined Arms Battalions with the kit available, and 5 CMBG become a SBCT-ish Brigade of Motorized Infantry equipped with the LAV 6.0s. And combine them to create an Armoured Division of the the 1944 pattern.

View attachment 71220
By Noclador - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, File:Great Britain World War II Armoured Division Structure 1944.png - Wikimedia Commons

That employs 8 of the 12 RCAC and RCIC regular force units. That still leaves 4 units for the 2 CMBG Light force with a Defence of North America focus but robust enough to accept foreign deployments as a QRF.

1 CMBG - RCD, LdSH(RC), 12RBC, 1 PPCLI
5 CMBG - 1,2,3 R22eR
Div Recce and MG Coy - 2 PPCLI
DAG - 1 RCHA, 5 RALC, 4GS RCA

2 CMBG - 1,2,3 RCR, 3 PPCLI, 2 RCHA.

The Division focuses on Europe and working with JEF in NATO

2 CMBG focuses on North America and working with the RCAF, CJOC, the Joint Task Forces, NORAD and Northcom in conjunction with 11th Abn Div in Alaska.


NB: And I only include the nameplates to demonstrate that we have an adequate number of HQs. I don't really care which regiment, battalion, squadron or company goes where or what their detailed role or organization is.
 
With respect to Force 2025 Artillery.

The Ukrainians have apparently adopted a regiment of 18 Caesar L52 155mms, trained crews in two weeks and started employing the first battery of 6 guns on Counter-Battery operations. They seem to be operating in troops of 3 and engaging in shoot-and-scoot activities.

 
Further it should dictate what portion of the force you should allocate to a full-time and a part-time force. For me the logical conclusion is that in peacetime we need a light, rapidly deployable infantry centric force with some mech infantry while for wartime we should concentrate on a heavy force with all the necessary enablers much of which should be a properly organized, trained and equipped part-time force.
And here's the dilemma in which the Canadian Army finds itself:

Logical Structure:
  • Full-time, rapidly deployable Light Forces
  • Largely Part-time, wartime deployable Heavy Forces

Current Structure:
  • Full-time Heavy AND Light Forces.
  • Part-time force that lacks the equipment, technical support, training structure/capability, geographic concentration of training areas and support bases to generate wartime Heavy forces without major fundamental changes to the Reserve (and Reg Force) systems, but can potentially generate Light forces (with less radical changes) but don't have the ability to rapidly deploy by their nature of being Part-time.

I don't think that there are really any easy solutions to the situation unfortunately. A couple possible courses of action are:
  • Status Quo. Tinker with the Reg Force structure (asymmetric Brigades) to make them more efficient. Reserves remain primarily a source of individual augmentees and troops for domestic aid to civil powers efforts.
  • Undertake a fundamental restructuring of the Reserve system to create a part-time force that is capable of generating Heavy forces and enablers during wartime. Would have to include legislative and structural changes, equipment investment, possibly new training areas and Reg Force support facilities closer to Reserve unit concentrations, etc.
  • Maintain a full-time Heavy Brigade capability and focus the Reserves on expansion of our Light forces from a Brigade perhaps to a Division during wartime. May require less dramatic structural changes and equipment purchases than restructuring for a Heavy force focused Reserves but would still require significant work to make it happen (including dealing with training/support facility issues).
  • Do a complete rethink on what kind of forces we can offer to our allies during a major conflict. Does our contribution have to be a Heavy/Medium/Light Brigade Group? Could we instead focus on generating more specialized units (Artillery or SHORAD Brigades, etc.) instead which may possibly be easier to generate with our current Reserve structure?

Anything other than Option 1 (status quo with tinkering) will require much more imagination, effort and money than the Army is likely willing to spend.
 
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