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Fish fight left a stench

We were on NATO and a crew member from my ship, somebody supposedly flipped the bird to the Spanish captain as we sailed passed.

It didnt go over well, us and the Spanish kinda avoided each other.

Like Haitian Vacation 95, they positioned a Type 22(UK) and Argentine Meko in the same AOR, the Argentines sailed home due to "National Commitments"
 
The Spanish destroyer, (which in fact is a rather
small vessel) is shown tied up at a jetty near the Esso fuel tanks in Saint John's Harbour NF.

Link please.
 
Link is Carleton University - EU "The Turbot War" which provides quite a bit of information
as well as the photograph of the Spanish "destroyer" at the Saint John's Esso jetty (where
the vessel, flying the Spanish flag of course, probably went for fuel) - the crises in my opinion
was created by Brian Tobin and his ambitions (before Chretien got pissed off with him). There
is an enormous amount of information about the North West Atlantic Fishery on several public sites
(Government of Canada, EU, UK, Spain, Portugal, etc.) plus private sector comments. NS
fishermen would not have complained - would have fished their quotas (or more) and sold the
catch to the Spaniards (as they have to the Russians for years) Regards, MacLeod
 
I, for one, am glad we acted. It caught the Spanish (and the rest of the world for that matter) of guard and showed our resolve to protect our national rescources. I feel its something we will have to do more and more of in the coming years and backing down is tanatamount of allowing another country take up the burden to defending your soverignity.
 
Ex-Dragoon said:
......and backing down is tanatamount of allowing another country take up the burden to defending your soverignity.

Seems to me we already do that!
 
jmacleod, it sounds like your taking a potshot at Newfoundland and it's fishermen "NS
fishermen would not have complained - would have fished their quotas (or more) and sold the
catch to the Spaniards" I'm sure you understand the effect overfishing had on the economy of Newfoundland and Nova Scotia and a great portion of Canada for that matter. If you think that it was just some political whohooing by the government of Newfoundland then I suggest you have a look at this article http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/backgrou/1995/hq-ac04_e.htm  It details alot of where the Spanish Factory Trawlers were previously expelled from. The effect that overfishing and the eventual collapse of the Northern Cod stocks had on Newfoundland would be equivalent to closing every manufacturing plant in Ontario. A whole lifestyle, a generation or two has been lost as a result. It was not an overreaction to anything.
 
Nice to see that someone had the stones to fire a shot to backup National Policy. Violence isn't always the answer, but having a bigger stick to whack the less compliant party is always advantageous. Having the stick and the will to whack with it, is important too. I don't like that other countries push us around so easily. So good on those who participated. Their professionalism probably saved us the cost of a mini conflict.
 
My father was a Marine Engineer. He and his Boston based partners owned steel-hulled ocean going
trawlers in the 60's and early 70's. These were men who spent many years in the fish harvesting
and processing industries. I remember that they often discussed the serious decline in cod stocks
on the North West Atlantic, caused by overfishing, mostly by Russian and Eastern European
trawlers, which were very large ships, capable of catches much beyond a 12 man trawler.Their
catches were frozen on board and stored. Many Canadian fishermen sold their quotas several times
over at sea to the big Russian ships, that is why Canada insisted on fisheries inspection teams, which
were contracted to private companies, based in Halifax and Saint John's NF. But by 1995, the almost
total destruction of the Canadian Coast Guard CCG by Fisheries and Oceans Canada, plus the complexities
of EU control of much of the international quotas, led to what is described by the EU Fisheries
Commission in November 2003, to define cod stocks at "catastrophic levels". But the action by Tobin
as described by Blizzard was contrived, and the wrong target was focused. I think that Chretien was
unaware that Spain was and is a prominent member of NATO, and once aware, told Tobin to back off
-which he did. MacLeod
 
I suspect no had bothered to tell Brian Tobin just how big the Spanish military was.And if they got sufficiently pissed enough could've reduced St John to a smoking hole in the ground!
You really have to wonder what our leaders use for brains sometimes ::)
 
How the hell would they have made it to St John's in order to reduce it to a smoking hole?

Acorn
 
GK .Dundas said:
I suspect no had bothered to tell Brian Tobin just how big the Spanish military was.And if they got sufficiently pissed enough could've reduced St John to a smoking hole in the ground!
You really have to wonder what our leaders use for brains sometimes ::)

I suspect no one told you that St.John's is part of Canada and any attack it would constitute an attack on Canada thus bringing our naval forces et al into the fight. Think before typing my friend, I'm a very proud Newfoundlander and will defend any suggestions at our stupidity  :mad:
 
Island Ryhno said:
I suspect no one told you that St.John's is part of Canada and any attack it would constitute an attack on Canada thus bringing our naval forces et al into the fight. Think before typing my friend, I'm a very proud Newfoundlander and will defend any suggestions at our stupidity   :mad:
   My point and I suspect it was very poorly made was that we could have ended up in a shooting war . We were very fortunate that tempers were kept by all sides.Furthermore I'm not accusing you of stupidity,I'm accusing the then political masters of our country of stupidity.
Brinkmanship is a mugs game especially if you lack the military muscle to bring   the fight to your opponents doorstep. simply put they could, we could' nt.
I'm sorry if I offended you ,that was never my intent.
 
Can you elaborate exactly how the Spanish were going to "bring the fight to us"? While I don't imagine we have a great deal of fore projection to bring to bear on them, I still have enough faith in our Navy and Air force to  defend our own territorial waters/air.
 
Fleet versus fleet, they could have embarrassed us, or worse.  I have the greatest respect for our Sailors and Airmen, but that would have been the equivalent of my Leopard C1 against a T-72 'Dolly Parton' back in the bad old days.  Not a happy ending.

(Hence the Baileys in the 39 rd bin!)

Tom
 
Wow. But we have local air superiority no?

the equivalent of my Leopard C1 against a T-72 'Dolly Parton' back in the bad old days.  Not a happy ending.

(Hence the Baileys in the 39 rd bin!)

???
 
you ever seen a Newfie mad, if i was the Spanish i would not have pushed the subject any further. They may have a bigger Navy and such but the cost and ability for them to sail that far would have put a huge strain on their forces. I think they would have lost interest after their first ship was sunk by a Canadian sub, or one of those angry Newfie fishermen. Glad it didnt esculate beyond where it did, things would have been ugly. but the bottom line is Canada was right to stick up for itself with the use of Military force. and i only wish we would do it more. This is my opinion and not meant to offend anyone.
 
TCBF are you in the navy.  If not perhaps one of our naval members could shed light on this.  That said having the battlefield in your own backyard does provide key advantages.
 
CTD said:
you ever seen a Newfie mad,

Yes...My father is from the Rock. That doesn't mean that he can sink a Spanish naval vessal by himself. being proud of our heratige is one thing...Stupid and idle boasting can only cause trouble in the long run.


if i was the Spanish i would not have pushed the subject any further. They may have a bigger Navy and such but the cost and ability for them to sail that far would have put a huge strain on their forces. I think they would have lost interest after their first ship was sunk by a Canadian sub, or one of those angry Newfie fishermen.
And what sort of international incident do you think it would have caused if one of our subs had whacked a fishing boat from a foreign nation?!


Glad it didnt esculate beyond where it did, things would have been ugly. but the bottom line is Canada was right to stick up for itself with the use of Military force. and i only wish we would do it more. This is my opinion and not meant to offend anyone.

Military force is great...when used properly and with wisdom...As are Newfoundland fishermen. :cdn:
 
"TCBF are you in the navy.   If not perhaps one of our naval members could shed light on this.   That said having the battlefield in your own backyard does provide key advantages."

I am a Soldier, not a Sailor, certainly not an expert in things maritime, and I concur we would have had a geographical advantage.   Just as the Argies did against the Brits (a near run thing).

I am more than willing to be educated on this.

Britney: The   T-72A, started coming off the production line in 1978,more or less the same time as our Leopard C1s.   It had a laser rangefinder, metal side skirts and new laminate frontal turret armour.The bumps either side of the main armament caused by the new armour led to the Yanks nicknaming it the Dolly Parton.   It's dart could go through a Leopard C1, front to back, at 1000m, while our 'Warshots' at the time would not penetrate the turret of the T-72A.   A bottle of Baileys   (used only as coffee whitener) wrapped in two sandbags fit perfectley in one of the ammo storage tubes in the Leo hull (the 39 rd bin).   If you drank enough whitened coffee, you could forget about the Dolly Parton, and the T-64, and the T-80U, and the...

Tom
 
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