Federal Carbon Tax

[Remius]

Time is a major factor for me, driving to work costs me about $5-7 more a day, but saves me at least an hour total on the commute. That hour adds up, plus I can stop along the way and pick up items or even go a round about route and  get those items, something that would add hours to my commute, not minutes. So yes I get punished for valuing time over carbon.

And this is the issue.  Where I live the local government pushes the public transit and bike paths.  Time is the big issue.  A 15 min car ride translates into a an hour and half bus ride.  A carbon tax won't change my mind at all about using my car. 

It works for those centered in the city's central core but forget it outside of that.  Taking the bus isn't worth the three hours I'd lose. 

 

[kev994]

And this is the issue.  Where I live the local government pushes the public transit and bike paths.  Time is the big issue.  A 15 min car ride translates into a an hour and half bus ride.  A carbon tax won't change my mind at all about using my car. 

It works for those centered in the city's central core but forget it outside of that.  Taking the bus isn't worth the three hours I'd lose.

But maybe the next time you buy a car the fuel consumption will be a bigger concern because of the increase in fuel price. The assumption is that this will be the case for at least some people and  the carbon tax will have done what it was meant to do.

 

[Furniture]

But maybe the next time you buy a car the fuel consumption will be a bigger concern because of the increase in fuel price. The assumption is that this will be the case for at least some people and  the carbon tax will have done what it was meant to do.

If it is meant to make us all poorer, and have more restricted lifestyle it will be mission accomplished. Won't save the environment, but that appears to be secondary to making more tax money to buy votes.

When the industries and countries contributing far more to pollution are exempted from a tax like this it has no hope of doing anything for the environment. All it will do is allow our hopefully future former PM  to fly off to all corners of the world and proclaim how "green" we are. Of course Canadians will be green, with envy at what our neighbours ot the south can afford to do because they won't be saddled with a massive tax imposed for political posturing.

 

[Edward Campbell]

But maybe the next time you buy a car the fuel consumption will be a bigger concern because of the increase in fuel price. The assumption is that this will be the case for at least some people and  the carbon tax will have done what it was meant to do.

This is the theory behind all so-called "sin taxes:" they aim to change our behaviours by making something we do more expensive and, therefore, less desirable.

The 1973 oil crisis gave this theory a lot of impetus ... the economy car segment of the market grew exponentially, to the advantage of Asian (then largely Japanese) auto makers and at the expense of the American 'big three' who were unprepared to meet that demand.

 

[Jarnhamar]

But maybe the next time you buy a car the fuel consumption will be a bigger concern because of the increase in fuel price.

Seems elitist.  Bigger cars are only for the rich and well off and will become even more of a status symbol.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Anybody out there that still thinks that this whole thing isn't just one big tax-grab?

:deadhorse:

My thoughts?

That's exactly what it is, in my mind.

Trudeau's shell game is just that, a shell game. Give us back more than we put in? A fallacy at best, a pyramid scheme at it's worst.

The CO2 emission argument is a mumbo jumbo boogy man. Pushing them down, lowering they call it, at the expense of vegetation and agriculture growth and oxygen output of the same. Canada's trees alone nearly put us in a carbon deficit, if not into the negative. We should be paid by the rest of the world for being the carbon scrubber that we are. Not paying others to ignore the protocol and increase carbon output on our dollar.

I think, the liberal government has wasted so many billions of our dollars, they've run out of cash to give away for their UN seat project and they need a fresh influx of cash to take care of their benefactors.

Our PM grew up privileged and without want. He has no concept of cash flow. It's just easier to keep reaching in the bag, without looking at how empty it's gotten.

Taxing us is easier than turning on the printing presses at the Canadian Mint.

I'm waiting for Ford to roll out his carbon plan. It will be wonderful, if he can exceed the liberal targets and goals, while not impinging on personal finances the way the liberal plan does.

If it does turn out to be better, will the liberals adopt it and drop their tax? They should, but I don't think they will. This tax was never designed to go fight climate change. It was designed to fleece the citizen and donate to liberal favoured financial giveaways.

The fact that the liberals have moved us to a trillion dollar deficit where our surpluses no longer cover that debt, has effectively bankrupted us.

Harper left a surplus and the best recovered world economy after the recession, and in three years under the liberals, we are now a red headed stepchild to the likes of Greece, that financial powerhouse of the EU  .

Taxes are the preferred means of liberals to collect free money They've taxed and spent us into the poor house, but they just keep taking.

 

[Will M]

As with all taxes they go into the big pot and later decisions aim the $$$. Chances are ZERO $$ will be effectively spent on a debatable idea of climate change, even the name is changed from global warming. There is some science to it, political spin to remove $$ from our pockets.
The truth is elusive and no time in the history of mankind did anyone spend $$ on trying to change living conditions long after the people would have passed on. What humans do best is adapt, but we react to fear the most and govt knows this and uses this to extract even more tax.

 

[a_majoor]

Since the idea of a "carbon tax" is to attack energy use, the changes in the rprice of energy could throw a real wrench into plans:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/crude’s-collapse-is-sending-shockwaves-across-global-markets/ar-BBPI3B4?ocid=spartanntp

The effects of the collapse of crude prices are different across the economy and around the world, but the primary effect will likely be to reduce the amount of tax the Feds can grab from consumers, at least in the short term.

 

[FJAG]

Well, the Federally mandated Carbon Tax goes into effect today in Ontario and three other provinces. All the press releases seem to indicate that on average one should get back slightly more in rebates so that one is a few dollars ahead by the end of the year. Not quite sure how this becomes an incentive to reduce my carbon footprint if in the end I get money back.

Is anyone else confused by the fact that the government is "forced to do this" because of the agreement we signed at the Paris accord but we don't seem bound to spend 2% of the GDP on defence notwithstanding that we signed up for that as well.

:stars:

 

[TechCrmn]

If the company can and does pass on the cost of the tax to the ultimate consumer then what incentive is there for the company to reduce emissions?

I believe the incentive for the company to reduce their emissions is exactly what you had hinted on further down in your post...Competitiveness. If the company raises the price of their products as a result of the Carbon Tax they are effectively making their products less competitive in a market of similar quality products. This in turn results in lower sales, and therefore lower revenues.

The real question is, does the cost of becoming greener and reducing Carbon Tax payments outweigh the potential loss of profits due to loss of competitiveness from outside markets?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

People are still talking like this tax has something to do with the climate. The climate change angle is a scam. All this does is make people afraid to drive and buy necessities. Forcing people into trying to economize their already cash strapped lives is not a climate solution. Infrastructure is. However, the grit climate plan has no contingency for that, in Canada. Although it seems we're financing everyone else's, we don't have finances for our own non existent plan. Nobody has a plan, because there is no plan that can be applied through these revenues. The Canada Pension fund has been raided to the tune of $2 Billion for his international giveaways.

We are going to tax you on pollution, then give you the money back? That doesn't even make sense to anyone with two brain cells to rub together. Any money not returned will be eaten up in administration..............or given away to third world countries. You will see no rebate.

On the subject of giveaways, where is the government site we can check that is supposed to be the due diligence on these projects. Who's accounting for the billions he's given away? What companies have won the contracts. Where is the oversight?

Without proof of project, his giveaways may well just be considered money laundering to some and on that line. How many contracts are the Clinton and Trudeau Foundations involved in. One only need to look at the Clinton Foundation Salvation of Haiti debacle to see where the money goes on these types of sponsored projects.

If the grits are still a party next tax season and somehow still in charge, all you'll get is lies on why you didn't get your rebate. Not working? We'll raise it (as already planned) but you'll still never get a rebate.

If Scheer gets in, it gets cancelled.

Others may see something I don't, but that's how I see this whole fiasco.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Well, the Federally mandated Carbon Tax goes into effect today in Ontario and three other provinces. All the press releases seem to indicate that on average one should get back slightly more in rebates so that one is a few dollars ahead by the end of the year ...

Not covered in the rebate is the price hike more than a few gas stations in said provinces kicked in mid last week.  In my area code, prices went from ~$1.19/litre to ~$1.32/liter -- today, I bought a bit of gas at $1.40/litre.

You'd think someone was thinking that folks would want to fuel up before some occasion, like a long weekend, or a carbon tax hike?  Not to mention the benefits of letting the government take all the blame for the price increase.

#TrustGasCompaniesLessThenPoliticians

 

[ModlrMike]

I'm sure nobody missed the symmetry of it being introduced on April fool's day.

 

[Remius]

My take is that the rebate was introduced to soften the blow.

The plan would be to repeal the rebate quietly after the next election.  (Assuming they can actually get elected again given the current state of affairs)

 

[Fishbone Jones]

There wont be any rebates. He already spent it all on climate infrastucture in other countries, or so he says. We've yet to see a single progress report or accounting for a single dollar of the billions he's given away.

He says you'll get a rebate, but I'm trying to remember the last time he told the truth.

It's not coming to me.

 

[Remius]

There wont be any rebates. He already spent it all on climate infrastucture in other countries, or so he says. We've yet to see a single progress report or accounting for a single dollar of the billions he's given away.

He says you'll get a rebate, but I'm trying to remember the last time he told the truth.

It's not coming to me.

Not if you didn’t claim.  Line 449 of your tax form.  It is not very obvious but it is there.  I plan on getting it while I can. 

 

[Cloud Cover]

Sask. CA says the tax is constitutional and legal. 3-2 decision. The dissenting decision is quite strong and persuasive. 

https://sasklawcourts.ca/images/documents/CA_2019SKCA040.pdf 

"[386] In conclusion, we agree that the power to tax involves the power to destroy and that the power to destroy may defeat and render useless the power to create (M’Culloch). Those words have great import in this reference because, as we have explained, the Provincial legislatures have the power to create their own GHG emissions strategies under ss. 92(2), (5), (10), (13) and (16) and s. 92A and s. 93 and Parliament has the power to tax under s. 91(3)."

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Sask. CA says the tax is constitutional and legal. 3-2 decision. The dissenting decision is quite strong and persuasive. 

https://sasklawcourts.ca/images/documents/CA_2019SKCA040.pdf 

"[386] In conclusion, we agree that the power to tax involves the power to destroy and that the power to destroy may defeat and render useless the power to create (M’Culloch). Those words have great import in this reference because, as we have explained, the Provincial legislatures have the power to create their own GHG emissions strategies under ss. 92(2), (5), (10), (13) and (16) and s. 92A and s. 93 and Parliament has the power to tax under s. 91(3)."

Off to the Supremes we go!!  :cheers:

 

[tomahawk6]

She also mentioned high unemployment as a concern. Would this be the result of the carbon tax ?

 

[brihard]

She also mentioned high unemployment as a concern. Would this be the result of the carbon tax ?

No, there's no solid data that I've seen to indicate any significant impact on the economy from the carbon tax. Without knowing where in Canada she's living and what her local economy is, it's hard to say. Quite frankly if she's calling in to Rush Limbaugh, I suspect she's not that attuned to actual economic data and is probably spitballing based on what she thinks is true.

Canada's unemployment rate is around 5.9% overall, which is pretty good. Some provinces have historically higher or historically lower rates of unemployment.

Alberta has seen a spike in unemployment in the past year as a result of the decline of their oil industry, but that's not really got anything to do with the carbon tax. Alberta sits on a lot of very expensive to extract oil, and the shale oil expansion in the U.S. has killed a lot of our oil producers that were producing at the margin of profitability, and which can no longer make money until oil prices go up again. A lot of wells are sitting there idle right now. While we do have problems with getting Alberta oil to market due to reticence to approve pipeline projects, the reality is even with ample pipeline capacity a lot of those companies would still have gone under. That's had a significant impact on the Alberta economy, and has pushed unemployment up to a for them very high 7.2%- though they also have by far the highest per capita income in Canada despite that.

Generally with regards to the carbon tax, I see a whole lot of people really failing to understand what it actually is and how it's supposed to work. When we file our individual/family taxes each year, each family gets a rebate that in the majority of cases will exceed what we as a family spent in increased costs due to carbon taxation. It's intended more to affect the decisions larger businesses and industries make, and to incentivize more environmentally friendly production and practices.