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Facial covering/courts-elections-etc. (merged)

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Just because a law is on the books does not mean it will be applied or applied in an impartial manner. I recall there was a lot of discussion advocating charging "The Blogging Tories" and the site webmasters under Canada's election laws, but I had never heard any similar discussion regarding Liberal, NDP or Green websites.

Fortunately for all our freedom and democracy, this blew over, but think of it as a warning......
 
This is just another example of certain groups constantly chipping away at the values of our society
and the aim of this particular group is to practice Sharia law here in Canada.I think they are winning
the battle,they certainly are in parts of Europe,.To me personally this comes as no surprise, I see
nowhere in the world that this group lives in peace with its neighbours.Tolerance is a wonderful idea
but I see very little of it from the abovementioned group particularly when they are in a position of
power. Tolerance can also very quickly become appeasement particularly in those parts of the population
that feel that their principles are more important than your wellbeing or safety.
I think I have made this as PC as possible and only those that identify with any of these groups could
take the slightest offence.
                              Regards

  PS A point I forgot to mention is that the head scarf ,in many cases,is not just a piece of cloth but
a political statement.

     
 
The subject is now "moot point"... the director general of elections has reversed himself - women will have to "uncloak" for the duration of the identification process... they can replace their veil AFTER they have voted.
 
I can understand the need for these people to keep their customs or religious beliefs, but this is not the middle east, this is Canada. And everyone must follow the same law of the land.

I have nothing against multiculturalism, but when these groups start making their own rules, I do have a problem with that. I think Canadians as a whole, are very tolerant people, to a point. But when these people try and pull stunts like this, it's going to far.

As to the politicians who gave in to these groups, Next time think before you put your foot into your big mouth!!
 
grunt.... there is nothing wrong with them asking to be allowed to do as they feel is proper.... hey, my 14 yr old does that all the time... he pushes the envelope until the envelope pushes back - and he toes the line for another little while.
 
Living in the GTA I see all kinds of examples of this topic. My conclusion is that immigrants should have the constitutional laws of Canada, equality for all including women, made clear to them when they are considering coming to this country. If you don't like our culture and laws then look elsewhere.
 
geo said:
grunt.... there is nothing wrong with them asking to be allowed to do as they feel is proper.... hey, my 14 yr old does that all the time... he pushes the envelope until the envelope pushes back - and he toes the line for another little while.


Yeah just try it from wherever they come from !, WHEN IN ROME DO AS THE ROMANS DO.
 
geo said:
The subject is now "moot point"... the director general of elections has reversed himself - women will have to "uncloak" for the duration of the identification process... they can replace their veil AFTER they have voted.

Perhaps he reads Army.ca.  ;D

The Charter protects "privacy".  It doesn't protect "anonymity".
 
Baden  Guy said:
Living in the GTA I see all kinds of examples of this topic. My conclusion is that immigrants should have the constitutional laws of Canada, equality for all including women, made clear to them when they are considering coming to this country. If you don't like our culture and laws then look elsewhere.

Uhhh... equality of women.... what does that specificaly have to do with wearing or not wearing a veil.  As a cultural garment, the veil is just something that they wear - you're the one making a political thing out of it.
 
geo said:
Uhhh... equality of women.... what does that specificaly have to do with wearing or not wearing a veil.  As a cultural garment, the veil is just something that they wear - you're the one making a political thing out of it.

  Ya I know but......Excuse my slip of venting but in the GTA it very common for one to go to a local mall and see a fully black burka clad woman? trailing at the prescribed distance behind her husband. It is not uncommon to observe the subservient position that women are in to their husbands in many immigrant families. In extreme cases this has led to violence against family members by the husband.

  The GTA is home to one of the largest, and growing, population of immigrants in Canada. It is a strain on communities to absorb such large concentrated numbers as they adapt to Canadian values and culture.

  The GTA is also home to the counter-terrorism investigation that led to the arrests of 17 people accused of plotting bombings of Toronto targets.

  So while the wearing of a veil is a cultural garment it is also a political statement in the eyes of many.




 
Ayup... then again, some would say that some catholic habbits are an issue.... forcing priests to be celibate... recruiting individuals who are, pontentialy, the most likely to have problems homosexuality & assaults upon choir boys & children looking to them for help of all sorts....
 
Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.
http://digital.montrealgazette.com/epaper/viewer.aspx
RULING DENOUNCED BY MUSLIM GROUP Controversy is unfounded, activist says – women remove their veils when necessary

‘IF I WAS WEARING A FACE VEIL … I’D BE SCARED TO VOTE’

RULING DENOUNCED BY MUSLIM GROUP Controversy is unfounded, activist says – women remove their veils when necessary

ANDY BLATCHFORD CANADIAN PRESS
A Muslim woman says the abrupt change to Quebec election rules for veiled voters will fuel a growing hostility toward Muslim women in the province.

“If I was wearing a face veil I likely wouldn’t go and vote on Monday,” Sarah Elgazzar of the Council on American-Islamic Relations Canada said in an interview yesterday. “I’d be scared.” A ruling by chief returning officer Marcel Blanchet on Friday means the face of anyone who votes Monday must be visible before a ballot is cast. That includes Muslim women, a scenario Elgazzar believes will keep many at home on election day.


Elgazzar said there has never been a problem with Muslim women who wear face veils.


These women regularly uncover their faces to identify themselves, and they never asked for any kind of accommodation,” she said. “This controversy kind of hunted them down and they didn’t have anything to do with it.”

The issue blew into the open a few days ago when the Journal de Montréal published a story saying Muslim women could vote tomorrow even if their faces were covered.


Blanchet then changed the rules after he received threatening phone calls and read reports that some citizens were planning to wear masks to the polls.
Elgazzar said Muslim women who wear veils show their faces when necessary, including visits to banks, crossing the border and when dealing with police.


She said the current Quebec environment is “very hostile” toward veiled Muslim women.

“People here have the impression that they (Muslim women) weren’t ready to comply and that they (Quebecers) have won some kind of victory,” she said of Blanchet’s ruling.

Elections Quebec spokesperson Denis Dion said all voters will have to show a piece of photo identification at polling stations. If they don’t have photo ID, they must provide two other pieces of ID and sign a document before being able to vote.

He said there is no guarantee female returning officers will be available to check the identification of veiled Muslim women at polling stations.

Debate over reasonable accommodation of racial, cultural and religious minorities has surfaced several times during the election campaign, with Action démocratique du Québec leader Mario Dumont often leading the charge. Dumont has been hoping to tap into the unease many small-c conservative Quebecers feel about how far the province goes to accommodate ethnic minorities.

(Farhat Mirza, 25, vice-president of the Council for the Advancement of Muslim Professionals in Montreal, posed with her niqab yesterday. Farhat, who normally only wears the niqab for religious activities, says she plans to wear it more in the future.)
Emphasis added)
 
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose  :)


http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=ffe271b7-ee0b-4732-b3d0-bea995de51d7
 
You're right...

But "we" are the ones who have created the tempest in the teapot..and
they, the veiled ladies are the ones who are left with the unpleasant possibility of being harrassed from here to kingdom come
 
Good point Geo.

It's funny that many here are presuming that the vast majority of Muslim women are forced to wear their headscarves, veils etc while here in Canada. Usually though, that is not the case, it is a choice they make based upon the depth of their religious faith.

I had many great conversations in Damascus with a Muslim woman with whom I became friends and whose home I had been invited into to dine. Although she was veiled (a sign of religious faith for them) outside the home, her conversations with me outside the home were...normal. Inside her home, the veil was removed (it was replaced for prayer calls) and the conversations remained...normal.

Her husband cooked, cleaned, made tea and awesome Turkish coffee, and geez they even had some PDAs while I was there!! Imagine that.

What I am trying to say, for those of you (not you Geo) so disposed, do not presume that because a woman chooses to wear a veil as an expression of faith in her God, that she is opressed and is treated as a second class citizen. There certainly are examples of oppresive governments, dictatorships and regimes which have made it this way in some nations, but do not presume that is the norm and the belief for the average Muslim; you would be wrong.
 
GEO
    I suppose you would have been on of those who would have argued that Hitler had every right
reoccupy the Rhineland in 1936,after all it was really part of Germany  wasn`t it.That is what has
come to be known as appeasement.This is not argument about an insignificant piece of cloth but a
much larger issue,whether immigrants can come come to Canada and establish parallel societies that
represent a threat to Canada .and its institutions.I respectfully suggest you drop your liberal blinkers
and take a look at the big picture. Please do not take this personally however.
                                     Regards
 
Time expired, I agree with you. I am a beleiver of drawing a line in the sand and saying there is a point.

I also don't have very PC views of every culture out there. I am not a racist or a bigot, but I have seen examples of racism by "other groups" but because they were not white christian males, it would not have been PC to call it out.

One example is a last summer when Israel was putting the boots to the Hezbollah, there was a rally in Toronto where people were screaming "death to the jews...". The individual screaming this out was slightly darker tone than a white person and appeared to be muslim (guessing by the clothing).

Imagine a white, catholic kid saying that?

'nuff said.

 
It's all spin, smoke and mirrors. Is this the first time that a vieled Muslim has tried to vote? No, it's not, and it wasn't a problem before the three political parties tried to sell their snake oil concern for votes. Elgazzar is using this for political gains just like all the other players at the table. This has nothing to do with anyone's rights, and all to do with personal and party agendas, gaining status and garnering votes. The Elections officials, with the original knee jerk reaction to the parties demands, and later reversal when confronted with law abiding citizens insisting on maintaining the status quo of no special treatment, are simply a catalyst.

"She said the current Quebec environment is “very hostile” toward veiled Muslim women."

"(Farhat Mirza, 25, vice-president of the Council for the Advancement of Muslim Professionals in Montreal, posed with her niqab yesterday. Farhat, who normally only wears the niqab for religious activities, says she plans to wear it more in the future.)"

Pretty well sums it up, if you ask me. Controversy, not conviction is the reasoning.


 
ArmyRick said:
One example is a last summer when Israel was putting the boots to the Hezbollah, there was a rally in Toronto where people were screaming "death to the jews...". The individual screaming this out was slightly darker tone than a white person and appeared to be muslim (guessing by the clothing).

Imagine a white, catholic kid saying that?

Umm,..............yes, as a matter of fact, I do.
http://nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm
 
Hey my blinkers are working just fine.

Parallel societies in Canada?  Uhhh.... where did you get that?
Aren't we the country that offers them the Freedom of speach & expression?
The right to practice their faith in peace?

-  this whole story blew up when christian (probably catholics) (definitively french) contacted the director of elections and told them that muslim women were going to vote with their scarves over their face AND was that all right with him?  because, if the ladies could do it, they were planning to wear balaclavas & masks themselves AND was that all right with him?

.... With respect to Hitler and his occupation of the Rhineland???
Hitler never occupied the Rhineland - it was always part of Germany.... methinks you are refering to the Sudetenland

http://sudetengermans.freeyellow.com/HISTORY.html

my history is doing pretty good... how'se yours?

(PS - nothing personal either CHIMO!)
 
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