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Eric, Prince Of Blackwater

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GAP

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I'm comforted...... ;D


actually, it suits
 

Jarnhamar

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Bellesophie said:
" Prince said. He did not mention the fact that his company was hired by the Canadian government to train its forces."

Can someone tell me why we would hire them to train our CF ?!?

Yes Talibans are killing our soldiers but so far we have fought with honnor and never we should slip lower then our enemy... I don't think the Canadian population would caution this.

After the Somalian incident, it took a lot of years to restore pride for our CF in the public eye. We shall not lose that again. Just look at what is going on in Parliament over the transfer of afghan prisoners. It's giving the CF a lot of bad press for nothing if you want my opinion on it.

So guys and girls keep doing the good job and walk out of there your head high and proud...

p.s. Read the book of General Hillier loved it !

Sophie

::)



I'd like to see Eric Prince and Eric Prydz fight.
 

Crockett

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dapaterson said:
Time to start a Facebook group: Vern for CDS!

I, for one, am looking forward to her new dress regs - with assless chaps an optional addition to mess kit.

;D
 

bdave

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dangerboy said:
You think that insulting a bunch of people is a good point?

Nope. I meant how his men are not covered by the Geneva Convention and that it doesn't really matter.

edit: Seems I was misunderstood.
I will clarify: It is my firm belief, and one shared by Mr. Prince, that the Taliban couldn't give a damn about the Geneva Convention. They (for the most part) are probably not aware that it even exists. If they are aware, they probably do not care. They fight by their own rules.
As such, the fact that Mr. Prince's men are not covered by the Geneva Convention is a moot point, because even if they were, it wouldn't matter.
Mr. Prince says this in a not very eloquent way, and I think it is a good point.
 

Marauder

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I'm pretty sure EVERY Western-born individual involved in the GWOT (soldier AND contractor alike) is savvy to the fact that the foe being hunted and fought could give less than a millionth of a fuck about the rules of treatment the Geneva Convention affords captured personnel. While the leftards and (spit) lawyers go on and on and on about the horrors of stress positions and sleep deprivation  ::) ::) ::) anyone with two brain cells is well aware of the "humane"  :blotto: treatment that AQ, the TB, and just plain old abos and indigs in the House Of Peace will afford a captured soldier OR contractor OR journo.

Pretty sure that after Fallujah, (http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/warriors/art/highriskp.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/warriors/contractors/highrisk.html&usg=__8dZyudne1Ck7fRfa6nQvxXTumYY=&h=178&w=300&sz=11&hl=en&start=8&itbs=1&tbnid=nmH1JrFSNhTtAM:&tbnh=69&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfallujah%2Bcontractors%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1) there wasn't a contractor out there, be they one of the frontline folks that Petamocto seems intent on denigrating, or even a straightforward KBR trucker, that went outside the gate while under the impression that these 7th century throwbacks would provide the slightest of mercies to a captured kaffir. If you bother to read the actual ‘article’ instead of the idiot editor’s ‘headline’, you’ll be able to gather that this is what Prince was driving at, NOT! that Blackwater, DynCorp, Triple Canopy, et al were themselves intent on ignoring the GC as it pertains to the treatment of captured enemy combatant personnel. In fact, I would bet hard cash that there are more stories of “filthy contractors’ rendering medical aid to injured muj who were trying their level best to kill those same contractors moments before, than you will of the ZERO stories you would ever dig up of imagined ‘atrocities’ against enemy combatant personal who ever so heroically hide behind civilian populations while ever so bravely firing a few rounds at GWOT troops before running like a punk.

Google Nick Berg, Jack Hensley, Olin Eugene Armstrong, Kenneth John Bigley, Kim Sun-il, Shosei Koda, and Georgi Lazov to see how Timbit’s heroic resistance fighters treat captured kaffir, especially the non-combatants these courageous anti-imperialist heroes  capture at such great risk to themselves. Use the Video function to get the best view of the heroes of the people bestowing loving kindness on those damn dirty kaffir who helped to kill the benighted indigs without ever carrying a weapon.

Fuck, why do I waste my time…
 

SeanNewman

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Marauder,

As has been brought up many, many times already, just because some enemy break the rules does not give us permission to.

Also, grouping all of our enemy in the same pile is also a mistake. 

Are we in the CF responsible for the Abu Gharib prison photos?  Of course we are (to them), because over there we all look the same.

We have more access to information than they do and we still lump them all in as Taliban even though it would be incredibly rare for your average Afghan insurgent to even imagine cutting someone's head off.  But yet we still paint them with the same brush.


 

vonGarvin

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I think that for clarification, the term “nasty” should be quantified. As well, I’m fairly certain that about 85%+ of Afghan Insurgents (excluding the foreign fighters) have never heard of Abu Ghraib. 

But the point is this: those of us who act counter to international law are held accountable.  Those of “them” who do not are not.

Also, it’s a point of group psychology for one to think of one’s own group as heterogeneous, and of the opposing group as homogeneous.  So, though I agree with you, Petamocto, that it’s not correct to label “them” all as “Taliban” (there are HiG, there are criminals, there are AQ, there is inter tribal and intra tribal rivalry, etc), it’s quite natural and common to do so.
 

Jarnhamar

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I think that for clarification, the term “nasty” should be quantified.


They ambush our convoys and patrols- a few hours later they crawl up to the FOBs under the guise of farmers and ask for dirty western infidel medicine.
We disrespect them by patching them up with our nasty  bandages and other life saving stuff then send them on their way. Oh by the way here is a ration pack, don't worry there's no pork in it because that would be offensive, have a good day.
 

SeanNewman

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Again though, you're bunching all of "them" together.  And even if "they" all did exactly what you just wrote, would you do any differently in their shoes?

If I were poor and my kids were starving, I would probably ask you for help if you had anything to hand out.  I would then also probably shoot at you if someone paid me a hundred dollars to do it.
 

armyvern

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Petamocto said:
Again though, you're bunching all of "them" together.  And even if "they" all did exactly what you just wrote, would you do any differently in their shoes?

If I were poor and my kids were starving, I would probably ask you for help if you had anything to hand out.  I would then also probably shoot at you if someone paid me a hundred dollars to do it.

...

Would you walk into the midst of innocent women and children, your own countrymen, (no "infidels" present) and blow yourself up and killing those innocents for any amount of money?

I wouldn't. And for me, that's the difference between a professional forces and a non-legit organization.
 

Jarnhamar

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Petamocto said:
Again though, you're bunching all of "them" together.  And even if "they" all did exactly what you just wrote, would you do any differently in their shoes?[/q
Yes brother.

If I were poor and my kids were starving, I would probably ask you for help if you had anything to hand out.  I would then also probably shoot at you if someone paid me a hundred dollars to do it.
I respect your honesty however I wouldn't make the same choices as you.
 

SeanNewman

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Vern,

99% of Afghans wouldn't walk into women and children and blow themselves up anymore than Canadians would.  Nice of you to paint all Muslims with the same brush, though.

Apollo,

Say the same thing when you have your own starving children in front of you who will die if you don't take action.

I would call everyone a liar who says they would hole onto their moral compass at that point.
 

armyvern

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Petamocto said:
Vern,

99% of Afghans wouldn't walk into women and children and blow themselves up anymore than Canadians would.  Nice of you to paint all Muslims with the same brush, though.

Nice of you to paint all "Afghans/Muslims" into my comment which obviously was about the Taliban and insurgents. It's not I painting "Afghans" or "Muslims" as such with one brush. Rather, it is you who chooses to take any comment "anti-Taliban" and claim that those who are "anti-Taliban" are painting ALL Aghans/Muslims as such terrorists, radicals and insurgents; that's bullshit - I've done no such thing.

Rather, do not paint me with the same brush as my enemy - for I am not the enemy. Do not compare a professional army who tries to verify legitimate each and every target to those enemy who routinely do not try to do such, and will deliberately target an innocent civilian populace (ie target hose "everyday average Afghans") routinely and innocently going about their business in the market etc only to find themselves blown up by their own "countrymen". We are not them and we are not comparable to them - despite how you are trying to wish us so.
 

Jarnhamar

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Petamocto said:
Apollo,

Say the same thing when you have your own starving children in front of you who will die if you don't take action.

I would call everyone a liar who says they would hole onto their moral compass at that point.

You may have a point. The "What would you do if your child was starving" argument is a very hard one to debate against.  I have a little girl and I wouldn't suggest anyone come between her saftey and me.


The kind of stuff you're talking about is like giving someone a blank cheque though.
Well I killed those people for money because I was starving to death.
Killed that other family because I needed money to buy drugs and I was going to die without my fix.

It's like you're saying we don't have a hope in Afghanistan because the locals will just always side with whoever pays them.
Not that the afghans are all about money
;D
 

vonGarvin

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Petamocto said:
Apollo,
Say the same thing when you have your own starving children in front of you who will die if you don't take action.
That is a bullshit example, as the Afghans aren't wanting for food.  It's a bullshit example in a bullshit attempt to rationalise irrational behaviour.

Now, "they" (the enemy) aren't all Taliban, HiG, Al Qaeda, whatever.  Who cares?  The focus is on our credibility to the populace, no?  Who cares what makes them tick.  Focus on what makes the people tick, and kill the enemy when they appear.  That is the easy part (killing the enemy), the hard part is focussing on the population and sorting through that mess, making the Afghan government credible, etc.
 

SeanNewman

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Apollo,

Agreed that it's a blank cheque of sorts, and I think we've established common ground of understanding.

Vern,

What you are missing are the parallels of what we are accusing our enemies with and what they accuse us of.

In western culture, the media focuses on specific examples like acid on the girls' faces and beheadings to make our opponents look like savages (so a lot of people see all of them like that).

However, where they are, what do you think they focus on in village and market chats?  Probably NATO driving through their fields and dropping bombs randomly from the sky murdering hundreds of innocent people...making us look like savages (so a lot of them see all of us like that).

We are exactly comparable to them, in that most of them just want to do their job and stay alive if at all possible, and hoping the whole thing ends soon so they can get back to their families.  Also, comparable in that the actions of a few make the actions of the many seems questionable.
 
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