Entrenching tools

[baboon6]

I did a search for these and couldn't find anything. What e-tool does the CF use and is it normally issued or sitting in the QM store?

 

[eliteboris]

I have always just used regular old shovles, and machetti for cutting away my arcs.

 

[chrisf]

I did a search for these and couldn't find anything. What e-tool does the CF use and is it normally issued or sitting in the QM store?

While there is an issued entrenching tool, and a pouch for mounting it on the webbing, it's seldom used.

 

[Infanteer]

Which is unfortunate, because everytime you read or see soldiers doing the real deal - they dig in.   Perhaps we're getting lazy in our training?

 

[chrisf]

Possibly, on the other hand, on most of the east coast at least, if you have anything less then a full size shovel and a pick, you're better off just finding a large rock to get behind, because you're going to be a long digging even a shell scrape with a e-tool.

 

[48Highlander]

The reason the e-tools are seldom used isn't because we rarely dig in but because we tend to use other tools when we dig in.  The e-tools is next to useless, especially in places like Meaford.

 

[Infanteer]

They work well in Wainwright....

However, in a real situation, expecting the CQ truck to mosey on up with your shovels and picks when you need to dig in for a hasty defence is wishful thinking, which is why I suspect it would be a good practice to have the E-Tool on the man if possible, even if it's stored in the ruck....

 

[dutchie]

I'm not sure about the rest of the country, but out here on the Wet Coast, we can't dig in anymore (except shell scrapes). Not in Chilliwack, anyhow. Our days of exs in Ft Lewis are long gone (9/11), which is a huge blow......huge training area and dig in anywhere you want.

Pitty really. When I first joined we dug in to some extent every ex for 3 years. I hated it at the time, but I now see the necessity as we have CORPORALS who haven't dug in to stage 6 (or whatever they call it now) since basic 3,4, or even 5 years ago! There's something basically wrong with that.

As for e-tools, I hate the little buggers, but they work. Obviously full size tools are better, but equally obvious, in a real situation they may be unavailable. But I guess in a real situation, if I was told to dig in against a formidable enemy, I'd use my teeth if I had to, so the e-tool serves it's purpose rather well, IMHO.

I just saw your post Infanteer.....agreed.

 

[eliteboris]

Wainright it is pretty sandy, easy to dig in but i find you need cgi to prevent it from falling apart.

 

[dutchie]

Wainright it is pretty sandy, easy to dig in but i find you need cgi to prevent it from falling apart.

easy.....except for Hart (sp?) Hill......lots of rock.

 

[48Highlander]

We usualy do end up carrying the e-tools with us on the large ex's at least.  Last time we had to use them though, 4 of my sections e-tools were broken in the first half hour.  Yes, they're better than nothing, but something more durable would be nice.

 

[chrisf]

While they're bulky, you can hump shovels and picks with your rucks... not really possible to hump them when your fighting order though, so yes, it would be nice if e-tools were issued more often...

(For anyone who's never had to dig on the east coast... I actually laughed in Shilo when told that we had to be to stage two in two hours at the most... I'm used to taking 3 hours to dig a four foot post hole in my nicely cultivated backyard...)

 

[Infanteer]

I'm used to taking 3 hours to dig a four foot post hole in my nicely cultivated backyard

Once the bad guys start dropping HE on you, Stage Two's can be dug pretty quick....

 

[Jungle]

The E-tool is essential, though not in all situations. The one we use is bulky and heavy, but it is more sturdy than others I've seen. To make it more sturdy would make it heavier, so there has to be some compromise...
As for them breaking in quantity at the beginning of an EX... you wouldn't think some of the guys would rather break them than dig ?? 
When ordered to bring E-tools, we would usually bring 1 per 2 men. You can't dig while fighting, and when digging, there usually is 50% watching the arcs of fire.

 

[mo-litia]

As for them breaking in quantity at the beginning of an EX... you wouldn't think some of the guys would rather break them than dig ??  

I would like to think that you're wrong about this . . . 

Just a quick aside from the militia world.  On a weekend ex, often militia units are faced with extreme time restrictions and a decision has to be made on what training is more beneficial to the soldier - digging a complete trench system, or carrying out other training that is more instructive than being on the business end of a pick and shovel.

I'm not trying to minimize the importance of being competent with trench construction or defensive routine.  I have seen or heard of several worthy attempts to deal with this time problem that is unique to the reserves.  Everything from just digging quick shell scrapes to occupying a prepared defensive postion for an ex has been tried, with varying levels of success.

I seem to recall that one year it was attempted to have the troops dig in for one training weekend and have them occupy it the next.  This was probablythe most effective means of training for the troops but I believe that some difficulties were encountered in motivating soldiers to return to the trenches after a weekend of digging . 

Enough of that. The e-tool? Clumsy, awkward and a nuisance to carry - but effective for what it has to do, although, like a lot of other troops, I prefer a full sized pickand shovel.