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Enrollment: Swearing an Oath or Affirmation [merged]

mariomike

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munchies said:
can someone please explain to me why i must say an oath declaring myself a tool to the queen?

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/47749.0
 

munchies

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Container said:
She evidently has done more for our way of life than you have.

http://all-that-is-interesting.com/post/718071302/queen-elizabeth-ii-serves-as-a-mechanic-during-world

she's a puppet, do you really think the government ends at that old hag?LOL
 

cnobbs84

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Container said:
She evidently has done more for our way of life than you have.

http://all-that-is-interesting.com/post/718071302/queen-elizabeth-ii-serves-as-a-mechanic-during-world

High Five! And I never knew that part of history, Thank you
 

vonGarvin

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munchies said:
can someone please explain to me why i must say an oath declaring myself a tool to the queen? I thought we declared independence from them? Why can't i pledge allegiance to Canada? 

The queen doesnt even do anything. Also, the whole idea of a queen is so 1700. I don't get it.
Your opinion of HM The Queen notwithstanding, she is still the head of state of Canada.  Her representative in Canada is the Governor General.

Now, as a member of the Canadian Forces, should you be one or become one, I remind you that it is an offense to use traitorous or disloyal words regarding Her Majesty and if convicted would be guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding seven years or to less punishment. (Section 94 of the National Defence Act).  And the words alleged to have been used may be either spoken, written, or printed.

Just saying.

So, in short, in spite of what the media may say, or what your opinions on HM The Queen are, the fact remains that Canada is a constitutional monarchy, and has a sovereign as the head of state.



 

munchies

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Am i the only one here that thinks it's really stupid to be doing this? I want to join the army, but it all seems to meaningless. And now they change the name of he air force to ROYAL air force. What's the use in that? Just to make it more appearent to the world that we are englands minions?

Wh yare e even called canada in this case might as well call us england
 

munchies

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Technoviking said:
Your opinion of HM The Queen notwithstanding, she is still the head of state of Canada.  Her representative in Canada is the Governor General.

Now, as a member of the Canadian Forces, should you be one or become one, I remind you that it is an offense to use traitorous or disloyal words regarding Her Majesty and if convicted would be guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding seven years or to less punishment. (Section 94 of the National Defence Act).  And the words alleged to have been used may be either spoken, written, or printed.

Just saying.

So, in short, in spite of what the media may say, or what your opinions on HM The Queen are, the fact remains that Canada is a constitutional monarchy, and has a sovereign as the head of state.

That's intense. I guess i shouldnt join the the parading beaver hats
 

Container

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munchies said:
That's intense. I guess i shouldnt join the the parading beaver hats

Good. We're sad to see you go.....only because we think its an important that somebody keeps an eye on you.....
 

Infanteer

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I figured I would be locking this one as soon as I read the title.    ::)

Muncie, some advice.  It is better to be thought of as an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt....
 
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When I joined, I gave my fealty to the Queen, her heirs and successors by swearing to her picture.  I have co-workers who say they swore fealty to the Canadian Flag.  Was this another option?  Does it vary by recruiting center?
 

RedcapCrusader

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DigitalCurrents said:
When I joined, I gave my fealty to the Queen, her heirs and successors by swearing to her picture.  I have co-workers who say they swore fealty to the Canadian Flag.  Was this another option?  Does it vary by recruiting center?

There's only one Oath. It is the same everywhere.

You either swear an oath or make a solemn affirmation.

Location and decorations are not important.
 

Michael OLeary

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QR&Os: Volume I - Chapter 6 Enrolment and Re-Engagement
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-01/ch-06.page

6.04- OATH TAKEN ON ENROLMENT

(1) An officer or non-commissioned member who is a Canadian citizen or a British subject shall, on enrolment, take the following oath or solemn affirmation:

"I ......... (full name), do swear (or for a solemn affirmation, "solemnly affirm") that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her heirs and successors according to law. So help me God."
The words "So help me God" shall be omitted if a solemn affirmation is taken.

(2) An officer or non-commissioned member who is not a Canadian citizen or a British subject shall, on enrolment, take the following oath or solemn affirmation:

"I ......... (full name), do swear (or for a solemn affirmation, "solemnly affirm") that I will well and truly serve Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her heirs and successors according to law, in the Canadian Forces until lawfully released, that I will resist Her Majesty's enemies and cause Her Majesty's peace to be kept and maintained and that I will, in all matters pertaining to my service, faithfully discharge my duty. So help me God."
The words "So help me God" shall be omitted if a solemn affirmation is taken.

(3) The oath or solemn affirmation prescribed in this article shall be taken before:

a commissioned officer; or
a justice of the peace.
(M)
 

mariomike

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See also,

Swearing an oath to the Queen 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/47749.0

Why must i make an oath to the queen if we declared independence from England?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/102246.0




 

RocketRichard

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LunchMeat said:
There's only one Oath. It is the same everywhere.

You either swear an oath or make a solemn affirmation.

Location and decorations are not important.
The Canadian flag and portrait of the sovereign are present during an Oath  or solemn affirmation.


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Harris

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RocketRichard said:
The Canadian flag and portrait of the sovereign are present during an Oath  or solemn affirmation.

Not true in my Unit.  We do them in front of the Regimental Colours.
 

Lumber

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RocketRichard said:
Uh oh.


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Not "uh-oh". While traditionally done, there is no legal or regulatory requirement.
 

RocketRichard

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Lumber said:
Not "uh-oh". While traditionally done, there is no legal or regulatory requirement.


DAOD-5002-1
Setting

7.3 A CO shall ensure that every attestation is conducted in a formal and dignified manner, and that the following items are present:

a framed picture of the Sovereign; and
the Canadian flag or a combination of the Canadian flag and CAF ensign.




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Lumber

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RocketRichard said:
DAOD-5002-1
Setting

7.3 A CO shall ensure that every attestation is conducted in a formal and dignified manner, and that the following items are present:

a framed picture of the Sovereign; and
the Canadian flag or a combination of the Canadian flag and CAF ensign.

And "QR&Os: Volume I - Chapter 6 Enrolment" says nothing about it, so I would take DAOD 5002 to be more as guidance for proper execution, and not legal requirements.

I'll admit, I could be wrong, but I doubt anyone would qualify to be released for "Irregular Enrolment" and have their enrolment voided if there wasn't a picture of the Queen and the national flag present.
 

RocketRichard

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Thanks for this Lumber. I'm simply passing on the DOAD reference. Some units in the Army PRes have recently taken over the enrolment ceremonies. The direction is to have the above present. Have a great day.


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trooper142

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Lumber said:
And "QR&Os: Volume I - Chapter 6 Enrolment" says nothing about it, so I would take DAOD 5002 to be more as guidance for proper execution, and not legal requirements.

I'll admin, I could be wrong, but I doubt anyone would qualify to be released for "Irregular Enrolment" and have their enrolment voided if there wasn't a picture of the Queen and the national flag present.

I have highlighted the important part of the DOAD to emphasize my opinion on the matter.


DAOD-5002-1
Setting

7.3 A CO shall ensure that every attestation is conducted in a formal and dignified manner, and that the following items are present:

a framed picture of the Sovereign; and
the Canadian flag or a combination of the Canadian flag and CAF ensign.

The word "Shall" does not confer discretion to the CO, as it is an order. Although you are likely right, and no member is going to be released, not following a DOAD is a service offence; which I will admit is unlikely to result in action, as the offence is minor.

Nevertheless, the DOAD reference is clear, and not having the required items present during the ceremony shows poor planning, poor leadership, and a poor first impression to those who wish to join.

Just my  :2c:
 
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