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Dress rules established for transsexuals in military

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GAP

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Dress rules established for transsexuals in military
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Tom Blackwell, National Post · Wednesday, Dec. 8, 2010

As U.S. politicians continue to debate whether to let gays serve openly in the American military, the Canadian Forces have issued a new policy detailing how the organization should accommodate transsexual and transvestite troops specifically. Soldiers, sailors and air force personnel who change their sex or sexual identity have a right to privacy and respect around that decision, but must conform to the dress code of their “target” gender, says the supplementary chapter of a military administration manual.

A gay-rights advocate hailed development of the guidelines as a progressive approach to people whose gender issues can trigger life-threatening psychological troubles.

Cherie MacLeod, executive director of PFLAG Canada, a sexual orientation-related support group, said she has helped a number of Forces members undergoing sex changes, surgery the military now funds.

“This is an important step towards recognizing a community that has always struggled for equal rights and basic human protection,” said Ms. MacLeod. “When government becomes more inclusive, over time, society will follow.”

Some within the Forces, though, were irked by the document’s appearance in e-mail boxes last week, just after a report by the military ombudsman that lambasted the National Defence Department for giving short shrift to the grieving families of fallen soldiers.

The armed services are still largely the domain of men who view themselves as “warriors,” believe headquarters staff are out of touch, and resent what they consider “politically correct” policies, said Scott Taylor, publisher of Esprit de Corps, a military-affairs magazine.

“You couldn’t get much worse timing on that internally,” he said, referring to the juxtaposition of the transsexual document and the ombudsman’s report. “It’s so removed from what the guys are facing over in Afghanistan ... That doesn’t really relate to dress codes of the transgendered.”
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George Wallace

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GAP said:
Dress rules established for transsexuals in military
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Tom Blackwell, National Post · Wednesday, Dec. 8, 2010

........ issues can trigger life-threatening psychological troubles.

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That line right there screams out at me.  I really don't care who or what or whatever a person may be, but if they have any kind of issues that can trigger a life-threatening psychological problem, then they should not be in any armed force, be it military or police or for that matter any of the Emergency Services.  Any person who may suffer life-threatening psychological angst should be exempted these occupations which require level minds in extreme circumstances.
 

dapaterson

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Where's the news?  We've had special dress regulations for cross-dressers for a long time.

kilt.jpg

 

vonGarvin

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That's it, I fucking quit.

We truly are a fourth-rate armed force.

 

chrisf

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The only reason they felt the need to release the policy is because local authority was to afraid of "harrasment" accusatiosn to effectively address any issues... if you're living as a man, dress like a man, if you're living as a woman, dress like a woman. Other then that, shut up and do your job. Not complicated.
 

Michael OLeary

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George Wallace said:
That line right there screams out at me.  I really don't care who or what or whatever a person may be, but if they have any kind of issues that can trigger a life-threatening psychological problem, then they should not be in any armed force, be it military or police or for that matter any of the Emergency Services.  Any person who may suffer life-threatening psychological angst should be exempted these occupations which require level minds in extreme circumstances.

You mean like ptsd?

 

vonGarvin

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a Sig Op said:
If you're living as a man, dress like a man, if you're living as a woman, dress like a woman.
This will make us the laughing stock of NATO.  People forget that "liberal democracy" means a democracy in which the minority doesn't suffer the wrath of the majority, and not a democracy in which the majority suffers the wrath of the minority.
 

The Bread Guy

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Technoviking said:
This will make us the laughing stock of NATO .... 
While not a NATO member, unless I'm hearing something different than others here, the Aussies don't seem to suffering from reputational effects from similar policies.

 

dapaterson

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Technoviking said:
This will make us the laughing stock of NATO.  People forget that "liberal democracy" means a democracy in which the minority doesn't suffer the wrath of the majority, and not a democracy in which the majority suffers the wrath of the minority.

No, painting rocks and arguments over the capitalization of the definite article will make us a laughingstock.
 

brihard

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Technoviking said:
This will make us the laughing stock of NATO.  People forget that "liberal democracy" means a democracy in which the minority doesn't suffer the wrath of the majority, and not a democracy in which the majority suffers the wrath of the minority.

What the hell are you talking about? What 'wrath' are we suffering? The wrath of lack of ambiguity as to how a transgenered member of the CF has to dress? Frankly, the policy seems simple and makes sense, as a Sig Op nicely sums up.

The sum total impact of this policy on you or I will, in all likelihood be zero. There's is no imposition on us or on any others whatsoever. No special treatment is being established. Simply put, if you're changing genders or are mixed gender, dress as the gender that you're targeting/identify with. Seems simple enough.

Resistance to this seems as silly as the 'No gays in MY army!' talk down in the states. I somehow doubt that one of the few real fighting members of NATO is going to become a laughing stock because a handful of members of the forces now have greater certainty as to how they are to dress.

ADREP a breaching ladder, and get over it.
 

HavokFour

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I'm going with George on this one. If they are in danger of being set off by these issues, they should not be given a weapon. I don't care about their gender orientation, I just don't want to see a Fort Hood happen in Canada.
 

Michael OLeary

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dapaterson said:
No, painting rocks and arguments over the capitalization of the definite article will make us a laughingstock.

Those are just traditions now and must be done for no other reason than that they've "always" been done..

And here I thought is was guys like these achieving that status for us:

Exhibit A
Exhibit B

We "got over" women in the combat arms, despite the predictions of social collapse and the triggering of Armageddon.  We got over letting gays and lesbians identify themselves as such and continue serving, this too will pass with hardly a ripple in the fabric of our military society. As long as it's neither contagious nor compulsory, and they fulfill their military obligations, let it be.

 

mover1

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Um The last couple of trans genders I saw in uniform were wearing combats just like everyone else.
And aren't they  (the Trans-genders) given a full psyche profile before they put the bod out for the mod?
And those that are going to go for the mod have to dress or live like their chosen sex for a time. So this policy just says if little Johnny wants to be little Joan then Johnny dresses like Joan for up to a year before he gets his Johnson changes into a .....
So this policy is good because it turns a grey area into a bit more of a black and white issue for that Sup tech sitting in Clothing stores denying the person his entitlement for his combat Bra reimbursement.

In the end who cares, why should only white heterosexual men have to die to protect peoples freedoms.
 

vonGarvin

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Brihard said:
ADREP a breaching ladder, and get over it.
ADREP a capbadge and go fuck it.
I'm sick and tired of our society bending over backwards for every Tom, Dick, Harry, Sally, ex-Jonathon, whatever.  If a citizen wants to serve, that's fine.  I could care less if he/she/it is Muslim, Atheist, former man now "woman" or whatever.  Pick a gender and dress the part.

Now, as to the "really important" stuff, which standard of the CF Expres Test would he/she/it have to pass?
 

vonGarvin

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a Sig Op said:
How exactly?
how, exactly?  We are so worried as a CF to look the part of being a model of diversity, when all one has to do is look at our Roll of Honour and see the reality.  We go for the lowest common denominator in our recruiting, when instead we should be sending messages along the line of "99.9% need not apply".  We are an exclusive club, certainly not homogenous, but neither are we a social model.  When the focus is on crap like this, instead of breeding a mentality of the "Virtuous Warrior", one who can withstand adversity and is willing to lie down one's life for one's country, instead of whinging and whining about our so-called "suppressed human rights", one can only look for the shadows. 

Christ, we have fatties going on operations, when they should be told to "ship up or ship out".
 

vonGarvin

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Michael O'Leary said:
We "got over" women in the combat arms, despite the predictions of social collapse and the triggering of Armageddon.  We got over letting gays and lesbians identify themselves as such and continue serving, this too will pass with hardly a ripple in the fabric of our military society. As long as it's neither contagious nor compulsory, and they fulfill their military obligations, let it be.
I disagree.  By letting transvestites (eg: individuals) choose to wear male or female uniforms, we have indeed jumped the shark.  Not one person in here can raise their hand and say that they didn't feel disgusted by that creep Williams' image in bra/panties.  And I imagine that they would feel the same had he not been a rapist/murderer/thief.  They may not want to admit it in public for fear of offending someone, but I could care less:
If you're a dude and you want to be a lumberjack of Monty Python fame, then go be a lumberjack.
 

Michael OLeary

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Technoviking said:
I disagree.  By letting transvestites (eg: individuals) choose to wear male or female uniforms, we have indeed jumped the shark. 

Solution: unisex uniforms; remove gender descriptions for uniforms and let people wear what they choose as long as any one uniform conforms to the Dress regulations.

 
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