Don Cherry fired

[mariomike]

Besides his partner did back him up.

Did he?

I want to sincerely apologize to our viewers and Canadians. During last night's broadcast, Don made comments that were hurtful and prejudiced and I wish I had handled myself differently. It was a divisive moment and I am truly upset with myself for allowing it.
https://twitter.com/RonMacLeanHTH/status/1193673238355873792

Don had this to say, "He ( Ron MacLean ) buried me."

 

[Jarnhamar]

Did he?

When it mattered most, yes.

 

[Blackadder1916]

What do you think the reaction would have been if Don Cherry said this?

I didn't worship at the altar of basketball. In my experience those who did all tended to be black boys who weren't, let's say, very nice..
They were not generally thoughtful, they were often bullies. Their parents were able to spend $5,000 a year on basketball— $5,000 is a lot of money.
You can do other things besides spending your time on the court; you can go on a trip and learn about the world, see other things, eh? The world is a big place, maybe get outside of that bubble.

How do you think talking about black boys would have went over?

To be honest, I cringed reading your use of that term.  Like "you people", "boy" has a racist connotation when referring to persons of colour, so there is a slight equivalency if Don Cherry had said those words.  However, he didn't and I was left wondering how you came to that quotation.  Then I realized that you were "paraphrasing" Jessica Allen, someone who was earlier introduced to the discussion (though there was little further discussion in response to the post) in what I assumed was an attempt to show a double standard in how a TV network reacts to an on-air personality who could be characterized as the opposite of Cherry. And Allen didn't say those words either, she was talking about hockey and stereotyping the stereotypical hockey player so I was confused why you suggested putting those words in Cherry's voice vice Allen's.

Since I've taken the bait, perhaps it should be indicated that Ms. Allen (and CTV) have apologized.  While I hold the opinion that what she said was incredibly stupid, I could see where she was coming from.  I also hold the same opinion of Mr. Cherry's comment though in no way do I see an equivalency between the two individuals.  Like Remius (whose post originally referred to Allen's faux pas), I had no idea who Jessica Allen was.  I had to look it up and can honestly say that I have never seen her program before (and probably never will); the demographic that likely tunes in to her probably does not overlap much to the type (stereotype?) who frequent this forum.  That demographic being predominately female and being available to watch the program during normal (outside the home) working hours.  I hold no opinion about the quality of Ms. Allen's performance skill or any other commentary that she has made.

Don Cherry, on the other hand, has been described as a "national icon", which, in my opinion, does not say a lot about our national iconography.  Even Canadians who are not interested in hockey or bad fashion have been exposed to Mr. Cherry, usually because of some outrageous remarks that he made (even before this latest incident).  He has (had?) a national audience, whether deserved or not.  Ms. Allen has a more limited audience and it is likely if her actual comments had not been linked to the national debate about Don Cherry then they would have gone relatively unnoticed.  This has probably been the most media visibility she has thus far received in her career.  Hopefully, it won't go to her head and lead her to be outrageous for the sake of ratings.

 

[mariomike]

I was left wondering how you came to that quotation. 

Always appreciated when,

• You will properly attribute any quotes to the appropriate author or speaker.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Blackadder1916]To be honest, I cringed reading your use of that term.  Like "you people", "boy" has a racist connotation when referring to persons of colour, so there is a slight equivalency if Don Cherry had said those words.[/quote]

Are you saying that "boy" is racist when used to refer to people of colour but not racist when talking about caucasians?

Then I realized that you were "paraphrasing" Jessica Allen, someone who was earlier introduced to the discussion (though there was little further discussion in response to the post) in what I assumed was an attempt to show a double standard in how a TV network reacts to an on-air personality who could be characterized as the opposite of Cherry.

Not so much paraphrasing. I just switched white with black and hockey with basketball then presented it and asked what the reaction would be if Don Cherry said that.

Questioning whether or not there is a double standard was exactly what I was eluding to you're right.
Is there a double standard when it come to speaking disparagingly about white people vs people of colour? Is one more generally tolerated than the other?
How about a conservative male vs a liberal/progressive woman?
Big time celebrity vs little known broadcaster?

My question is what if we hypothetically stopped assigning levels of outrage or levels of offense based on all these factors and just treated offensive or unacceptable comments as what they are? Regardless of who's saying them?

Ms. Allen (and CTV) have apologized[/url].

Yes they have. She apologized to anyone who was offended. To me that kind of turns it around on whoever was offended but lets agree yes she did apologize. Didn't Don Cherry do the same thing? Apologized to anyone he hurt by those comments? As well as offering to apologize (I assume on air) but reported "but it wasn't enough." talking about Rogers.

While I hold the opinion that what she said was incredibly stupid, I could see where she was coming from.

I can too.

in no way do I see an equivalency between the two individuals.

And again that's my point. Maybe it's time we start holding everyone to the same standard of behavior and language.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Always appreciated when,

I avoided referencing her in what I wrote on purpose to have a bigger impact and attempt to prove speak to the point I spoke to above (lets stop assigning levels of offense based on who's saying what).

It may also be semantics but

You will not post any information that is offensive, defamatory, inaccurate, racist, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

Had I attributed the statement to Jessica Allen as a quote I would have been violating this rule as she did not use the words black or basketball. It wasn't technically a quote.


Edited to pick a better word.

 

[The Bread Guy]

...  Didn't Don Cherry do the same thing? Apologized to anyone he hurt by those comments? ...

Is this an apology?  Discuss ...

...  "I believe if I had a chance to come on this Saturday, I could have said 'everybody' instead of 'you people.'"

"I volunteered to apologize but it wasn't enough. I can't tell you what they asked me to do after that but I said I wouldn't do it."

"I can see how it hurt some people, I can really see it." ...

Other variations ...

• "Don Cherry says he was fired, not sorry for 'Coach's Corner' poppy rant"
• "The controversial longtime hockey broadcaster isn't backing down, nor is he apologizing, in fact he says he meant what he said ..."
• "'I'm not backing down': Cherry not apologizing, admits to poor choice of words"
• "Don Cherry refuses to apologize for ‘you people’ rant in aftermath of poppy controversy"

And we can compare the initial words of the folks in question side by side, attached (sources here and here).

 

[Jarnhamar]

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/don-cherry-says-he-s-sorry-if-he-hurt-anyone-but-believes-silent-majority-agrees-with-him-1.4682055

TORONTO -- Don Cherry says he is sorry if his "you people" rant about poppies on "Hockey Night in Canada" hurt anyone but he believes the silent majority backs him.


Seems like he's not apologizing for what he said and stands by what he said but is apologizing if what he said hurt anyone.

So, same same but different?


I'm not making excuses for him. I honestly probably never watched a hockey game in my life so I have no interest in him what so ever.
He seems obnoxious from the clips I have heard of him. I've had shitty service at his restaurants. He's super supportive of the CAF and spent Christmas in 2010 with the troops.

It seems to me like he was singling out people of colour as immigrants even if he didn't outright say that, which isn't cool. It's pretty shitty actually. "Poppy shaming" really pisses me off.

 

[The Bread Guy]

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/don-cherry-says-he-s-sorry-if-he-hurt-anyone-but-believes-silent-majority-agrees-with-him-1.4682055

TORONTO -- Don Cherry says he is sorry if his "you people" rant about poppies on "Hockey Night in Canada" hurt anyone but he believes the silent majority backs him.


Seems like he's not apologizing for what he said and stands by what he said but is apologizing if what he said hurt anyone.

So, same same but different?

I should have been more specific -- I see headlines and paraphrases of "sorry" but I don't see quotes of him saying it himself. 

I honestly probably never watched a hockey game in my life so I have no interest in him what so ever.

I'm not a hockey fan myself, so I became interested once the hub-bub started.

He's super supportive of the CAF and spent Christmas in 2010 with the troops.

I can't deny that at all - he did good there.

It seems to me like he was singling out people of colour as immigrants even if he didn't outright say that, which isn't cool. It's pretty shitty actually. "Poppy shaming" really pisses me off.

With you on both counts.  If he was going to "poppy shame" (which isn't as good an education approach as some of the ideas Colin P. suggested earlier in the thread), I think he's learned even if he thinks it's a small group, a little ... diplomacy might not be out of line.  Yeah, I know - like folks hired Cherry to be diplomatic.

 

[mariomike]

Ed the sock put it this way,

Get past your outrage & face some real facts: Sportsnet has been bleeding money since they bought HNIC, #DonCherry's contract was worth millions and Cherry gave the company a way to save $$$ while seeming like the good guys.  On a silver platter.
https://twitter.com/EdtheSock/status/1195878601020903425