Do you need permission to skydive?

[dariel]

I remember hearing from someone that you need to ask permission to go skydiving with a civilian organization. I disregarded the statement thinking I'd never go, but now it's looking like I may have the opportunity to try it after all.

A little bit about my situation: I'm an OCdt with basic training, no more, and I'm presently attending university to become a nurse under the ROTP program. I wanted to know if it is true that I need to ask permission and if so, would a simple email suffice or do I have to throw myself to the wolves by trying to pass a memo through the CoC in Ottawa? Thanks in advance for the info!

Cheers!

 

[medicineman]

Talk to your ULO...they should be able to help you there.

MM

 

[Blackadder1916]

The applicable CF regulation that deals with (or at least used to deal with) sport parachuting is CFAO 50-7.  Since CFAOs are no longer available in the internet, a up-to-date version is not available to me but I do have a version (which I cannot guarantee to be current) from an old CD.

CFAO 50-7

SPORT PARACHUTING

GENERAL

1.  This order applies to sport parachuting activities that are conducted
as part of a unit recreation program.

2.  The purpose of this order is to describe the policy governing:

    a.  authorized participation in sport parachuting by members of the
          Canadian Forces (CF); and

    b.  operation and control of authorized CF sport parachuting clubs.

3.  The risks inherent in sport parachuting demand that participation by
members of the Canadian Forces in sport parachuting as part of the
authorized recreation program be strictly controlled.

PARTICIPATION

4.  It is stressed that unless it can be clearly demonstrated that the
event or activity was specifically authorized, organized or performed in
the best interests of the Canadian Forces, sport parachuting will be
considered a recreational activity participated in for the members' own
pleasure.  The implications of this position are set out in paragraphs 14
and 15 of this order.

5.  Sport parachuting may be included as part of an authorized recreation
program referred to in CFAO 50-2, for members of the CF but:

    a.  all participating members must achieve and maintain the required
          standards of physical performance prescribed in CFAO 50-1;

    b.  the event or activity must be part of the program of an approved
          CF sport parachuting club or, where a CF club is not established,
          the individual must be authorized by his commanding officer to
          participate as a member of a sport parachuting club or centre
          registered and affiliated with the Canadian Sports Parachuting
          Association (CSPA) or, if outside Canada, a club/centre
          registered with the Federation Aeronautique Internationale, the
          Rhine Army Parachuting Association or the United States Sport
          Parachuting Association; and

    c.  individual membership with the CSPA is required prior to taking
          part in sport parachuting activities with an approved sport
          parachuting club.

CF SPORT PARACHUTING CLUBS

6.  A CF sport parachuting club may be organized as part of a unit
recreation program referred to in CFAO 50-2, and shall be operated as
follows:

    a.  the club organization and operation must meet the requirements of
          CFAO 50-20;

    b.  the president of the club shall be appointed or approved by the
          base or station commander;

    c.  the club executive must include a technical committee comprising
          a safety officer, club instructors and, if available, a CSPA
          qualified rigger;

    d.  written terms of reference shall be maintained for all members of
          the club executive including members of the technical committee;

    e.  on formation, the club shall register with the Canadian Sport
          Parachuting Association and maintain such registration; and

    f.  NDHQ/DGPS (Director General Personnel Services) shall be advised
          when a club is either formed or disbanded.

CONTROL

7.  All club activities shall conform with the rules and regulations of
the CSPA.

8.  Control shall be maintained by:

    a.  the operation of a club training program based on current CSPA
          operation, training and safety publications;

    b.  compliance with current "Basic Safety Regulations" issued by the
          CSPA; and

    c.  the establishment of any additional regulations the base or
          station commander deems necessary.

USE OF CIVILIAN CLUBS OR CENTRES IN CANADA

9.  In Canada, occasions may arise when an individual member of the CF or
an authorized CF Sport parachuting club wishes to participate with or at a
civilian parachuting club or centre.  In this event, the procedure to be
followed by the individual or club and the commanding officer (CO) is as
follows:

    a.  the individual(s) or club shall complete Part I of Annex A and
          submit it to the CO;

    b.  the CO will complete Part II and forward the form to the CSPA;

    c.  the CSPA will conduct an investigation, determine if the club or
          centre is registered with the CSPA and complete Part III; and

    d.  the completed form will then be returned to the CO by the CSPA
          indicating whether the civilian club or centre is suitable for
          use by members of his unit.

10.  Under no circumstances should a CO authorize, as part of a CF sport
parachuting club program, use of a civilian sport parachuting club or
centre not approved by the CSPA.

EQUIPMENT

11.  Each club is responsible for providing its own equipment and for the
hire of aircraft.  Military aircraft and parachute equipment shall not be
used for sport parachuting.  This restriction may be waived on the
authority of NDHQ for special events such as international military
competitions or armed forces displays.

12.  All repairs and modifications to club equipment and the periodic
repacking of reserve parachutes shall only be carried out by a CSPA
qualified rigger holding the appropriate CSPA rigging license.

13.  Subject to paragraph 12, equipment safety regulations are contained in
current operating, training and safety publications of the CSPA.

INSURANCE LIMITATIONS

14.  A military sport parachuting club established and operating in
accordance with this order, CFAO 50-2, and CFAO 50-20 is a Base-Fund
sponsored activity and thus is included for coverage under CFCF
Consolidated Insurance policy as described in Chapter 20 to
A-FN-105-001/AG-001.  This policy provides for protection against loss and
damage on non-public fund property and for public liability of the CO as
the person responsible for the operation of Base-Fund sponsored activities.
However, it does not provide protection for participants because of the
dangers inherent in the activity.

15.  Members participating in sport parachuting activities should be made
aware that they may not be covered under the provisions of the Pension Act
and that there is no form of group insurance coverage.  There is also no
liability coverage provided for participants under the Non-Public Fund
(NPF) Consolidated Insurance policy.  Participants should be encouraged to
review their personal accident and life insurance coverage to ensure that
there is no exclusion clause for sport parachuting or high risk activities
and that the benefits they may accrue are realistic.  The responsibility
for arranging and paying for such coverage rests with the individual.

PUBLICATIONS

16.  Publications concerning administration matters between the CSPA and
individual member clubs, and the publications referred to in paragraph 8
are supplied free of charge by the CSPA when an individual club joins the
Association.  Such publications shall not be procured at public expense.

LIAISON OFFICER TO CSPA

17.  The Department of National Defence Liaison Officer (DND LO) to the
CSPA is appointed by the Director Land Operation and Training (DLOT),
normally for a term of office of two years.  On behalf of DPERA, the DND
OPI for sport parachuting activities organized and conducted in accordance
with CFAO 50-7, the DND LO has authority for direct liaison between DPERA
and the CSPA on matters concerning CF sport parachuting.  Where necessary,
particularly in matters of safety, the DND LO, with the approval of DPERA
and the applicable command, may liaise directly between the CFSA and the CO
of a unit having a CF sport parachuting club.  Matters concerning CF sport
parachuting policy shall be channelled through DPERA in accordance with
normal staffing procedures.

CANADIAN FORCES PARACHUTE TEAM

18.  The policy and terms of reference governing the Canadian Forces
Parachute Team are contained in CFAO 50-22.


(C)                                    1605-50-7 (DPERA)

Issued 16 Nov 84

INDEX

Parachutist
Sports

Needing permission to skydive is used to be a grey area, however it was common for the above CFAO to be cited as the guidance requiring everyone to ask permission before jumping out of perfectly functioning aircraft.  During my service I had to conduct a couple of SIs involving individuals who sustained injuries when they went jumping without informing their CoC (in the 1980s).  If my memory serves me right (because it was contemplated charging them as well as the potential of recovering medical costs) the JAG opinion was that their activity was their own recreation and thus a private matter (we still attempted to recover medical costs from private insurers).  It was much the same outcome in my own case which predated those incidents by nearly a decade.

The advice to check with your ULO is the best way to go.  Regardless of his response, keep in mind that if you sustain injuries as a result it could affect your career and may not necessarily be covered for pension/insurance purposes.

 

[Journeyman]

Once again......

...before jumping out of perfectly functioning aircraft.

...before jumping into perfectly good air. There's a reason it's called "skydiving" and not "plane-leaving."  :nod:

 

[Michael OLeary]

Once again......
...before jumping into perfectly good air. There's a reason it's called "skydiving" and not "plane-leaving."  :nod:

... except for when it's called "bailing out."

 

[midget-boyd91]

... except for when it's called "bailing out."

Bailing out "in style!!"
And many smaller dropzones aircraft look less than "perfectly functioning" ...  ;D

 

[Bigmac]

The CFAO that is being quoted is related to military unit run recreational programs. It is basically letting CO's know their responsibilities in sanctioning recreation skydiving as a military unit activity.

The poster was asking about doing recreational skydiving on their own time.

 

[PuckChaser]

Bailing out "in style!!"
And many smaller dropzones aircraft look less than "perfectly functioning" ...  ;D

Yeah, at Skydive Gan I think I was more scared of having to land in that plane on that strip than leaving the aircraft at 9500 feet.

 

[Takeniteasy]

You do not need permission from your COC to participate in recreational parachuting.  Do not let anyone tell you otherwise.  As a regular force member you are covered under Blue Cross (military health care) for any injury or illness sustained at anytime.  If you were a civilian then you would fall under provincial health care plans.  No one in Canada is turned away from required health care services.  I am not sure if OCdt do the express test but if you do then indicate on the form all the sports you do recreationally, depending on the profession you are entering skydiving could be looked at as an asset and contributing to your overall operational readiness.

You most likely cannot find insurance for skydiving, diving, mountain climbing,  most if not all extreme sports are excluded from insurance polices.  If they do include them then your premium would be quiet high.

Also the military would not try to recover costs for injuries sustained during recreational skydiving or any other activity for that matter,  that is an OLD Military URBAN LEGEND,  I heard that many times when I was in the army and posted with the RCR.  More of a control tactic.... if I only knew back then what I know now!!!....

Go out and enjoy the experience,  as anything extreme pay attention and follow the rules of the sport.  You will gain a different perspective and gain situational awareness like no other....

 

[Occam]

You most likely cannot find insurance for skydiving, diving, mountain climbing,  most if not all extreme sports are excluded from insurance polices.  If they do include them then your premium would be quiet high.

I'm pretty sure SISIP insurance still covers you for all the above.  I would call and confirm, though.

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . . .

Also the military would not try to recover costs for injuries sustained during recreational skydiving or any other activity for that matter,  that is an OLD Military URBAN LEGEND,  I heard that many times when I was in the army and posted with the RCR.  More of a control tactic.... if I only knew back then what I know now!!!....

Actually, it's not a "legend".  While recovery of medical (and lost time salary) costs for injuries sustained both on and off duty were never directly assessed against a member, recovery action was often taken against third parties deemed responsible for the accident/injuries.  During my service, (especially during my postings as a Hosp Adm O) I was personally involved in a number of such recovery actions.  The CFMS's role was to calculate the medical costs (pay and other costs would similarly be done by others) and forward them to the legal world via the Comd Surg.  By happenstance, I have an old OLTRS disk that includes the SurgGen directive that was one of the references we used.

1243-6 TD 5039 (DMAR)

10 APRIL, 1985

MEDICAL DIRECTIVE 2/85

PREPARATION OF THIRD PARTY CLAIMS

GENERAL

1.  This medical directive is effective upon receipt and supersedes
Medical Directive 4/80 which is hereby cancelled.

2.  Periodically the CFMS is required to provide costing data to
legal and administrative authorities to assist them in recovering
costs for medical services. These costs result from
incidents/accidents caused by a party other than the Department (DND)
or a member of the Canadian Forces (CF). The resulting action
initiated by the Department against an outside agency, person or
persons, is known as a "Third Party Claim".

3.  Although these claims must continue to be coordinated through
command/regional surgeon headquarters, it is readily apparent that
unit and base medical facilities are required to provide much of the
essential detail. The following guidelines are provided to assist.

4.  All third party claims for medical care will be submitted on form
CF 2181. It is important the original and one copy are forwarded to
the requesting authority. Form CF 2181 shall be enfaced in the upper
right hand corner "FOR CLAIMS ACTION -- NOT TO BE PROCESSED FOR
PAYMENT". Units initiating CF 2181s are to annotate which provincial
government schedule of fees has been used to calculate charges, and
are to provide a breakdown by code and dollar amount for services
provided. In the event payment was made to a civilian organization for
medical services provided, units are to attach a copy of the invoice
to the CF 2181.

5.  Charges for use of CF ambulances or other CF standard pattern
vehicles are to be determined in liaison with local base
transportation officers.

6.  When preparing third party claims for medical care, two types of
medical facilities must be considered. These are:

    a.  Designated Facilities -- These are Canadian Forces hospitals
          and other facilities authorized by the provinces to treat
          patients covered by provincial health care plans, The
          charges for in-patients treated in these facilities are a
          per diem rate assigned by the province, plus profession-
          al/technical fees in accordance with the provincial
          government schedule of fees. Charges for organized
          out-patient department visits and emergency room visits in
          these facilities will be that charge authorized by the
          province and the applicable professional and technical fees
          in accordance with the provincial government schedule. These
          facilities include:

          (1)  the National Defence Medical Centre,

          (2)  Canadian Forces Hospital Cold Lake,

          (3)  Oromocto Public Hospital,

          (4)  Base Clinic, CFB Shilo,

          (5)  Station Clinic, CFS Masset,

          (6)  Station Clinic, CFS Holberg, and

          (7)  Station Clinic, CFS Gypsumville.

          NOTE:    CFH Lahr and CFB Baden Base Hospital are
                    considered designated facilities and are treated
                    as if they were in Ontario.

    b.  Non-Designated Facilities -- These are all other CFMS
          treatment facilities not listed above. The rate to be
          charged for in-patients in these facilities will be as
          advised by Surgeon General/DMAR.

7.  Charges for out-patient care for non-designated units will be as
follows:

. . . . . . . .

The above directive has probably been superceded by now but third party claims are likely still being made.  As I said above, claims for costs were not made against the serving members who were injured, but there were rare cases when serving members (or more properly their insurance companies) were the third party.  When a member was injured in an accident it was a wise move if he contacted the JAG and coordinated any legal action that he was taking as an individual with any possible recovery action the department was taking.  There were instances when members received settlements that included payments to cover medical, lost pay and similar costs; they were surprised when the recovery action for that part of the settlement was made to them.