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Detachment 2 i/c Course

trajectomologist

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I have questions, and perhaps the more experienced gunners can help me on this.
Why is the det 2 i/c run the way it is? By this I mean that everything is a review rather than taught.
I understand that gun drill is a very basic skill that we all have, but how exactly does that evolve into becoming a det 2 i/c and more realistically a No 1.
I have just finished the course, and I learned a great deal while I was there, but I felt behind the eight ball every day... mostly because about 99% of the other students had a good grasp on the material covered (or rather reviewed).
I suppose you will tell me that it is a failing on the part of my unit that they didn't train me proporly to go onto the course, but I have never seen or heard of a prerequisite package that should be completed prior to attending the course. I have seen det commanders taking people a mentoring them, which is really cool.
I am just not sure how it's all supposed to work out.

Could someone seriously help me, I'm confused... ... and still studying...

Thanks!
 
The Det 2 i/c is the No. 1 when the actual No.1 is resting or otherwise occupied.  If you are still learning portions of the gun drill manual then you need supervision.  Requiring supervision while supervising a killing machine manned by others needing supervision is a disaster waiting to happen.  If 99% of the others were comfortable then perhaps you need more rounds down range.  You can't learn gun drill to a high standard by reading the manual.  Repetition of drills makes them second nature, second nature means when something isn't right then you notice before from giving the order to fire. Poor gun drill will kill those you are supporting, those observing or perhaps someone just tilling their fields.

Det 2i/c course prereqs use to be JLC/PLQ, and a Tech or Comms course.  To be in command you must know your job and all of the tasks of your subordinates.

Maybe the other 99% were just as concerned as you but acted otherwise.
 
The Course will only give you the tools to stand between the trails and do a # 1's job, and its up to you to get back in the books and resarch your self and don't be afraid to ask questions, and some day it will hit you and you will be a good Det Comd. just remember Det 2i/c are not born they are made from another Det Comd to have them as there 2 i/c. and as for your package that is up the the Course Programmer to send you one. and all's that does is get you back in the books. its a very good tool and i hope you kept your i now i did from back in 86 and i still give them out to troops when i program a Det 2 i/c. if you now gunnery then and now all's you have to now is when the different times to load and when to fire and they are all in the book, and you now which one, you will make a better # 1. good luck and stay in the books and get between the trails and get your feet wet.

UBIQUE
 
I did mine with W Bty/Arty School in spring of 84 or 85. It was about a month long, if I remember correctly. I'm not sure whether you are referring to a Regular Force or Militia one, but here is my take. On our course, we did as you describe - gun drill on the 105 as well as the M109. Detachments front/rear, take post, laying/recording, blah blah blah ad nauseum. Ammo lectures. Field stuff. Equipment lectures. First off, it brought everyone to the same standard, so we could work as Detachments, and ultimately - learn to command those detachments. Being graded as a Det Comd is dicey, if your detachment is at varying levels or performance. The other thing in my mind (Rocky touched on this) is confidence. I believe one of the things that builds confidence in a leader is technical mastery. If you know gun drills and all that goes with them - inside and out - it is much easier to focus on the leadership aspects of being a Number 1. If you are below standard (or barely standard) in the technical aspects, then you will be dividing your focus between leadership and the actual logistics of deploying the howitzer, operating it, and putting rounds downrange. There is far more to being a good 2 I/C (thus Det Comd) than making sure the gun goes boom - if all of the technical stuff is second nature, you have the focus and confidence to look after all the other things that are part of the job.
 
Trajectamologist;

When in doubt - recalculate lane, it won't get you any closer to the target but it will make you look busy.  Orienting your shooting map helps also.

Later
 
Muskrat,

1984 was that a catapult or black powder muzzle loader?
 
They have a Militia 2 i/c's course now?

Wow learn something everyday - so much for my idea of going back to the 30Fd if I get out of the PPCLI.

 
1984 was that a catapult or black powder muzzle loader

9 pdr with iron shot, actually, Sir  ;)

Now tell us again how you dumped the burning vats of oil over the ramparts, without hurting your own guys...  ;D
 
I understand what a det 2 i/c is and does and to what extent.

What I am trying to explore is what work up and pre-training would be appropriate (via current CTS/CTP)
A career gun-line guy can be mentored quite well... it's the techs and the guys in the OP that I'm concerned about.
I guess I should have clarified... thought the name gave it away... but I was away from the guns for a while.

** the gun drill book is used quite extensivley. ie. bore sitting
 
Trajectamologist says, "but I was away from the guns for a while." 

Then the best medicine is to get your butt back on the gun line before you attempt a Det 2 i/c course.  The best pre-requisite is recent experience doing what you are going to lead others in doing. You can't get that from a book or a computer, you gotta live it one round, and one deployment at a time.

If your boots ain't been dirty then you don't have recent field experience.


 
I had 1 year experience on the guns then 5 years off the guns in various positions and then last minute I was suddenly "free" from my civi job (No work for 8 months) to do my det 2 ic course and 95% of it just came back to me in the begining classes and the rest came back through prepping my classes (1 of them more than once  ???) and sitting through other classes....Read your gun drill book and get you det commander to run you thourgh as the #1.
 
3 streams coming on line soon.  Even though it would be nice to have a det 2 1/c course, it will no longe be available ot a bunch of troops, with the new plan for less guns, more FE's and and many more FSCC's.  The days of going from one to another are gone.  I don;t know how this will work with the reserve way of everyone saying they are going and only half of the people showing up, but that is the new plan as it stands.
 
And, ya know, the "Three Streams" thing is just fine ! We never had a Det 2iI/C course in the seventies. The soldiers were taught by the No 1. In fact, I remember being between the trails during a firepower demo in Shilo, in ' 73, as a Gunner ! Although the No 1 and his Bomber were not far away, I was the man of the moment ! Subsequently, I did the same with my Gunners. I insisted on the same with my NOs 1 when I was the TSM !

If training is carried out correctly, as easy as this may sound, the soldiers will know all their respective jobs....and one up !!

Ubique
 
MrGnr27 said:
If training is carried out correctly, as easy as this may sound, the soldiers will know all their respective jobs....and one up !!

Ubique

Gotta disagree here, cause of the 3 streams you will have guys that know their jobs and one up but it will only be in their stream, You have Gun Line TSM's who have no idea what is going on in the box, OP TSM's who have never been out on recce. I see that as a big problem.
 
If you are looking for the best way to prep for a 2IC course. Go to your regimental library and sign for a copy of fire discipline and a gun drill book. Know your fire d inside and out and drive the body when the time comes.UBIQUE
 
Well I, like Muscrat, did my Det 2ic in 85 (and it was actually on the tree slinged catapult!!) but your perception of what was taught to you may be superficial. Having taught this course many times myself, the intention is to intrigue the candidates to learn the info on their own. In my experience, I have found that there is no replacement for researching and delivering methods in your own way. This is what will build the leadership skills that will be unique to you for the rest of your career. Yes, the basic knowledge of gun drill and barking out of orders is nice to have, but in the long run, the course is meant to enhance your ability to lead a detachment in all operational conditions. Your flexibility and ability to adapt, enable you to be successful. Since you passed, I would say this method worked. You will find that as you progress in the ranks, all leadership based courses will have the same approach.

Meanwhile, congrats on your grad! Now move on to becoming the best leader you can be, and remember that those troops are your best asset!

The Bin
 
Gunner98 said:
Muskrat,

1984 was that a catapult or black powder muzzle loader?

Damn, if you think 1984 is way back there, I was spreading the legs of a 155 towed in 1968.

 
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