DEC and CIA

[Steve1959]

Thanks Teager. I will be contacting the Ombudsman for their input. Notwithstanding, I don't think that the CIA policy was written for veterans with medical issues such as mine. C'est la vie.

Steve

 

[Amos]

I think it has to do with time remaining, as in if career was cut short off 25 years.  From what I understand, if completed 25 years in service, one cannot be eligible for CIA.  That's the way I read it on the VAC site anyways.

 

[Beachexplorer]

I was declared DEC in Oct and applied for CIAS and CIA. I was denied CIA as I had 30 years in and didn’t meet all the prerequisites (amputation etc as was outlined above) so of course because I don’t have CIA, CIAS was too denied (even though DEC). Have to wait for claim for mental health to get approved so I can reapply for CIA and see if it will help my case.  But of course nothing will happen soon and will miss my chance to apply for CIAS as it will not be avail for those who want to apply for it come 1 Apr 19

 

[Steve1959]

Thanks for the GreenArmyChick and BeachExplorer. Much appreciated. I am not expecting to be approved for CIA, but, I had to try to put this to rest once and for all.

Steve1959

 

[Arty Sim]

I was wondering if others here would be interested in commenting - I have had numerous injuries over decades, both physical and mental.Though I was aware of how to file a disability claim I did not know about things like CIA,ELB,DEC nor did my Case Manager ever bring them up to me in a discussion. I found out about them about 2 years back, but was under the impression a veteran had to be 100% totally demolished before they could even apply let alone be granted any of this compensation. In another discussion veterans had posted that their CM had filed on their behalf declaration of DEC based on their PTSD %, with some as low as 35%...and they were granted DEC status. For years my PTSD % has been above that(let alone my physical %), but no CM ever said I was a good candidate , I ask are there others here who have been labeled DEC for their PTSD and if so what was your % at the time of application?, although I know the humiliation and low self esteem that comes with being told you may never work a normal job again, I still can`t help but feel like I`ve been short changed.?

 

[Steve1959]

Arty Sim,

Send a VAC message on your VAC account asking your CM to request a DEC consideration for you. Go over the DEC policy and ensure you paint a clear picture to your CM on your total physical and mental limitations. Describe everything, don't leave anything out. While you are at it, request that your CM advance an ELB and CIA application on your behalf, or, simply apply yourself. Are you on VAC Rehab or have you been? ELB and DEC require VAC Rehab. If you aren't on VAC Rehab, again, you can talk to your CM about this. Your personal situation/medical limitations may have never been properly conveyed to your CM or he/she never spoke to you in-depth on your condition and what you may be entitled to. Don't hesitate contact your CM soonest.

Steve1959

 

[upandatom]

It was explained to me that you also have to be involved in a Rehab program,
Which is a hurdle for you from what I can see.

You have to be enrolled in a Rehab program that addresses one or more of the medical concerns.
In my case, I am under it for PTSD which is why the lowest grade was applied, and we are attempting to get the Rehab program for my hearing to be included in my CIA, which would increase the grade level,

Problem is, for some Medical conditions, they do not have or implement a Rehab program (Hearing is one of them, because there is no way to repair the hearing, we are attempting a different approach to get the Rehab program as I require to hear for my employment, and I will have to be retrained, and the only way to do that is to be on the Rehab program.) With that, both conditions woul qualify for Grade 2 CIA, apparently, but they also do not have an official CIA grading format anymore.

 

[Arty Sim]

It was explained to me that you also have to be involved in a Rehab program,
Which is a hurdle for you from what I can see.

You have to be enrolled in a Rehab program that addresses one or more of the medical concerns.
In my case, I am under it for PTSD which is why the lowest grade was applied, and we are attempting to get the Rehab program for my hearing to be included in my CIA, which would increase the grade level,

Problem is, for some Medical conditions, they do not have or implement a Rehab program (Hearing is one of them, because there is no way to repair the hearing, we are attempting a different approach to get the Rehab program as I require to hear for my employment, and I will have to be retrained, and the only way to do that is to be on the Rehab program.) With that, both conditions woul qualify for Grade 2 CIA, apparently, but they also do not have an official CIA grading format anymore.

Thanks, I was focusing totally on my PTSD %, but you’re telling that in an application for CIA grades and DEC I should include my other injuries like hearing, back ,arm, I just assumed VAC had all that information in my file and would take that into consideration automatically. I already did a rehab program about 20 years ago.

 

[upandatom]

Thanks, I was focusing totally on my PTSD %, but you’re telling that in an application for CIA grades and DEC I should include my other injuries like hearing, back ,arm, I just assumed VAC had all that information in my file and would take that into consideration automatically. I already did a rehab program about 20 years ago.

Yeah it was news to me until recently as well, there has to be a rehab program in play for you to be able to get the CIA, the more disabilities applied to the CIA, which is basically your daily living, for me

1. Driving,
2. Social sitauations
3. rage, anxiety, stress

is why i have the first grade, however add in lack of hearing, would put it to the second grade as its a second disability.

 

[Arty Sim]

Yeah it was news to me until recently as well, there has to be a rehab program in play for you to be able to get the CIA, the more disabilities applied to the CIA, which is basically your daily living, for me

1. Driving,
2. Social sitauations
3. rage, anxiety, stress

is why i have the first grade, however add in lack of hearing, would put it to the second grade as its a second disability.

I`m new to all of this , I think the rehab program I did was through ltd/sissip , I dont know if thats the same as VAC? how bad would your hearing have to be to be considered a disability, past 5%? or much greater, same goes for back and and arm injuries, if a vet was 5% lumbar, 5% cervical, 5% arm these seem low but they do affect a veterans quality of life ? But I just live with them and ignore complaining about them to vac about what I may or may not be entitled to,

 

[upandatom]

I`m new to all of this , I think the rehab program I did was through ltd/sissip , I dont know if thats the same as VAC? how bad would your hearing have to be to be considered a disability, past 5%? or much greater, same goes for back and and arm injuries, if a vet was 5% lumbar, 5% cervical, 5% arm these seem low but they do affect a veterans quality of life ? But I just live with them and ignore complaining about them to vac about what I may or may not be entitled to,

IT has to be considered a Severe and Permanent disability, which for hearing is above the 300 DSHL threshold, which I am (after this weeks Audiogram,) is 375, I was 320 in april, seems between 20-60 every 6 months to a year when I am in.

Decibel Sum Hearing loss, The instructions for reading the audiogram are on the Table of disabilities.

 

[Arty Sim]

IT has to be considered a Severe and Permanent disability, which for hearing is above the 300 DSHL threshold, which I am (after this weeks Audiogram,) is 375, I was 320 in april, seems between 20-60 every 6 months to a year when I am in.

Decibel Sum Hearing loss, The instructions for reading the audiogram are on the Table of disabilities.

what would sever be in percentages for hearing alone, I mean my hearing loss might be 1 % it`s not actioned on yet, Tinnitus is probably 5-10%, then I think there is an added 1 % for QOL, it sucks but I wouldn`t classsify it as debilitating

 

[upandatom]

what would sever be in percentages for hearing alone, I mean my hearing loss might be 1 % it`s not actioned on yet, Tinnitus is probably 5-10%, then I think there is an added 1 % for QOL, it sucks but I wouldn`t classsify it as debilitating

Severe and permanent is 300 DSHL or higher,

 

[Arty Sim]

Arty Sim,

Send a VAC message on your VAC account asking your CM to request a DEC consideration for you. Go over the DEC policy and ensure you paint a clear picture to your CM on your total physical and mental limitations. Describe everything, don't leave anything out. While you are at it, request that your CM advance an ELB and CIA application on your behalf, or, simply apply yourself. Are you on VAC Rehab or have you been? ELB and DEC require VAC Rehab. If you aren't on VAC Rehab, again, you can talk to your CM about this. Your personal situation/medical limitations may have never been properly conveyed to your CM or he/she never spoke to you in-depth on your condition and what you may be entitled to. Don't hesitate contact your CM soonest.

Steve1959

I read about some vets who have an "awesome" Case Manager, and others say their CM is a different "A" word. Where do you go when you suggest to your CM that you would like to apply for DEC status, but the CM refuses to help?. You can apply for REHAB and CIA on your own but a recommendation for DEC has to come from your CM. Is that within their power to outright refuse to help their client, shouldnt they just submit the paperwork and let VAC adjudicators decide if I`m a candidate or not?

 

[upandatom]

I read about some vets who have an "awesome" Case Manager, and others say their CM is a different "A" word. Where do you go when you suggest to your CM that you would like to apply for DEC status, but the CM refuses to help?. You can apply for REHAB and CIA on your own but a recommendation for DEC has to come from your CM. Is that within their power to outright refuse to help their client, shouldnt they just submit the paperwork and let VAC adjudicators decide if I`m a candidate or not?

I have had both,
The first one removed me from Rehab program, without having a Psych or proper treatment plan in place, she was a real C, although she did help with CIA for my PTSD which is the Permanent and Severe category. From what I understand, it was pretty much a given though.

MY current one, after reapplying, is working her ass off so I can get on the Rehab program for my hearing, which in my line of work is absolutely required. Rehab for hearing is usually not allowed because there is not a way to fix it, yes I have hearing aids and a masking device, however, I am above 300 DSHL and dropping, which I have to be able to hear customers on the phone. AT my point right now, that is getting tricky. So trying to get a rehab program for my hearing will be focused on retraining me for gainful employment where it is not such a requirement.

They still have to check boxes that would put you in CIA zone, has to be considered Permanent and Severe, as well as Job Affecting.
Some are-
Permanent and Severe,
ENrolled in an approved Rehab program for that condition,
Effects on Day to day
Effects on Employment.

This is where the new APSC is a bonus, it doesnt rely on your Income, it just looks at your Permanent and Severe categories, and from there you get grade 1/2/3.

 

[Arty Sim]

i
interesting.  CM working on DEC now. I just got a call from CVVRS saying I am not able to be gainfully employed. The DEC process almost completed.  My CM just applied for me for the CIA not long ago. looks like DEC may be done before CIA. I don't see anywhere that the CIA must be in place before DEC.

So CVVRS got your file from VAC and just made decision you are DEC and phoned you with that result? You never first had to meet with a CVVRS rep and do any physical/mental testing to see where you are at?

 

[Arty Sim]

I have had both,
The first one removed me from Rehab program, without having a Psych or proper treatment plan in place, she was a real C, although she did help with CIA for my PTSD which is the Permanent and Severe category. From what I understand, it was pretty much a given though.

MY current one, after reapplying, is working her *** off so I can get on the Rehab program for my hearing, which in my line of work is absolutely required. Rehab for hearing is usually not allowed because there is not a way to fix it, yes I have hearing aids and a masking device, however, I am above 300 DSHL and dropping, which I have to be able to hear customers on the phone. AT my point right now, that is getting tricky. So trying to get a rehab program for my hearing will be focused on retraining me for gainful employment where it is not such a requirement.

They still have to check boxes that would put you in CIA zone, has to be considered Permanent and Severe, as well as Job Affecting.
Some are-
Permanent and Severe,
ENrolled in an approved Rehab program for that condition,
Effects on Day to day
Effects on Employment.

This is where the new APSC is a bonus, it doesnt rely on your Income, it just looks at your Permanent and Severe categories, and from there you get grade 1/2/3.

So are you currently now DEC, did CVVRS contact you directly or just read your VAC file and make a recommendation back to VAC without directly involving you

 

[Amos]

So CVVRS got your file from VAC and just made decision you are DEC and phoned you with that result? You never first had to meet with a CVVRS rep and do any physical/mental testing to see where you are at?

I had to do the mental and physical testing from march of dimes before all of this.  2 days physical and 1 day mental.

 

[Amos]

IT has to be considered a Severe and Permanent disability, which for hearing is above the 300 DSHL threshold, which I am (after this weeks Audiogram,) is 375, I was 320 in april, seems between 20-60 every 6 months to a year when I am in.

Decibel Sum Hearing loss, The instructions for reading the audiogram are on the Table of disabilities.

Where do you get the info about Severe and Permanent disability numbers for hearing loss?
How do you calculate the DSHL?  I have a feeling didn't get the proper reassessment on my last hearing test. I have the results but don't know how to look and calculate them.

 

[Amos]

Another question on DEC/CIA

Can one be 100% combined disabilities, both systems and not be DEC or CIA?