DART team headed for Pakistan

[medicineman]

Add an entire J staff + as well...might as well get as many people out as possible.

MM

 

[armyvern]

Add an entire J staff + as well...might as well get as many people out as possible.

MM

Funny 5 Bge became "DART" for Haiti; I heard they were also asked to 'make like' a JTFSC (hey, apparently it's possibly in my future list of 'joints' I belong to).

I'm sure we could get the entire of Can Div deployed if we just wait a year or so.  ;D

 

[dapaterson]

(I think that HLTA is a force anti-multiplier, and a hangover from tours in Cyprus, of which I did one)

Only one hangover from Cyrus?

 

[Armymedic]

You don't get hung over if you stay drunk.

 

[Armymedic]

On the more serious side; If Canada was to deploy DART, the time frame for actual "help" could be past if we do not get our butts in gear and get ever there yesterday. Being a flood, clean drinking water and medical help (to stem the cholera epidemic thats started) was needed last week.

Its a non-issue in the Canadian news, and highly unlikely any more response is going to happen.

 

[vonGarvin]

Only one hangover from Cyrus?

Two, actually:

Now my heart is all achy-breaky.

 

[REDinstaller]

So the Technoviking doesn't dance to the music..... Only Achey Breaky Heart. Nice.

 

[armyvern]

On the more serious side; If Canada was to deploy DART, the time frame for actual "help" could be past if we do not get our butts in gear and get ever there yesterday. Being a flood, clean drinking water and medical help (to stem the cholera epidemic thats started) was needed last week.

Its a non-issue in the Canadian news, and highly unlikely any more response is going to happen.

You do realize of course that DART does not have a security element?? Pakistan is, despite the media's tendancy to downplay it, a Taliban breeding ground. I agree with you, and my subordinates who are HR'd to DART would too as we all see that the DART certainly would be useful, but that security has to be a component of any deployment in to the area in question.

My .02 cents on any thoughts for the hold-up:  No robust security element avail or cobbled together = no DART in Pakistan. I'd assume too, that staff checks are being done as we speak at some of those units able to force generate required D&S personnel & augmentees.

 

[Journeyman]

My .02 cents on any thoughts for the hold-up:  No robust security element avail or cobbled together = no DART in Pakistan.

OK, my .02 cents on any hold-up (if there is a hold-up) is that it's based only upon "lack of political interest/will."


- If the gov't decided to send the DART, they wouldn't be bothered by trifling details such as dedicated security elements, they'd say "DART, go."

- CEFCOM would say, "2 RCHA, since one of your high-readiness tasks is DART support, throw 'security issues' into your shopping cart and get on the road."

- CO 2 RCHA would likely say, "could we at least get some KY with that?"

...but the troops would make it happen.

 

[medicineman]

I thought there was supposed to be a rifle company minus as security for DART as part of the organization or did that change?

MM

 

[ModlrMike]

I thought there was supposed to be a rifle company minus as security for DART as part of the organization or did that change?

MM

I think the TO&E is intact, the question I suppose is:

Who's going to fill it?

 

[Blackadder1916]

I thought there was supposed to be a rifle company minus as security for DART as part of the organization or did that change?

MM

Not a coy(-) but a platoon - according to this fact sheet at CEFCOM.
http://www.comfec-cefcom.forces.gc.ca/pa-ap/ops/fs-fr/dart-eicc-eng.asp

Concept of operations

The DART deploys only to “permissive” environments — that is, only to regions where the government supports its presence and it will not face organized resistance to its operations.
. . . . .

DART composition

The DART has the following main elements:

DART Headquarters (42 CF members): Drawn mostly from the Canadian Forces Joint Headquarters and the Canadian Forces Joint Signal Regiment in Kingston, Ontario, DART HQ (with 27 CF members) is the link to the governments of Canada and the host nation, and to partner organizations such as the U.N. and non-governmental humanitarian aid agencies. Under the direction of the Commanding Officer, DART HQ is responsible for determining and co-ordinating all the unit’s work in the theatre of operations. DART HQ is supported directly by a Military Police Section of two CF members and a Signals Troop of 13 CF members.

DART Company Headquarters (10 CF members): “DART Company” is the main body of the DART, comprising Engineer Troop, Medical Platoon, Logistics Platoon and Defence & Security Platoon. DART Coy HQ provides command and control for its sub-units and sets their tasking priorities; it also provides a separate command team that can direct a split operation if required.

Engineer Troop (42 CF members): Engineer Troop includes both field engineers (in Water Supply Section, Heavy Equipment Section and Field Engineering Section) and construction engineers, to provide limited utilities and vertical construction services. With its Reverse Osmosis Water Purification Unit (ROWPU), Water Supply Section can produce up to 50,000 litres per day of safe drinking water, provided in bulk to the medical aid station and in bags for distribution to local residents. Once the DART camp is established, the other sections of Engineer Troop undertake other basic construction and engineer tasks required to support humanitarian aid operations.

Medical Platoon (45 CF members): The members of Medical Platoon operate a medical aid station, a small tented facility offering laboratory, pharmacy, rehydration, preventive medicine and limited obstetrics services. It does not provide surgical or trauma care services. The health care centre can serve 250 to 300 outpatients and 10 inpatients per day, depending on their needs.

Logistics Platoon (22 CF members): Logistics Platoon provides the DART with almost all its support and sustainment services, such as transport, equipment and vehicle maintenance, and supply.

Defence and Security Platoon (44 CF members): Defence and Security Platoon is the DART’s source of security and general labour services.

I think the TO&E is intact, the question I suppose is:

Who's going to fill it?

Probably the same as the other elements or individuals who make up the DART - by the units/pers who are already pre-tasked to form the DART.

 

[vonGarvin]

I loved this line:

Defence and Security Platoon (44 CF members): Defence and Security Platoon is the DART’s source of security and general labour services.

First of all, infantry platoons are 39 all ranks, 40 if you include a medic attached.  The other four?  No idea. 

I guess those extra four are to help with "general labour services". :

 

[Armymedic]

Before I respond to Vern, thanks for the org chart. What DART has is sufficient security for areas in the south of Pakistan where the floods are ravaging right now. Can it be worse than the first deployment to post-genocide Rwanda when every one still had guns and machetes?

Yes, if the DART would deploy to Pakistan, it would need to ensure security by having a location where minimal travel is required away from its AOR. The team would probably work best sited in close proximity to a refuge camp where it can provide clean drinking water and assist with the epidemics at the same time.

edit to add: ...but as it seems that the need for aid in Pakistan is so far off Canadian's radar with the wonderful summer weather we are currently enjoying, our discussion seems to be a mute point.

 

[armyvern]

Before I respond to Vern, thanks for the org chart. What DART has is sufficient security for areas in the south of Pakistan where the floods are ravaging right now. ...

Well, that doesn't jive with the briefing I recd last week.

 

[Armymedic]

Who is trying to say that 120 armed professional Canadian soldiers with robust ROEs can not provide sufficient security for themselves, while working amongst civilians under austere conditions in a well sited position?

I would imagine that the proposed mission envisioned is not quite the same as what I know of DART's potential role in such a disaster.

 

[vonGarvin]

Providing security is a 100% of the time job.  One must be vigilant, watch for threats, and so on, and so forth. 

 

[greentoblue]

I loved this line:First of all, infantry platoons are 39 all ranks, 40 if you include a medic attached.  The other four?  No idea. 

I guess those extra four are to help with "general labour services". :

From Op HESTIA (Haiti) I believe those four extra bodies are an MP det to liaise with local police as well as handle prisoners.  On HESTIA the MP det was kept busy assisting the embassy with security, screening repat civilians and liaising with the Haitian National Police and US Military Police for combined/joint airfield security.  Oh yes, they also provided Close Protection to various commanders as I recall.

 

[vonGarvin]

From Op HESTIA (Haiti) I believe those four extra bodies are an MP det to liaise with local police as well as handle prisoners.  On HESTIA the MP det was kept busy assisting the embassy with security, screening repat civilians and liaising with the Haitian National Police and US Military Police for combined/joint airfield security.  Oh yes, they also provided Close Protection to various commanders as I recall.

Makes sense.  Thanks. 

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Who is trying to say that 120 armed professional Canadian soldiers with robust ROEs can not provide sufficient security for themselves, while working amongst civilians under austere conditions in a well sited position?

I would imagine that the proposed mission envisioned is not quite the same as what I know of DART's potential role in such a disaster.

One thing we are missing here is would Pakistan allow us to send a security detachment along with the DART? Allowing an armed foreign military force into Pakistan would be a very political sensitive subject, especially in light of various warnings from Islamic fundamentalist groups that foreigners are not welcome. The alternative would be for the Pakistani forces to provide security, which if I was a DART member would not give a warm fuzzy feeling. Its entirely possible that this may be one of the hang-ups that is delaying the deployment of the DART into Pakistan.