CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21

[Cloud Cover]

I agree but the party and the media will skewer her.

 

[ballz]

Second, I'm amazed at how often he drops the "I'm a veteran" card. I think he can be proud of his service but he makes it sound like he's been at the heart of the nation's defence policy rather than having had a career as a journeyman navigator who has never seemed to hold any significant staff positions.

I find it cringey. He was OFP for three years... calling him a journeyman even seems like a bit of a stretch.

 

[FJAG]

I find it cringey. He was OFP for three years... calling him a journeyman even seems like a bit of a stretch.

"OFP" ?

 

[ModlrMike]

Operationally Functional Point. Otherwise know as the point in time where you're qualified in your trade enough to be deployed on operations.

 

[mariomike]

The Machiavellian thing to do would be to go with Lewis. A black, female, successful immigrant. Use the Liberal's playbook against them.

I'm no political strategist. But, the Machiavellians on Canada Team Red might be hoping that is exactly what Team Blue does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslyn_Lewis#2015_federal_election

 

[Navy_Pete]

I think either socially conservative candidates would be a Liberal party dream; it would almost be an automatic W in the next election. They wouldn't lose any seats that aren't already hard Conservative ridings and would probably pick up enough votes to get back a bunch of the swing ridings.

Wanting to roll back the clock decades on social reforms isn't conservative, that's regressive. Canadians have been pretty loud and clear that there is no interest in going back to only opposite sex marriage or reopening the abortion debate. Scheer lost just for having personal social conservative views and people not trusting they would become policy; openly advocating for social conservative laws would be a nice, comfy ride back to majority for the Liberals. I hate politics, but seems like a no brainer to me that it's better to cut your losses and accept that you won't change some things to enact other policies, rather then stand by a platform that keeps losing.

I'd at least think about voting for a Con party lead by MacKay or O'Toole, with either of the other two I'd be hoping the NDP or Greens ditch the crazier fringe bits and provide a reasonable alternative to the Liberals.

 

[brihard]

I think either socially conservative candidates would be a Liberal party dream; it would almost be an automatic W in the next election. They wouldn't lose any seats that aren't already hard Conservative ridings and would probably pick up enough votes to get back a bunch of the swing ridings.

Wanting to roll back the clock decades on social reforms isn't conservative, that's regressive. Canadians have been pretty loud and clear that there is no interest in going back to only opposite sex marriage or reopening the abortion debate. Scheer lost just for having personal social conservative views and people not trusting they would become policy; openly advocating for social conservative laws would be a nice, comfy ride back to majority for the Liberals. I hate politics, but seems like a no brainer to me that it's better to cut your losses and accept that you won't change some things to enact other policies, rather then stand by a platform that keeps losing.

I'd at least think about voting for a Con party lead by MacKay or O'Toole, with either of the other two I'd be hoping the NDP or Greens ditch the crazier fringe bits and provide a reasonable alternative to the Liberals.

100%. I would in all likelihood vote CPC if MacKay (preference) or O'Toole (acceptable) are the leader. Not a chance I'll vote for them if led by one of the social conservatives. Social conservatism, inasmuch as it informs party policy platforms, is on the decline in Canada. It will not be a path to power for the CPC, and there is an opportunity cost in courting those votes.

 

[ballz]

"OFP" ?

As noted above, Occupational Functional Point... in other words, he was actually fully trained for his position for 3 years. The other 10 were in RMC or in the training system.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I think either socially conservative candidates would be a Liberal party dream; it would almost be an automatic W in the next election. They wouldn't lose any seats that aren't already hard Conservative ridings and would probably pick up enough votes to get back a bunch of the swing ridings.

Wanting to roll back the clock decades on social reforms isn't conservative, that's regressive. Canadians have been pretty loud and clear that there is no interest in going back to only opposite sex marriage or reopening the abortion debate. Scheer lost just for having personal social conservative views and people not trusting they would become policy; openly advocating for social conservative laws would be a nice, comfy ride back to majority for the Liberals. I hate politics, but seems like a no brainer to me that it's better to cut your losses and accept that you won't change some things to enact other policies, rather then stand by a platform that keeps losing.

I'd at least think about voting for a Con party lead by MacKay or O'Toole, with either of the other two I'd be hoping the NDP or Greens ditch the crazier fringe bits and provide a reasonable alternative to the Liberals.

Her response on these points https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73btfqnEjPU

 

[FJAG]

As noted above, Occupational Functional Point... in other words, he was actually fully trained for his position for 3 years. The other 10 were in RMC or in the training system.

:facepalm:

 

[mariomike]

Anyone interested in opinion polling,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Conservative_Party_of_Canada_leadership_election#After_candidate_registration_deadline

 

[brihard]

Anyone interested in opinion polling,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Conservative_Party_of_Canada_leadership_election#After_candidate_registration_deadline

Note that support for MacKay is high among 'all Canadians'. You can infer something about the centrist vote from that. The party loyalists will vote the party pretty much regardless; the pressure release valve for the problem children still exists in the form of the PPC. MacKay is the most likely path towards pulling in undecided moderate voters. Probably also the CPC's best bet for building the war chest they'll need for an eventual election.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Her response on these points https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73btfqnEjPU

She's definitely smart, but what I heard was a bunch of sidestep justifications to limit abortion access by placing additional impediments for problems that may not exist, while arbitrarily cutting all overseas funding for abortion. Is that anything related to providers? What about abortion for rape/incest cases overseas? And she repeatedly sidestepped the question about gay marriage, while doing the same dance for the conversion therapy under the guise of the role of parents and family (which usually means the atomic man/woman relationship).

I think she's probably a great lawyer, but I don't think I trust her to create policy without trying to roll back social reforms under the guise of doing it for someone else. The fact that the pro lifers support her means there is more to what she is saying then just what's in her platform, and it's not as straightforward as what she is saying.

 

[brihard]

She's definitely smart, but what I heard was a bunch of sidestep justifications to limit abortion access by placing additional impediments for problems that may not exist, while arbitrarily cutting all overseas funding for abortion. Is that anything related to providers? What about abortion for rape/incest cases overseas? And she repeatedly sidestepped the question about gay marriage, while doing the same dance for the conversion therapy under the guise of the role of parents and family (which usually means the atomic man/woman relationship).

I think she's probably a great lawyer, but I don't think I trust her to create policy without trying to roll back social reforms under the guise of doing it for someone else. The fact that the pro lifers support her means there is more to what she is saying then just what's in her platform, and it's not as straightforward as what she is saying.

I don’t trust her at all not to try to roll back the rights and equality of some people close to me. Being green lighted by the ‘campaign life coalition’ is a huge red flag.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I really wish Rona Ambrose would have entered the race. 

I truly think she would have been able to capture the vote rich center of the countries electorate and topple this feeble Liberal party and its leader once and for all.

I have played rugby with and against MacKay many times, shared many beers with him post match.  He is a good man, he is my second, now first, choice.  And I think he will capture some of that center as well, but not as well as Ambrose would have done.

 

[FJAG]

How to ruin a political party!

Erin O'Toole camp seeks police probe, accuses MacKay camp of theft

O'Toole campaign says details of accusations shared with various police forces
The Canadian Press · Posted: Jun 20, 2020 5:53 AM ET

Conservative leadership candidate Erin O'Toole's campaign says it has filed a formal complaint with police seeking an investigation of his rival Peter MacKay's organization.

In a release late Friday, O'Toole's campaign says the complaint involves the theft of confidential campaign and strategy data.

It says the O'Toole campaign's systems were hacked earlier this week.

It names MacKay campaign organizer Jamie Lall.

In a brief tweet, Lall said not a single word of the allegation is true.

The O'Toole release says details have been shared with RCMP, Ontario Provincial Police and Toronto police.

...

:brickwall:

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Why would you accuse the Mackay camp? If you think you have been hacked (and I am not doubting the claim), just go to the cops and lay a complaint. You do not have to name a suspect, in a press release.

And this is how we get corrupt Liberal government for decades on end- because the opposition destroys itself.

 

[Haggis]

And this is how we get corrupt Liberal government for decades on end- because the opposition destroys itself.

Personally I think all four CPC candidates are lacklustre.

MacKay is too "red", O'Toole too "blue", Sloan too "out there" and Lewis too unknown and unpredictable for the centrists.

 

[Remius]

Why would you accuse the Mackay camp? If you think you have been hacked (and I am not doubting the claim), just go to the cops and lay a complaint. You do not have to name a suspect, in a press release.

And this is how we get corrupt Liberal government for decades on end- because the opposition destroys itself.

What does O’toole’s internal polling show?  That might be the reason. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Navy_Pete] while arbitrarily cutting all overseas funding for abortion. [/quote]

Are we talking about paying for Canadian citizens to get a ortions while abroad or are we talking about Canada paying for other countries citizens to get abortions?