Cop guns down deaf, old Native American.

[bdave]

Didn't see this posted anywhere; it probably doesn't belong here.
This is just so shocking and abysmal that I feel I have to post it.
Not trying to stir the pot. I'm just putting it out there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1VKo6-m27c&feature=player_embedded

 

[Thompson_JM]

Hard to speculate with no footage of the actual incident there..

All we have is the Audio soundtrack which clearly has the officer stating "Put the knife down"

I think until official reports come out, anything said in regards to this is pure speculation.

 

[Brutus]

Hard to speculate with no footage of the actual incident there..

All we have is the Audio soundtrack which clearly has the officer stating "Put the knife down"

I think until official reports come out, anything said in regards to this is pure speculation.

According to news sources, the carver is a deaf (partially) native man from BC, his knife was 3 inches long (legal), and was found folded by back up officers (and not open as originally stated by the officer that did the shooting). There is a public inquiry into this in January and the officer has been told to surender his sidearm and badge pending the hearing.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/432014_williams18.html?source=mypi

 

[Container]

I believe the police officer from the incident was released from the service for some other behavior issues. If I recall correctly anyways.

I havent watched the footage again, but I can assure you that one of the things people know nothing about when it comes to use of force is that there is zero tolerance involved with knives. Common training includes that under 21 feet of distance between an officer and a person with a knife can be crossed at so fast a rate that you can expect to be stabbed by anyone motivated to get to you. Obstacles, cover, and shoot if they continue to close the reactionary gap.

Of course situational factors can change this up, like a carver with a kinfe and a piece of wood. Just like I dont shoot hunters in the woods when I need to talk to them and they are carrying rifles.

But again Ill have to watch the video later.

 

[Container]

It very well could have been closed when he was shot, or it could have been closed when he fell, or he closed it when he was approaching the police and they didnt notice it. You'd have to know more than we do for that to mean anything.

Also, police die from "legal" weapons as much as illegal ones.

I had a carver try and bury a hatchet in my back when I turned to speak to his wife. The utility of the weapon isnt important.

It sounds to me like this guy has some issues, and the shooting may well turn out to be non "justified". But it needs facts not offered in the news to come to that conclusion.

 

[Brutus]

It very well could have been closed when he was shot, or it could have been closed when he fell, or he closed it when he was approaching the police and they didnt notice it. You'd have to know more than we do for that to mean anything.

Also, police die from "legal" weapons as much as illegal ones.

I had a carver try and bury a hatchet in my back when I turned to speak to his wife. The utility of the weapon isnt important.

It sounds to me like this guy has some issues, and the shooting may well turn out to be non "justified". But it needs facts not offered in the news to come to that conclusion.

I wasn't making a judgement here, just posting what I read.

1-The 'closed vs. open' point is obvious (a closed knife being of less threat than an open one).
2- The legal length point was (I think) made to demonstrate that the knife itself was legal, and that he was legally entitled to carry it provided he acted in an otherwise legal manner.
3- I know you didn't mention it, but the dead man's deafness obviously is alluding to his capacity to hear and obey the commands. But like you said, we certainly don't know enough to start passing judgement.

 

[Container]

I wasn't making a judgement here, just posting what I read.

1-The 'closed vs. open' point is obvious (a closed knife being of less threat than an open one).
2- The legal length point was (I think) made to demonstrate that the knife itself was legal, and that he was legally entitled to carry it provided he acted in an otherwise legal manner.
3- I know you didn't mention it, but the dead man's deafness obviously is alluding to his capacity to hear and obey the commands. But like you said, we certainly don't know enough to start passing judgement.

The deafness is a nonstarter for anyone in law enforcement. We cant ask people for medical history. He has been in Seattle for 15 years and doesnt know that when a cop has his gun drawn and is yelling at you that he might be concerned about your knife?

Thats more than deaf.

The reason that the knife legality is irrelevant is because until the police officers is satisfied that its present "legally" we are trained to treat it like it isnt. This police officer just has a terrible "bed side manner".

Im not defending the officer. I think its all hinkey- but I cant really tell. I wait and see what comes out of the inquiry. Like you said as well.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

We're not doing this. What's shocking and abysmal is the inflammatory thread title and the attempt to paint someone before his day in court.

We're not going to sit here and speculate on any of it. NO ONE here knows or can even make an educated guess.

News sources aren't credible enough to take as gospel. This'll be up to the courts. The cop is innocent until proven guilty, by the court.

You can post the results then.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[George Wallace]

UPDATE

Reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act

The Seattle Times Company

Birk resigns from Seattle Police Department

Officer Ian Birk has resigned from the Seattle Police Department, effective at 4 p.m. Wednesday.

Originally published February 16, 2011 at 4:06 PM | Page modified February 17, 2011 at 11:13 AM

By Seattle Times staff
LINK

Officer Ian Birk has resigned from the Seattle Police Department, according to Police Chief John Diaz.

Birk's resignation became effective at 4 p.m. Wednesday.

According to a statement by Diaz, Birk communicated his intentions to him to resign his commission with the Police Department.

Birk, 27, joined the department in July 2008.

On Wednesday, King County Prosecuting Attorney Dan Satterberg said his office would not file criminal charges against Birk for the fatal shooting of First Nations woodcarver John T. Williams on Aug. 30.

Diaz also announced that the shooting of Williams was ruled not justified by the department's Firearms Review Board.

Birk's resignation will not halt the department's internal investigation into Birk, Diaz said.

"At my direction, the Office of Professional Accountability investigation will continue forward," Diaz said. "The completion of this investigation is not contingent on Ian Birk remaining on the force. Reaching our own administrative conclusion is a necessary step to providing a small degree of closure to the many people affected by this tragedy over the past several months."

Diaz said that if the Office of Professional Accountability (OPA) presents him with a recommendation for discipline it will be kept on file with the department and a copy will be sent to the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission.

Depending on the department's findings, the move could prevent Birk from becoming a law enforcement officer anywhere in the state.

Joe Hawe, executive director of the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission, said it will be up to the commission to review the case and conduct its own investigation.

"Our responsibility under the law is to review any investigative issue for the decertification of police officers," Hawe said.

If the commission determines that Birk should be decertified then "he would not be able to be a police officer in the state of Washington," Hawe said on Wednesday.

Satterberg's decision angered members of Williams' family and prompted a handful of public protests on Wednesday. Protesters outside Seattle City Hall cheered when they received word of Birk's resignation. Several chanted "prosecute!"

Birk had been stripped of his gun and badge last October as a result of a preliminary finding by the department that the shooting was unjustified.

Mayor Mike McGinn issued a statement in which he cited the OPA investigation and review board's findings. "It appears clear that Officer Birk saw the writing on the wall. He could read the same Firearms Review Board report that the rest of us did," McGinn said.

Attorney Ted Buck, who represented Birk during a January inquest into the shooting, called the officer's resignation "a heartbreaking thing."

"He is an extraordinary, committed young man," Buck said. "This is a career that has been tragically cut short. It's been an extraordinarily emotional and traumatic event, and he has decided it is in his best interest and his family's interest to simply move forward."

Rita Williams, John T. Williams' sister in Vernon, B.C., said Birk's resignation offered no comfort for her family.

"He still killed my brother. He basically got away with murder," she said. "If I shot anyone in the police station they would have all hung me by now. We should all go back to the olden ways, when he would have to pay for what he had done."

Andrea Brenneke, attorney for the Williams family, said that her clients are "heartened" by the fact the Seattle Police Department will continue its investigation into Birk. She said that "it's good for everyone" that the findings will be forwarded to the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission.

"It simply means that within this department and within other departments he will be held accountable for what he did in this case," she said. "It's important for the community to know that. It is of critical importance."

Brenneke said that Birk's resignation will not impact potential civil actions that could be brought by the Williams family.

Seattle Times staff reporters Lynda V. Mapes, Jennifer Sullivan and Christine Clarridge contributed to this report.

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