Concerns Prompt Sweeping Review of Royal Military College- Nov. 2/ 2016

[ballz]

The CF is informing the parents of the "children" at RMC?

An adult might consider this a very inappropriate breach of their privacy by their employer....

 

[George Wallace]

An adult might consider this a very inappropriate breach of their privacy by their employer....

Furthering the mantra that they are being treated as children........Something that began creeping into the Cbt Arms back in the '80s.

 

[ballz]

Furthering the mantra that they are being treated as children........

Yup.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

An adult might consider this a very inappropriate breach of their privacy by their employer....

You win the Internet for today.

 

[McG]

Maybe the problem is the fact that there are a lot of overachievers that go there who have never failed or struggled with anything in their life. I know I struggled with academics my first year, I went from 88% in Highschool to 63% at RMC in the first semester, it was hard on the ego but again it was part of the learning experience. But again its good preparation for life in the military, you will fail at things (whether its an assessment on phase training, or your boss hates your plan and wants you to start over). 

I cannot speak of RMC from any first hand experience or observations.  However, I have seen exactly what you identify get played out with ROTP OCdts going through training at CFSME.  Individuals who have never experienced failure in their lives are suddenly unable to cope with a situation not going the way they want.  They freeze or become ineffective on a task site, and they break into crying during the PRB.  Shit happens, and as a society we need to expose our children to it or they will not be able to deal with it when they are adults.

Anyway, the CAF decides to investigate where it sees a potential problem and instantly those with an axe to grind declare it to be about cover-up.  I suppose nay-sayers would have been happier if the CAF did nothing.  Certainly, "nothing" would have given nothing to complain about.

Concerns raised over all-military team tasked with probing military college
'It will be seen by cadets as the military investigating itself,' says Lawyer Michael Drapeau
Lee Berthiaume, The Canadian Press
CBC News
02 Nov 16

The Canadian Forces came under fire Wednesday for leaving academics and other non-military personnel off the team investigating the Royal Military College of Canada, which has been rocked by a series of troubling events in recent months.

That omission was not intentional, the senior officer overseeing the probe said Wednesday; the military had been considering ways to give civilian faculty at the college some type of advisory role on the team.

But in the end, said Vice-Admiral Mark Norman, the team of eight current and former service members was convened specifically to address the college's unique status as not just a school, but also a military unit.

"At the end of the day, this is the leadership of the armed forces looking at the unit environment of a unit of the armed forces," Norman said in an interview. "And that's our business."

The review, announced Wednesday, was ordered by defence chief Gen. Jonathan Vance following several suspected suicides and concerns about a sexualized culture at the prestigious school in Kingston, Ont.

Given the serious nature of the issues that have emerged in recent years, observers largely welcomed the decision to investigate the college, where future generations of Canadian military leaders have been groomed for the last 140 years.

But the absence of non-military personnel on the investigation team raised eyebrows.

The eight-member team is being led by retired vice-admiral Greg Maddison and retired major-general David Neasmith, and includes several colonels and chief warrant officers who are still in uniform.

"I'm always concerned when a committee is made up, in this case, entirely of military personnel," said Julie Lalonde, who was verbally abused while giving a presentation on sexual assault prevention at the college in October 2014.

"I would say the same if this was a police review or what's happening with the RCMP around workplace harassment. Clearly if these institutions had the capacity to create the necessary change, they would have done so already."

Lawyer Michael Drapeau, a retired colonel who now represents many military clients, including military college cadets, wants a coroner's inquest following the suspected suicides of three students and a recent graduate over a four-month stretch earlier this year.

"I see this as a cover-your-butt exercise," Drapeau said. "It's being done in-house by the military for the military. And it will be seen by cadets as the military investigating itself."

One faculty member, speaking on condition of anonymity out of fear of reprisals, cited a rift between the college's military staff and civilian faculty, and questioned why someone from an outside university or college wasn't asked to participate.

Investigators officially started their work on Wednesday and will spend the next two months looking at all aspects of the college, from the institution's climate and culture to its academic programs and infrastructure.

The review will put a heavy emphasis on assessing the mental state of the college's approximately 1,000 student cadets by looking at stress levels and available support, as well as overall morale levels.

It will also look at how staff are selected and whether they have the right training and qualifications to be working at the college, as well as the structure of the program.

Former chief of defence staff Tom Lawson, who served as college's commandant from 2007 to 2009, said he was "heartened" that the military's senior leadership was taking action to address the problems that have surfaced at the school.

"One must characterize the loss of several cadets in a relatively short period of time as unique in its tragedy, and in the effects these losses have had on the student body and staff," he said.

"Therefore, it called for unique action."  

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/royal-military-college-inquiry-panel-1.3833783

 

[Ostrozac]

Perhaps it's time to rethink enrolling anyone under the age of 18, so there will be no more "parental permission" required.

But the model of the Canadian Forces operating a militarized university and a militarized CEGEP almost requires that we enrol 'child soldiers', as we have students finishing high school at age 16 and 17 and Canada lacks a gap year culture. Any movement to increase the enrolment age would have to be accompanied by a wholesale examination of the role of the ROTP program.

The cynic in me suspects that an organization focused on zero-tolerance for sexual misconduct and sexual humour probably has no business running a university -- young people in those numbers get up to shenanigans, some criminal, some merely inappropriate, but a military university will be a constant obstacle in the goal of zero-tolerance. If we switch to educating our officers through ROTP Civi U and IBDP then at least the CF can shift blame to Concordia or U of T's internal policies whenever there's an incident.

 

[dapaterson]

But the model of the Canadian Forces operating a militarized university and a militarized CEGEP almost requires that we enrol 'child soldiers', as we have students finishing high school at age 16 and 17 and Canada lacks a gap year culture. Any movement to increase the enrolment age would have to be accompanied by a wholesale examination of the role of the ROTP program.

Precisely.  If the UK can run Sandhurst as an officer finishing school and not as a university, I fail to see why the vital ground is the preservation of the ability to issue degrees.

When founded, RMC addressed a shortfall in engineering education in Canada.  Today, we can get engineers from multiple sources.  (The true need for engineers in the CAF also needs to be re-examined - how many jobs truly require an engineering degree?)  So, if there are viable sources other than RMC, why preserve it as is?

 

[McG]

Why?  Well, weseem to like investing in pride before capability.

 

[tomahawk6]

Do you really need a degree to be an officer in the first place ? A small military like the CF might be better off just commissioning from Officer Candidate Schools and commission directly from civilian life for the technical or medical degrees that might be needed.

 

[dapaterson]

The Degreed Officer Corps is part of the fallout of the Somalia inquiry; the Report to the Prime Minister on the Leadership and Management of the Canadian Forces in 1997 decreed it (with some limited exceptions).  Unfortunately, I do not foresee any appetite to revisit that decision - which in turn feeds the perceived importance of the Royal Military College.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Suicide: it's 'trending' with millennials....

"Feeling entitled to a special life can be problematic, especially if adults forgot to tell you:

•Life can be hard and disappointing.
•Life does not revolve around you.
•Life must not be lived in comparison to others."


What’s Happening to College Students Today?

I have a sad story to tell you...

I have a sad story to tell you. On January 17, 2014, a beautiful, talented student athlete at the University of Pennsylvania jumped off the top of a parking garage and killed herself. No one, not even her close family, saw this coming.

Her name was Madison Holleran. She was a freshman at Penn. Perhaps the saddest part is that she was the third of six Penn students to commit suicide within a period of just over a year.

Unfortunately, this is far from an isolated event in college life these days. Suicide “clusters” have become common in the last decade. This year, Appalachian State lost at least three students; Cornell experienced six suicides; Tulane lost four students just five years ago; and five NYU students leapt to their deaths in the 2004-2005 school year.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/artificial-maturity/201511/what-s-happening-college-students-today

 

[Pusser]

The Degreed Officer Corps is part of the fallout of the Somalia inquiry; the Report to the Prime Minister on the Leadership and Management of the Canadian Forces in 1997 decreed it (with some limited exceptions).  Unfortunately, I do not foresee any appetite to revisit that decision - which in turn feeds the perceived importance of the Royal Military College.

That is indeed true.  The interesting thing is that all the key officers who failed in Somalia and were the root cause of the Inquiry, all had degrees and can anyone guess from which institution(s)?  >

 

[RCPalmer]

Suicide: it's 'trending' with millennials....

"Feeling entitled to a special life can be problematic, especially if adults forgot to tell you:

•Life can be hard and disappointing.
•Life does not revolve around you.
•Life must not be lived in comparison to others."


What’s Happening to College Students Today?

I have a sad story to tell you...

I have a sad story to tell you. On January 17, 2014, a beautiful, talented student athlete at the University of Pennsylvania jumped off the top of a parking garage and killed herself. No one, not even her close family, saw this coming.

Her name was Madison Holleran. She was a freshman at Penn. Perhaps the saddest part is that she was the third of six Penn students to commit suicide within a period of just over a year.

Unfortunately, this is far from an isolated event in college life these days. Suicide “clusters” have become common in the last decade. This year, Appalachian State lost at least three students; Cornell experienced six suicides; Tulane lost four students just five years ago; and five NYU students leapt to their deaths in the 2004-2005 school year.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/artificial-maturity/201511/what-s-happening-college-students-today

We tend to think of suicide as an issue of the young because it is a leading cause of death among that group, but that is because they are for the most part not dying of other things. If you look at suicide across the population, here are a few important things to keep in mind:

1. Suicide rates in Canada overall have been on a gentle decline since 1982.  The change is likely more dramatic due to increased reporting due to a decrease in the social stigma associated with labeling a death a suicide:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-624-x/2012001/article/chart/11696-02-chart1-eng.htm

2. Suicide rates are highest amongst the 40-59 age group:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-624-x/2012001/article/chart/11696-02-chart4-eng.htm

3. Suicide rates among the very young (15-19 years) have remained static for the last 40 years, but the proportion of suicide deaths compared to deaths overall have increased significantly due to decreases in mortality due to accidents:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-624-x/2012001/article/11696-eng.htm

Attributing causality is difficult in these cases as there are a lot of factors at play. If we are thinking about generational resiliency I think we need to be cautious about blanket statements about the characteristics and upbringing of a generation.  This is not to say that there aren't any changes.  I would offer that perhaps millennials have different expectations from prior generations and are more likely to complain or articulate their anxiety when those expectations aren't met. This appears to be creating challenges for the military, academic institutions, and employers.

However, I am not convinced that the "suck it up and get on with life" model applied in prior generations was leading to better outcomes, particularly from a mental health standpoint.

Link to the full StatsCan summary:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-624-x/2012001/article/11696-eng.htm

 

[FJAG]

The Degreed Officer Corps is part of the fallout of the Somalia inquiry; the Report to the Prime Minister on the Leadership and Management of the Canadian Forces in 1997 decreed it (with some limited exceptions).  Unfortunately, I do not foresee any appetite to revisit that decision - which in turn feeds the perceived importance of the Royal Military College.

Full disclosure: I'm a graduate of the OCTP program so have always felt that degreed general service officers (especially RMC) were highly overrated. The only advantage to a degree (IMHO) is that the individual has a few more years of life under his/her belt (and therefore arguably, maturity) before becoming a leader with the trade-off that his/her average potential years of service actually doing the job will be reduced by an equal amount

To me the best officer corps mix is one that has a roughly equal distribution of:

1. officers with degrees (including RMC);

2. officers coming straight in from high school and given intensive basic officer training (OCTP);

3. officers selected through a "junior" CFR program amongst young, enthusiastic and capable privates and corporals; and

4. officers selected trhough a "senior" CFR program selecting sergeants and WOs for conversion to the officer track.

That type of system brings a wider range of experience and knowledge to the officer corps as a whole and (again IMHO) would result in an officer corps more broadly connected to the troops that they lead.

:2c:

 

[Canuck_Jock]

But the model of the Canadian Forces operating a militarized university and a militarized CEGEP almost requires that we enrol 'child soldiers', as we have students finishing high school at age 16 and 17 and Canada lacks a gap year culture. Any movement to increase the enrolment age would have to be accompanied by a wholesale examination of the role of the ROTP program.

The cynic in me suspects that an organization focused on zero-tolerance for sexual misconduct and sexual humour probably has no business running a university -- young people in those numbers get up to shenanigans, some criminal, some merely inappropriate, but a military university will be a constant obstacle in the goal of zero-tolerance. If we switch to educating our officers through ROTP Civi U and IBDP then at least the CF can shift blame to Concordia or U of T's internal policies whenever there's an incident.

You know, it took about 25 years but I finally understood something a fellow band member mentioned to me in the early 1980s. He was a Logistics Captain based at Wolseley Bks London and had been commissioned from the ranks through RMC. He mentioned that he enjoyed going to university but felt the military aspect detracted from it and it should be separate. I myself went to a civvie university and then subsequently on a commissioning course.

From the UK side of the pond:

1. The military colleges (RMAS, RAFC, BRNC) produce a junior officer: leadership, command and service knowledge, ready for their first command. There are some academics on the commissioning courses, but meant to keep minds sharp, not main effort.

2. Graduate officers receive the best education that civil academia can offer. Military universities cannot compete with civvie unis on quality. On the other hand, the UK has a partnership with a number of universities to deliver sp to service courses, e.g. KCL at JSCSC. The only HE institution run, the Royal Military College of Science (folded into Cranfield) specialised, primarily, in niche postgrad tech subjects. Arguably, an appropriate model for any military institution is a civil-military partnership that delivers through life career Staff and specialised Postgrad course.

3. Is OTC worth reviving? The Army gets....off the top of my head...40% of its officers from that source. After 3/4 years at uni in OTC, officers are better prepared to succeed on their commissioning course. Candidates can also compete for bursaries (scholarships) to subsidise education. OTC bods not going into the Regular Armed Forces often go into the Reserves. But, OTC is also seen as being civ-mil engagement for those staying civvies.

4. Degree not mandatory, only passing AOSB/OASC/AIB. Most youngsters will go to university due to that being the way things are. About <10% of my course were non-grads, I wish I had their confidence at their ages.

Just a few thoughts...

 

[daftandbarmy]

That type of system brings a wider range of experience and knowledge to the officer corps as a whole and (again IMHO) would result in an officer corps more broadly connected to the troops that they lead.

:2c:

.... especially if you shake up the hierarchy of training and your Officer Corps trains alongside and with your 'other ranks', as do some units with especially high esprit de corps, battle efficiency and unit cohesion, like the Paras and Royal Marines.

 

[clownfool]

Having a degree is more than just a check off the box. It shows that you know how to LEARN. University shapes your mind, and to think critically. These skills you can't pick up anywhere else. If an officer/officer cadet isn't able to put himself/herself through university, what does that mean?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Having a degree is more than just a check off the box. It shows that you know how to LEARN. University shapes your mind, and to think critically. These skills you can't pick up anywhere else. If an officer/officer cadet isn't able to put himself/herself through university, what does that mean?

Really ? op:

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Having a degree is more than just a check off the box. It shows that you know how to LEARN. University shapes your mind, and to think critically. These skills you can't pick up anywhere else. If an officer/officer cadet isn't able to put himself/herself through university, what does that mean?

Please- enlighten us. What does it mean?

I am not anti-education. I am a product of the military college system. That does not stop me from questioning the current value for money delivered by RMC/CMR. Or the value of having all junior officers university educated.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Having a degree is more than just a check off the box. It shows that you know how to LEARN. University shapes your mind, and to think critically. These skills you can't pick up anywhere else. If an officer/officer cadet isn't able to put himself/herself through university, what does that mean?

Yes, what does that mean?

With your vast experience in both the military and academia . . .

I was enrolled about two weeks before school started as an ROTP officer cadet. In all of British Columbia, there were only two of us that actually got this offer at such a weird time, so yes, very rare. I heard that this a new thing that just started this year. I wasn't even assigned a MOSID.

Everything is coming together though. I'm getting my military ID in a few weeks time, but I don't have a uniform and I have no idea when I'm going to CFLRS either.

. . . give us the benefit of your knowledge of what it takes.