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Compulsory Occupational Transfer [COT] questions

Navyynick

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Sorry if this was already asked, but for Med COT you DO retain rank and pay correct? a CPL will not get demoted from a Med Cot correct?
 

garb811

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Navyynick said:
Sorry if this was already asked, but for Med COT you DO retain rank and pay correct? a CPL will not get demoted from a Med Cot correct?
You will retain the Cpl rank. This is true of a VOT as well, nobody gets demoted below Cpl/LS as a result of a *OT.
 

Sub_Guy

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Banana said:
I haven’t gone to the MIR because I don’t want to get recoursed.

Go to MIR. We all get it, but at the end of the day you need to take care of yourself.

The last thing you want is to be deemed unfit for the trade or medically released in a few years because you can’t walk.

I don’t think you’ll find anyone on here who has never once thought what I quoted from your post.
 

BeyondTheNow

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dapaterson said:
Nope.  QR&O 3.01 still has not been amended, so despite the CRCN, the rank is still LS.

New rank structure took effect 4th Sep.
 

dapaterson

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Legal authority for designation of rank is NDA 21(2), as expressed in QR&O 3.01, under the authority of the Governor in Council.

CRCN has no legal authority to issue an order changing it.

 

BeyondTheNow

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dapaterson said:
Legal authority for designation of rank is NDA 21(2), as expressed in QR&O 3.01, under the authority of the Governor in Council.

CRCN has no legal authority to issue an order changing it.

While that may be so, ‘whatever’ powers that be have put it into full effect across the RCN. How that translates in writing isn’t up to me. Technicality at this point...just passing the info along.
 

Navyynick

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I got my disclosure package from DMCA last week and accepted the CMOT offer. Does anyone know the average wait time until a message is cut for training/BTL posting after forwarding the offer back to DMCA,

Thanks
 

MJP

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Navyynick said:
I got my disclosure package from DMCA last week and accepted the CMOT offer. Does anyone know the average wait time until a message is cut for training/BTL posting after forwarding the offer back to DMCA,

Thanks

DGMC-5 is fairly fast so usually within 30 days or less.
 

LogO Air

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I got my disclosure package from DMCA last week and accepted the CMOT offer. Does anyone know the average wait time until a message is cut for training/BTL posting after forwarding the offer back to DMCA,

Thanks
Hi, i did my interview with pso for cmot 3 weeks ago, i did not receive the offer yet. Is the delay normal? Is the offer sent by Email or Mail (post)?
Thank you
 

Ackack952

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I am a Sgt, MOSID 00368 Gunner, going through the AR/MEL process for LOW RISK MELs which have resulted in CO recommended CMOT or COT (med) whichever you prefer. Diagnosis was June of 2016.

Timeline I received correspondence has been as follows:

18 Jul 2018 DND4345 AR/MEL
5 Mar 2020 DMCA Advisory CMOT
7 Jun 2020 Initial PSO Appt
20 Oct 2020 PSO Assessment Sent
20 Oct 2020 DND 4495 in Serv Sel form
10 Feb 2021 Discl Pack / Offer
8 Mar 2021 Decision Letter

Process was definitely hindered by the pandemic. Every piece of correspondence took me prompting my CoC, CClk and Adjt (sorry guys but you are your own CM as they say). My initial AR/MEL file was lost between a posting from Halifax to Petawawa in 2018 so I continued to serve as a Gunner for 2 more years before the ball started rolling. CMOT accepted offering is MOSID 00149 Firefighter effective 12 Apr 2021.

I'm currently waiting for an admin instruction to follow from DMCPG 5-3. Hope this helps somebody else.

QUESTIONS I HAVE

1. Does anyone know when I can expect my VOT Message from DMCPG 5-3?

2. Does my future Occupation CM have any input in cutting the VOT Message?
 

MJP

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QUESTIONS I HAVE

1. Does anyone know when I can expect my VOT Message from DMCPG 5-3?

2. Does my future Occupation CM have any input in cutting the VOT Message?
The messages are usually pretty fast for CMOT/COT but everything is a bit slower in pandemic world.

Your new occupation CM really has nothing to do with you until you are trained. They are aware that you exist in the system in that trade but almost every untrained member is managed by a separate BTL manager. I am 99% confident that J3 BTL in Borden manages untrained Firefighters. That said my experience is that in smaller trades the CM is more involved but generally that is just to ensure your are pre-positioned in right location if required once
 

Ackack952

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The messages are usually pretty fast for CMOT/COT but everything is a bit slower in pandemic world.

Your new occupation CM really has nothing to do with you until you are trained. They are aware that you exist in the system in that trade but almost every untrained member is managed by a separate BTL manager. I am 99% confident that J3 BTL in Borden manages untrained Firefighters. That said my experience is that in smaller trades the CM is more involved but generally that is just to ensure your are pre-positioned in right location if required once
Thanks for the timely response, I appreciate it!

My Adjt reached out to the CM and got pushed down through the BTL to a POC at CFFCA in Borden and they mentioned I will most likely be loaded on course January and their CM attempts to send PAT on OJE at the Firehall they intend on posting them to after the trades Qual, that's where the CM question came from.

My main concern is the timeline to expect a VOT Message / COS on a CMOT Effective 12 April 21 so I can hash out OJE with the BTL Mgr. Historically my unit has pushed my correspondence to me exceptionally late (6 months to 2 years on med docs from this AR/MEL). After that I started being my own CM and began prompting them for docs. Still I understand they are busy and don't wish to pester them needlessly.
 

KuroKuma

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Good day all,

My paperwork was sent to DMCA with my CO's recommendation for a CMOT. I was just wondering if anyone has had their process started this way and if so what the timeline looked like? Any information provided would be greatly appreciated.
 

MJP

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Good day all,

My paperwork was sent to DMCA with my CO's recommendation for a CMOT. I was just wondering if anyone has had their process started this way and if so what the timeline looked like? Any information provided would be greatly appreciated.

While not super common at a unit level it is something across the CAF that happens on a fairly regular basis.

DMCA 3 is usually pretty fast at cutting the initial message and they finish the AR process.

Good info at the DMCA 3 DWAN AR-MEL Page. Excerpt pertaining to MCOT from their aide-memoire below

3COCompliant with MOS ID Task Statements:
CO provides the CAF member with the synopsis and recommendation which he/she will consider when making a decision. The CAF member is provided the opportunity to make representations. The CO considers all of the information prior to making the decision and provides the CAF member with the decision and reasons

For Regular Force members, the CO sends the RWOR decision letter/memo to the appropriate Career Manager, Branch advisor, applicable Base/Wing Surgeon, and Case Manager (if applicable) for retention on medical files, Unit Records Section (URS) for retention on CAF member’s personnel files and a copy is provided to the CAF member.

For Primary Reserve members, the CO sends the RWOR decision letter/memo to the appropriate Primary Reserve List (if applicable), Formation and Area Headquarters, the employing CO (if applicable), Base/Wing Surgeon (medical file), personnel file, and a copy is provided to the CAF member.
4CO’s designate/ Admin ONot compliant with MOS ID Task Statements:
Discloses all documentation including case synopsis to the CAF member which relate to the fact that the member can no longer be employed in his/her MOSID and COT is recommended.
5CORefers the CAF member to the PSO for a selection assessment, as the current MELs do not meet the occupation specifications and DMCA will consider COT.

At this point the file including the PSO referral is sent to DMCA. The AR process is completed by DMCA.
6PSOConducts a selection assessment to determine whether the CAF member meets the standards and requirements for the targeted military occupation(s), which includes selection processing (e.g. cognitive ability, personality traits and person-job fit), military occupation entry standards, medical fitness and MELs.
7PSO











CO
Liaises with Director Military Careers Policy and Grievances 5 (DMCPG 5) for Regular Force members, or the CO for the Reserve Force members, to determine the availability of a unit establishment position vacancy or a Strategic Intake Plan (SIP) requirement. If a suitable military occupation is available, a position is reserved.

Note - For Regular Force members, the PSO uses the Monthly Occupation Transfer Untrained List (OT-U) generated by DMCPG 5 to provide guidance to the CAF member on military occupations with available vacancies.

For Primary Reserve members, the appropriate Formation must confirm to the CO that a vacant establishment position exists in a unit where the member is/may be prepared to relocate.
8PSOCompletes the DND 2790 Selection Assessment Report and returns the file with a recommendation to DMCA. An info copy is sent to DMCPG 5 for Reg F members.
9DMCAIn consultation with DMCPG 5, considers whether COT is possible. If yes, proceed to Serial 10. If not, proceed to Serial 11.
10DMCACompletes the AR including the normal disclosure process, offers the possibility for the CAF member to submit representations and provides a decision to the CAF member.

For Regular Force members, the AR decision message/letter is sent by DMCA for follow-up action to the Unit, DMCPG 5, and URS, Base/Wing Surgeon, the Case Manager (if applicable) and to the career manager for info. A copy is provided to the CAF member.

DMCPG 5 issues the COT message including details for training, element transfer (DEU), if applicable, rank change and other info as applicable.

For Primary Reserve members, the decision message/letter is sent by DMCA for follow-up action to the CO, the appropriate Formation, Area and Command HQ, the Base/Wing Surgeon for insertion into the CAF member’s medical file, personnel file and a copy is provided to the CAF member.

If the CAF member objects to the COT, the appropriate authority IAW CDS delegated release and release recommendation authorities chart renders a release decision.
11DMCA





No military occupation available or not suitable for a COT;

DMCA completes the AR and consider available options (RWR or Release). A decision is taken by appropriate authority IAW CDS delegated release and release recommendation authorities chart.
 

KuroKuma

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While not super common at a unit level it is something across the CAF that happens on a fairly regular basis.

DMCA 3 is usually pretty fast at cutting the initial message and they finish the AR process.

Good info at the DMCA 3 DWAN AR-MEL Page. Excerpt pertaining to MCOT from their aide-memoire below

3COCompliant with MOS ID Task Statements:
CO provides the CAF member with the synopsis and recommendation which he/she will consider when making a decision. The CAF member is provided the opportunity to make representations. The CO considers all of the information prior to making the decision and provides the CAF member with the decision and reasons

For Regular Force members, the CO sends the RWOR decision letter/memo to the appropriate Career Manager, Branch advisor, applicable Base/Wing Surgeon, and Case Manager (if applicable) for retention on medical files, Unit Records Section (URS) for retention on CAF member’s personnel files and a copy is provided to the CAF member.

For Primary Reserve members, the CO sends the RWOR decision letter/memo to the appropriate Primary Reserve List (if applicable), Formation and Area Headquarters, the employing CO (if applicable), Base/Wing Surgeon (medical file), personnel file, and a copy is provided to the CAF member.
4CO’s designate/ Admin ONot compliant with MOS ID Task Statements:
Discloses all documentation including case synopsis to the CAF member which relate to the fact that the member can no longer be employed in his/her MOSID and COT is recommended.
5CORefers the CAF member to the PSO for a selection assessment, as the current MELs do not meet the occupation specifications and DMCA will consider COT.

At this point the file including the PSO referral is sent to DMCA. The AR process is completed by DMCA.
6PSOConducts a selection assessment to determine whether the CAF member meets the standards and requirements for the targeted military occupation(s), which includes selection processing (e.g. cognitive ability, personality traits and person-job fit), military occupation entry standards, medical fitness and MELs.
7PSO











CO
Liaises with Director Military Careers Policy and Grievances 5 (DMCPG 5) for Regular Force members, or the CO for the Reserve Force members, to determine the availability of a unit establishment position vacancy or a Strategic Intake Plan (SIP) requirement. If a suitable military occupation is available, a position is reserved.

Note - For Regular Force members, the PSO uses the Monthly Occupation Transfer Untrained List (OT-U) generated by DMCPG 5 to provide guidance to the CAF member on military occupations with available vacancies.

For Primary Reserve members, the appropriate Formation must confirm to the CO that a vacant establishment position exists in a unit where the member is/may be prepared to relocate.
8PSOCompletes the DND 2790 Selection Assessment Report and returns the file with a recommendation to DMCA. An info copy is sent to DMCPG 5 for Reg F members.
9DMCAIn consultation with DMCPG 5, considers whether COT is possible. If yes, proceed to Serial 10. If not, proceed to Serial 11.
10DMCACompletes the AR including the normal disclosure process, offers the possibility for the CAF member to submit representations and provides a decision to the CAF member.

For Regular Force members, the AR decision message/letter is sent by DMCA for follow-up action to the Unit, DMCPG 5, and URS, Base/Wing Surgeon, the Case Manager (if applicable) and to the career manager for info. A copy is provided to the CAF member.

DMCPG 5 issues the COT message including details for training, element transfer (DEU), if applicable, rank change and other info as applicable.

For Primary Reserve members, the decision message/letter is sent by DMCA for follow-up action to the CO, the appropriate Formation, Area and Command HQ, the Base/Wing Surgeon for insertion into the CAF member’s medical file, personnel file and a copy is provided to the CAF member.

If the CAF member objects to the COT, the appropriate authority IAW CDS delegated release and release recommendation authorities chart renders a release decision.
11DMCA




No military occupation available or not suitable for a COT;

DMCA completes the AR and consider available options (RWR or Release). A decision is taken by appropriate authority IAW CDS delegated release and release recommendation authorities chart.
Thank you for replying so quickly. I appreciate the information and resources you provided.
 
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KuroKuma

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So apparently the former Chief Clerk at my unit sat on my file up until he was posted out. No one was aware or so they claim. It wasn't until I engaged CCMS that my paperwork was finally completed and sent to DMCA 3. I got my advisory message today and I have my BPSO appointment on Friday morning. The AR/MEL was completed by the unit, as well as the letter of representation, and it's all been sent to DMCA 3. I'm wondering how long after my BPSO appointment might I receive my decision letter and finally get into CADPAT?
 
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