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Compulsory Occupational Transfer [COT] questions

remib

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A few questions I couldn't find answers to in any threads:
1. Are closed trades open to COT cases?  for ex. PH Tech is closed but to a medical COT as well?
2.  The BPSO doesn't offer you a new trade, so who does?
3. How exactly does this work- in another post there was some info, but not very specific, specifics would help
4. I know which trades interest me, if I cannot be accomodated and reject an offer to a trade I am not interested in, what are the possible consequences?
5. What are selection criteria for the people making offers?

Any help would be greatly appreciated folks.  thanks in advance to anyone who can answer some or all of my questions
 

take2

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If COT = compulsory occupational transfer, due to course failure or other reason, then here are some answers based upon my very recent experience.

1.  Closed is closed.  Even some "open" are closed to reassignment.  They might be open to SVOTP only.
2.  The BPSO gives you a list of what is open.  It is updated monthly and generally gets worse as the fiscal year progresses.
3.  How does what work?
4.  If you don't like anything open, you can release.  There was a CANFORGEN last fall that prevents people from dragging their heals forever hoping that the occupation they want opens up again.
5.  Generally speaking, if the trade is open and you meet the qualifications then after an interview with the BPSO, the BPSO recommends that you be reassigned to that trade.
 

BernDawg

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Gonna throw out the caveat first, my experience is 12 yrs old so things have probably changed since then but... I was Med -remustered back in 99/2000 and, as it was explained to me at the time, my file was shopped out to the career managers of the trades I had expressed an interest in. My first choice wasn't closed but I was turned down because they weren't running any QL3 courses for the next 2 years and didn't want to do me a disservice by making me wait. my second choice was open and I was accepted. It was my understanding at the time that even if a trade was closed there was a chance you could get picked up if the career manager saw something they liked in your file.
 

remib

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I was told that if you are remustering due to mel's that no "closed" trades are actually closed to you, unless your mel's prevent you from doing that trade.  Any truth to this?  And what would another career manager like about my file?  I get above average per's but I don't volunteer at the local soup kitchen, what are they looking for?
Any CM's out there with any ideas?  I've been going through this process for three years now, and am pretty eager to move on, just as eager as the PSO is to move me along, I've been in limbo so long I was almost shocked when things started to move along again.  Now that things are moving, I'd like to be as informed as possible.  Thanks again
 

BernDawg

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From what I understand it has a lot to do with the recomendations from your existing career manager and CO.
 

halfro

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Hi everyone,

I'm currently in the middle of a COT-U and am hoping someone on the forums would have some better understanding of the options available to me. I met with a BPSO shortly after an unsuccessful Armoured phase 4 and one of my choices on my COT-U was Areospace control officer. I was selected for that and sent to the CFASC in Trenton for the battery of tests required for aircrew trades. After the tests I was informed that not only did I meet the AEC requirements but that I met the requirements for pilot with two others and would be sent to Toronto to continue on with the medical side of testing. I informed them that while I was really excited about this option, it would probably be denied as I have a COT in process. None the less I was sent to Toronto and completed the medical with no obivous hang ups and am awaiting the results which should be back in 4 to 6 weeks.

So as soon as I returned to base I went to talk to the BPSO about what happened at the testing center. I was told that pilot is closed for COTs, I was told I could not wait for pilot to open up as slowing down a COT on purpose would have me released, I was was told even if the trade opens up in the next month, as my results will not be back until then, that the trade is still closed to me because I selected AEC to go to aircrew testing. I was also told that because it is a COT, once I am switched to AEC I will have to stay in the trade for 3 years and cannot put my name in for VOT to pilot. By the end of my conversation with the BPSO she simply boiled it down to informing me that either I will become an AEC, I will decommission or I will be released.

I'm trying to figure out if there is anything still on my side here. Out of 12 of us who were tested 6 made AEC, 3 of those 6 made pilot and only me and another guy passed the medical with no snags. I have no issues with the AEC trade but I'm just kind of floored that so few passed the pilots testing but they will turn me down based on administration. Is there another airforce board that will sit and review my paperwork after it clears the medical? Will anyone in the airforce side of the house be able to see that I took the pilot's medical and push for that to be an option for me regardless of admin? Is everything the BPSO told me accurate and is there an option available to me  that I may be overlooking to achieve an end goal of going to pilot's training?

Thanks for helping me out!
 

sidemount

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Well according to the the SIP for Pilot, they are taking 19 OTs this year......

One CoA for you is to grieve/Redress it, let Ottawa make that call.

Don't know if it will work but "No's" are free right.
 

halfro

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Thanks! That is definitely something I have in the back of my mind. I'm trying to get in contact with Air Force folk currently before any decision is made just to see if I may be able to have some support from somewhere. Start with the easiest plan and move to hardest as required but fortune favours the bold!
 

Eye In The Sky

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sidemount said:
Well according to the the SIP for Pilot, they are taking 19 OTs this year......

Which has nothing to do with COTs. 

One CoA for you is to grieve/Redress it, let Ottawa make that call.

Based on what? 

Your post shows you don't know a lot about policy and you're best COA is a "shot in the dark".

Halfro - because you didn't pass trg and are a COT, you fall under different rules/regs.  Sucks, but c'est la vie.  You can't just jump around - you were processed and accepted for AEC.  AEC was on the Monthly Reassignment List for Officers, Pilot was not.  The reg's for a straight VOT for Officer dictate a time requirement to OT. 

Before wasting time on a grievance...that I would bet 99% won't even be accepted (not a grievance issue IMO based on policy), if you want, ask your CofC and/or BPSO staff for a copy of reg's regarding Officer COT, Officer VOT and something called the BTAGs (Basic Trg List Admin Guide).

CF reg's and policy apply to everyone, including those who pass ACS for Pilot.  One of those is that you have to pick from the Monthly Reassignment List for the month you're COT is processed, not the month before, or after.  Otherwise, people would sit around dragging COTs out hoping the trade they want opens  up the next month...and the next...

As a trg failure, you don't get first pick at what you want.  :2c:

Never take a blind shot in the dark like a grievance.  Request the policy that supports/doesn't support the decision being made that affects you and go from there.  Especially (IMO) as an Officer.  Get the facts straight before throwing rocks in the pond.
 

PuckChaser

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So say we open up Pilot for COT.

Person A wants pilot, but its closed for entry or isn't competitive enough and gets Signals Officer. Person A "fails" trade training, knowing Pilot entry can be gained via COT. Gets around off-the-street Pilot recruiting standards by being a COT and gets in that way.

I'm not saying you're doing this, but if you really want Pilot you'll do your time as AEC, get some excellent PERs and breeze through the VOT process.
 

halfro

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PuckChaser said:
So say we open up Pilot for COT.

Person A wants pilot, but its closed for entry or isn't competitive enough and gets Signals Officer. Person A "fails" trade training, knowing Pilot entry can be gained via COT. Gets around off-the-street Pilot recruiting standards by being a COT and gets in that way.

I'm not saying you're doing this, but if you really want Pilot you'll do your time as AEC, get some excellent PERs and breeze through the VOT process.

I wouldn't say that I dodged any sort of standard. I mean I could have failed the test and be screwed, at least the civilian wouldn't have to sit in a holding troop. But thanks for the input everyone, it's good to get others take on the matter. Perhaps it would have been better not to know that I met the requirements for pilot, that way I wouldn't care to not get it.
 

secondchance

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I am wondering if there is a  policy for people who passed COT- Untrained .
I have been 2Lt for 3 years and finally got promoted to Lt  . My next EPZ for Capt is in 2 years. Totally 5 years from 2Lt to Capt.
Is it correct ?

Sent from my NX591J using Tapatalk

 

sidemount

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Ill have to look closer at the cfao and get the ref but essentially no. Your previous counts but the time from when you were removed from training in your old trade to either being put in your new trade, or qualified in your new trade (one of those, I don't recall which one) doesn't count. So it will be some counting and contacting careers to have an amended promotion message cut to update your epz.
 

sidemount

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CFAO 11-6 in general,and annex A, paras 15-18 more specifically spell out how to properly figure out what you need.

And what I said in my previous post, the change in epz is based on the date the MOC transfer is complete.
 

Navyynick

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Long story short, I got hurt and was assigned a PCAT and my Med cat changed from G2 O2 to G3 O3. I've already had my BPSO consuelling and such and have a interview date for 3 trades in the middle of this month for a AR/MEL COT. My question is how long does it take from me being in limbo at the moment, just chilling doing odd jobs to actual getting on a course for the new trade, honestly i'm really just curious because I have leave booked for May and im going to Hawaii.

Any sort of timeline after the BPSO Interview would be great to know,

Thanks
 

Eye In The Sky

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It's going to depend on (1) how long it takes for your process to be complete and your OT message is cut and (2) what trade you're going to get; there may be a backlog for initial occ trg, etc.  Different trades have different selection/intake timeslots.

If you have a signed leave pass, make sure the PSO knows so they can advise whoever the BTL Mgr for your new trade so they can try to schedule around it.  Assuming you had a signed leave pass before you bought any tickets, etc...IF they make you cancel leave, they'll have to reimburse you for certain expenses (worst case scenario).

 

Navyynick

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Eye In The Sky said:
It's going to depend on (1) how long it takes for your process to be complete and your OT message is cut and (2) what trade you're going to get; there may be a backlog for initial occ trg, etc.  Different trades have different selection/intake timeslots.

If you have a signed leave pass, make sure the PSO knows so they can advise whoever the BTL Mgr for your new trade so they can try to schedule around it.  Assuming you had a signed leave pass before you bought any tickets, etc...IF they make you cancel leave, they'll have to reimburse you for certain expenses (worst case scenario).

Thanks alot for the prompt answer. Another question if you have time, Im currently in Esquimalt and the three trades I have picked out all have training in Ontario, Do I wait here in Esquimalt doing what i'm currently doing and not move until my 3's date? I have a Q here, a wife and 2 kids.
 

211RadOp

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That will depend on the trade managers.  Most of the time I have seen them wait at their old posting doing OJT in the new trade until TQ3/DP1.
 

Banana

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I have a quick question regarding COT’s. I’m on my trade course and I have injured my ankle (for the third time now in my military career). I haven’t gone to the MIR because I don’t want to get recoursed.

What I’m wondering is if I get pulled off course due to an ankle injury again, am I at risk of being deemed unfit to be in a combat trade? Would they force me to change out of the army element to serve in a trade that isn’t as physically demanding?

Thanks!
 

Eye In The Sky

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Banana said:
I have a quick question regarding COT’s. I’m on my trade course and I have injured my ankle (for the third time now in my military career). I haven’t gone to the MIR because I don’t want to get recoursed.

What I’m wondering is if I get pulled off course due to an ankle injury again, am I at risk of being deemed unfit to be in a combat trade? Would they force me to change out of the army element to serve in a trade that isn’t as physically demanding?

Thanks!

It would depend on the extent of the injury.  If it was (1) permanent in nature and (2) changed the required medical category for your current trade, you could be looking at a COT (Medical).

A medical RTU from a course is far more common than a medical COT. 

Something to consider:
  right now, you are 'injured'.  If you keep beating on that ankle without giving it time to heal, it could become permanently injured...that could lead to the Medical COT you are hoping to avoid.

No one wants to 'tap out', I get it (ex-combat arms...) but, sometimes you need to let the medical folks do their magic.  A recourse is not a bad thing for injury, and pretty much everyone I know sees the difference between a medical recourse/RTU and a "couldn't pas the course" RTU.

Think long term when considering the "should I go/not go to the MIR" question.  :2c:
 
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