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Commissionaires

mariomike

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Chief Stoker said:
Apparently anyone with a heartbeat is hired and they are suppose to be our first line of defence at our bases.

For comparison,

Commissionaires:
http://www.commissionaires.ca/national/en/careers-available-positions/en-80339-security-patrol/
( Pay rates and job calls vary. )

A corporate security job call ( for an entry level position ):
http://wx.toronto.ca/inter/hr/jobs.nsf/b95d1630385b57cd8525668200523188/c0befdf408af29b8852573e20058b683?OpenDocument
( The pay rate is from 23 March, 2009. Although non-union, as city employees I would guess they have received a similar pay raise since then. )

Not to say one service provides better security than the other. But, there looks to be a significant difference in responsibilities, qualifications and pay between the two.

 

garb811

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You're comparing apples and oranges.  Commissionaires =/= municipal/provincial or federal civil service security positions.

A better comparison is with a private security company in the same geographic locations:

Job Number: 6134295

Title: Security guard (NOC: 6651)

Terms of Employment: Permanent, Part Time leading Full Time, Day

Salary: $12.00 to $14.50 Hourly for 40 hours per week

Anticipated Start Date: As soon as possible

Location: South Surrey, British Columbia (1 vacancy)
Skill Requirements:

Education: Not applicable, Not required

Credentials (certificates, licences, memberships, courses, etc.): Security Guard basic (pre-assignment ) training program certificate, Security Guard Licence, Provincial/territorial security officer certificate

Experience: Will train

Languages: Speak English, Read English, Write English

Work Setting: Private security agency, Factory or plant

Type of Assignments: Foot patrol, Patrol post, Roving patrol

Specific Skills: Enforce regulations of establishments, Maintain order, Use telecommunications (i.e. two-way radio, cell phone, pager), Follow radio and emergency telephone procedures, Monitor security television, Ensure safety and emergency procedures are followed, Control vehicular and pedestrian traffic, Respond to alarms, bomb threats and other emergencies, Detect or prevent thefts and vandalism, Write reports

Security and Safety: Bondable, Basic security clearance, Criminal record check, Credit check

Work Conditions and Physical Capabilities: Attention to detail, Combination of sitting, standing, walking, Walking

Work Site Environment: Noisy

Transportation/Travel Information: Own transportation

Essential Skills: Reading text, Document use, Numeracy, Writing, Oral communication, Working with others, Problem solving, Decision making, Critical thinking, Job task planning and organizing, Significant use of memory, Finding information, Computer use, Continuous learning

Employer: Investigation Services Ltd.
How to Apply:

Please apply for this job only in the manner specified by the employer. Failure to do so may result in your application not being properly considered for the position.

Contact Name: Deo Raj
By E-mail: deo.raj@investigation-services.ca

Advertised until: 2011/11/29

This job advertisement has been provided by an external employer. Service Canada is not responsible for the accuracy, authenticity or reliability of the content.
 

zClassified

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Chief Stoker said:
I agree. In the US, a lot of the navy and coast guard bases have uniformed armed security forces that handle gate duties. I personally think Canadian bases should have something more than the commissionaires.

I work for commissionaires on base petawawa. I am a college educated person with a security management diploma and police foundations as well. So with that in mind commissionaires does not hire any bum off the street they hire most CF vets (65% hired are from the CF). it is unfortunate that everyone here either A has had a bad experience with a Comissionaire or B wants some other form of security protection. IMO some of the people on the forum who are in the CF may work for them at some point in their life (you never know). It is nearly impossible for myself to get a fulltime job on the base as a commissionaire and i am a educated person in this field...

Also do you really think the canadian government can afford a higher  security force to man a gate? Why do you think they hire commissionaires...to save money and to hire ex CF memebers.  :nod:
 

brihard

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zClassified said:
I work for commissionaires on base petawawa. I am a college educated person with a security management diploma and police foundations as well. So with that in mind commissionaires does not hire any bum off the street they hire most CF vets (65% hired are from the CF). it is unfortunate that everyone here either A has had a bad experience with a Comissionaire or B wants some other form of security protection. IMO some of the people on the forum who are in the CF may work for them at some point in their life (you never know). It is nearly impossible for myself to get a fulltime job on the base as a commissionaire and i am a educated person in this field...

Also do you really think the canadian government can afford a higher  security force to man a gate? Why do you think they hire commissionaires...to save money and to hire ex CF memebers.  :nod:

You're mistaking a tight job market for the organization being particularly special. If you're in Pet and not in the CF, there's not a massive labour market by any means. Commissionaire's pay is a bit better than pulling retail or something, but not by much.

I was recruited into the Commissionaires through to the point of completing training, and fortunately was offered full time work at my unit before my security guard license showed up in the mail, obviating the need to work with them. I went through training in Ottawa. I'd say a quarter to a third of us were current/ex CF. Many were most definitely just joe schmoe off the street. A couple had no business being there, and a few were 'upgrading' from crappier rent-a-cop jobs.

I would contend that we can't afford *not* to pay for real gate security. An organization that has an explicit policy of not using force doesn't cut it. Sure, there are places where Commissionaires make sense (e.g., a building reception desk inside an actual security perimeter), but not as the actual permanently manned and staff perimeter security. The fact that anyone can just drive on to Pet, Gagetown, or what have you is appalling. Take thirty seconds and 'red team' this one and you'll get what I mean.
 
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aesop081

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I work for commissionaires on base petawawa. I am a college educated person with a security management diploma and police foundations as well.

And when you get tasked to monitor the gate with more than a pencil, clipboard and funny look, i might be impressed. When your job doesn't stop at checking ID at the entrance of restricted areas...........let me know.

You want to see what real base security looks like, go visit a USN base.

Nothing personal, you're a smart and educated guy, i get it.
 

Tank Troll

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This is all true how ever the sad part is a few years ago (10 actually) a Sgt in Wainwright was particularly distraught and took a 9mm service revolver from work and started shooting up the MP shack on base. The MPS just huddled in the building hidden in their offices and such, the Commissionaire crawled over under fire and locked the door so the Sgt couldn't get in.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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jasonf6 said:
I never understood this either.  They expect ALL trades to be able to dig a trench, fire a weapon accurately and all that jazz covered by the Universality of Service yet they don't give out live ammo for BASF.  I understand the safety thing but if you're expected to deploy and carry weapons you should be relied on to use them in a safe manner.  If you can't carry a weapon and not shoot yourself in the foot then you shouldn't be in the military at all.  It may sound harsh but it's the MILITARY, not boy/girl scouts.  It's an armed force.
    <------ THIS!

I have been in Jamaica for the past 4 months and if you know anything about Jamaica you will know they have a serious crime and drug problem with some pretty powerful criminal organizations to boot..... guess who guards all the bases?  The Soldiers! Oh and are they all carrying weapons?  You bet they are!  Do they have Ammo?  Of course!  I don't see the issue with this, especially on bases such as Petawawa, Gagetown, Val Cartier, Edmonton etc... these are operational bases after all and I don't believe any old tom, dick or harry should be able to waltz on without some sort of purpose.  I know everyone is concerned about terrorism; however, that is not even my biggest concern I would be more concerned with general theft or potentially something like this happening....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TIun536HFo

Or we could even think of some more sinister things happening.  Sweden had a big problem in the 90's as they had large quantities of weapons and ammunition that were unguarded in depots in the countryside.  Guess who broke into them?  Organized criminal groups and next thing you know the Hells Angels etc... were carrying out assassinations with anti-tank weapons, military grade sniper-rifles, grenades, assault rifles etc...  with the lack of security in some of our reserve units and bases its not hard to imagine with some professional help and a little bit of willpower a scenario like this playing out.

It would be fairly easy to do.  Just CFTPO people all the time have a 6 month tasking to act as security detail for the base, put them through a training course initially and voila your already infinitely better off then the present situation. 

 

Retired AF Guy

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Stymiest said:
Or we could even think of some more sinister things happening.  Sweden had a big problem in the 90's as they had large quantities of weapons and ammunition that were unguarded in depots in the countryside.  Guess who broke into them?  Organized criminal groups and next thing you know the Hells Angels etc... were carrying out assassinations with anti-tank weapons, military grade sniper-rifles, grenades, assault rifles etc...  with the lack of security in some of our reserve units and bases its not hard to imagine with some professional help and a little bit of willpower a scenario like this playing out.

It has happened in Canada with military weapons ending up in criminal hands. In '74, a colleague was showing pictures of his brother (a Toronto police officer) and one was of confiscated weapons which included a couple of SMG's and a FN C2. The worst case was about 10-12 years ago when someone broke into some armory in Montreal; when the Commissionaire responded to the alarm he was murdered. If I remember correctly a couple dozen rifles were stolen and no has ever been charged with the crime.
 

zClassified

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CDN Aviator said:
And when you get tasked to monitor the gate with more than a pencil, clipboard and funny look, i might be impressed. When your job doesn't stop at checking ID at the entrance of restricted areas...........let me know.

You want to see what real base security looks like, go visit a USN base.

Nothing personal, you're a smart and educated guy, i get it.

I understand that your saying that a pencil and clipboard doesnt offer much protection, however you and I both know proper "armed proctection" is not in DND's budget. And to be honest who would be dumb enough to attack one of the largest canadian army bases? lol
 

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zClassified said:
I understand that your saying that a pencil and clipboard doesnt offer much protection, however you and I both know proper "armed proctection" is not in DND's budget. And to be honest who would be dumb enough to attack one of the largest canadian army bases? lol

In between MP shift changes?
 
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aesop081

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And to be honest who would be dumb enough to attack one of the largest canadian army bases? lol

That is exactly why it makes it a target, because of thinking like that. Who is stupid enough to attack a large base full of soldiers ? Someone who wants to kill alot of soldiers. Its not like thousands of soldiers walk around base armed with guns and ammunition at all times.

It's not just the big bases. Some of the bases with the most expensive or sensitive equipment are the smaller ones.
 

AmmoTech90

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zClassified said:
I understand that your saying that a pencil and clipboard doesnt offer much protection, however you and I both know proper "armed proctection" is not in DND's budget. And to be honest who would be dumb enough to attack one of the largest canadian army bases? lol

Really?  If as you say there is no "proper armed protection", then anyone who has decided the benefits of stealing X, Y, or Z outweighs the cost of getting caught would not be dumb.  If they have guns and the protection does not, then who wins?  If they have more guns than the protection, then who wins?

If you think that anyone who is interested in acquiring military kit via illegal means is dumb then you might be looking in the mirror.
 

brihard

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zClassified said:
I understand that your saying that a pencil and clipboard doesnt offer much protection, however you and I both know proper "armed proctection" is not in DND's budget. And to be honest who would be dumb enough to attack one of the largest canadian army bases? lol

Are you kidding?

Have you ever taken the two minutes necessary to 'red team' this? Anyone who didn't care about their own life - and we have ample enemies of that description - could easily pull a Ft. Hood or equivalent on any Canadian base. And that's just an individual- never mind if there were 5 or 6 of them.
 
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aesop081

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zClassified said:
I understand that your saying that a pencil and clipboard doesnt offer much protection, however you and I both know proper "armed proctection" is not in DND's budget. And to be honest who would be dumb enough to attack one of the largest canadian army bases? lol

You might want to get your money back from wherever you got that security management training........... ::)
 

Stoker

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zClassified said:
I understand that your saying that a pencil and clipboard doesnt offer much protection, however you and I both know proper "armed proctection" is not in DND's budget. And to be honest who would be dumb enough to attack one of the largest canadian army bases? lol

So what are commissionaires making per hour anyways, isn't it based on the contract they have? The problem is that they have a monopoly on security jobs for the military and they'll hire anyone with a heartbeat military or non military.
 

brihard

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Chief Stoker said:
So what are commissionaires making per hour anyways, isn't it based on the contract they have? The problem is that they have a monopoly on security jobs for the military and they'll hire anyone with a heartbeat military or non military.

Commissionairess at a decent post pull in $13-$14 an hour. Marginally higher than your average rent-a-cop, but they're competing for the same labour supply (besides the retired vets- about a third of the team). Police foundations grads who can't get hired, and those who've moved up form rock bottom jobs with Iron Horse Security or what have you.
 

Stoker

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In Halifax we have a commissionaire hired to carry out the duties of the quartermaster on a extended readiness ship, answer phones, make pipes etc. So they are branching out it seems.
 

Fishbone Jones

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In Windsor, one of the jobs they do is Parking Enforcement for the city.
 

dogger1936

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Brihard said:
Are you kidding?

Have you ever taken the two minutes necessary to 'red team' this? Anyone who didn't care about their own life - and we have ample enemies of that description - could easily pull a Ft. Hood or equivalent on any Canadian base. And that's just an individual- never mind if there were 5 or 6 of them.

:nod:

Let's not forget about this little incident a short while ago....seems the media went quiet on it.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2011/01/21/16986351.html
 

brihard

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dogger1936 said:
:nod:

Let's not forget about this little incident a short while ago....seems the media went quiet on it.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2011/01/21/16986351.html

Nah, I remember that... Not what I had in mind though. I think it would not be prudent for me to elaborate further.
 
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