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CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora

Eye In The Sky

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Hey, and poop too!

I was trying to NOT remember that…

Gross GIF
 

Eye In The Sky

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Which was woefully inadequate and contributed to the issues you face now. Canada has constantly replaced AirFrames since the 50’s at a less than 1:1 rate, and if allowed to continue the entire RCAF will be sitting at a desk reminiscing about what it was like when their grandparents flew…

Frankly if I was king, I’d toss on some E-8’s to the P-8 order, as that fits the bill for a bunch of other missing CAF NORAD requirements too.

We replaced 31 Argus (33 were build, 2 were lost in crashes) with 18 Auroras. The idea being they were “more modern/capable”. My dad can tell stories of being able to do hot handovers with the Argus for days on end on the East Coast without calling West coast planes or crews in to support. This was with an aircraft that could take off out of the east coast of Canada, fly to off the coast of Ireland, patrol 8 hours and then RTB.

The Aurora was faster so the thought was…it could get ONSTA quicker etc.

Of the 18 Aurora, 10 were initially planned for ASLEP and AIMP. That was later changed to 14 that would eventually end up as Block 4 aircraft. It’s 2022 and the fleet isn’t there yet…but the aircraft are 40+years old.

My take on the current situation is “more demand than there is supply”. We need more crews at the line sqns, more instructors at 404 and more people doing testing and development.

The sub threat from current adversaries is not going away, getting smaller or assessed as less capable. We need to decide if we care about that or are happy to let our Allies do the heavy lifting…but I wouldn’t be surprised if our NORAD partner reminds us that maritime approaches are part of our NORAD mission…

Our MPAs are used in many domestic and international ops, and does support to other Depts in the govt.
 

Spencer100

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We replaced 31 Argus (33 were build, 2 were lost in crashes) with 18 Auroras. The idea being they were “more modern/capable”. My dad can tell stories of being able to do hot handovers with the Argus for days on end on the East Coast without calling West coast planes or crews in to support. This was with an aircraft that could take off out of the east coast of Canada, fly to off the coast of Ireland, patrol 8 hours and then RTB.

The Aurora was faster so the thought was…it could get ONSTA quicker etc.

Of the 18 Aurora, 10 were initially planned for ASLEP and AIMP. That was later changed to 14 that would eventually end up as Block 4 aircraft. It’s 2022 and the fleet isn’t there yet…but the aircraft are 40+years old.

My take on the current situation is “more demand than there is supply”. We need more crews at the line sqns, more instructors at 404 and more people doing testing and development.

The sub threat from current adversaries is not going away, getting smaller or assessed as less capable. We need to decide if we care about that or are happy to let our Allies do the heavy lifting…but I wouldn’t be surprised if our NORAD partner reminds us that maritime approaches are part of our NORAD mission…

Our MPAs are used in many domestic and international ops, and does support to other Depts in the govt.
So you are saying the Twin Otter Patrol idea is just ticket then? ;)
 

Eye In The Sky

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2 Reserve VP Sqns with P-8s and 300+ personnel/Sqn? Wonder if we can get them tasked to support the LRP fleet…

 

dimsum

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2 Reserve VP Sqns with P-8s and 300+ personnel/Sqn? Wonder if we can get them tasked to support the LRP fleet…

Yeah, but how many of them fly for Delta/United/AA as their "day job"?

Although the idea of a Class A TACCO seems pretty nice right now...
 

Eye In The Sky

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Gaining/maintaining quals aside, I was more trying to point out they are equipping their 2 reserve Sqns with new planes.

And our 2 op sqns aren’t flush with BIV yet…
 

CBH99

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They’re block 6 (No ADS-B or RNAV approaches) and would need to be upgraded to block 8 so it’s not as inexpensive as one would think.
Upon reflection I guess that’s right up our alley.
Why would they need to be upgraded to Block 8?
Gaining/maintaining quals aside, I was more trying to point out they are equipping their 2 reserve Sqns with new planes.

And our 2 op sqns aren’t flush with BIV yet…
BIV??
 

kev994

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Why would they need to be upgraded to Block 8?

BIV??
In the very near future aircraft will not be able to leave the country unless they’re equipped with ADS-B, and the number of instrument approaches that are not RNAV is quickly dwindling, 6.1 can’t do either.
 

YZT580

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