CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora

[Eye In The Sky]

You may very well be correct. It depends on how imaginative the government and if we can afford both.

The LRP fleet does not do any kind of Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) mission. The P-8A does not do AEW&C; that is done by aircraft such as the Hawkeyes, Sentry’s and Wedgetails.

Canada does not have AEW&C aircraft. There is no project to procure AEW&C aircraft. The RCAF participates (personnel) in the NATO AEW&C fleets with a very small footprint.

CMMA has nothing to do with AEW&C.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

100 pers/sortie. Seems like an improvement to me over our current capability.

https://www.navair.navy.mil/news/P-8A-gets-new-tool-extended-search-and-rescue-capability/Tue-10082019-1117

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Um, what? The P8 is highly capable of conducting ASuW as well. She has a highly capable surface search radar, ESM suite (#what'satrout?), and can carry numerous Harpoons. In fact, you could argue she's a better ASuW platform than ASW platform (compared to the P3) .

The USN has declared IOC on HAAWC now, and with Mk 54s.

U.S. Navy Declares IOC for Boeing’s HAAWC - Naval News

Boeing's High Altitude Anti-Submarine Warfare Weapon Capability, or HAAWC, has achieved initial operational capability status from the U.S. Navy.

www.navalnews.com

 

[MTShaw]

I don’t think you understand a DMS (data management system), IMS (integrated mission system) on an aircraft or a TDES (Tactical data exchange system aka Link) that well. This is what happens on modern aircraft now.



Yet the P-8 has been successfully conducting missions for years. I’m confused on what the concern is here. “What is working now might not work even though it already is”.



Aurora range; 7400km. Aurora can’t do air to air refueling. P-8 can and is.

CP-140 Aurora fact sheet - Royal Canadian Air Force - Canada.ca

Description of the CP-140 Aurora fact sheet.

www.canada.ca

We should get the P8 if it suits us. My point is if we need more (5th generation battlespace management) we will need more than what Boeing offers. Or desn’t necessary fit in a current an/.

I was just speculating on potential P8s weaknesses. That’s alL.

Or if we tried to fit to much new stuff into a 737 we might have a C295

 

[MTShaw]

Um, what? The P8 is highly capable of conducting ASuW as well. She has a highly capable surface search radar, ESM suite (#what'satrout?), and can carry numerous Harpoons. In fact, you could argue she's a better ASuW platform than ASW platform (compared to the P3) .

Stroke aphasia problems: I left out ASuW accidentally. I was disappointed when they dropped Harpoon from the CP140. I guess they didn’t think that our warplanes should be offensive.

 

[MTShaw]

The LRP fleet does not do any kind of Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) mission. The P-8A does not do AEW&C; that is done by aircraft such as the Hawkeyes, Sentry’s and Wedgetails.

Canada does not have AEW&C aircraft. There is no project to procure AEW&C aircraft. The RCAF participates (personnel) in the NATO AEW&C fleets with a very small footprint.

CMMA has nothing to do with AEW&C.

Your correct. I didn’t say that. I was replying to the guy up thread.

I get that everyone wants Canada to get the P8. I was just pointing out limitations in putting all of the Capabilities in a 737ng or a A320neo.

 

[Dana381]

Aurora range; 7400km. Aurora can’t do air to air refueling. P-8 can and is.

CP-140 Aurora fact sheet - Royal Canadian Air Force - Canada.ca

Description of the CP-140 Aurora fact sheet.

www.canada.ca

Is Wikipedia correct with a 2222km range for the P8? If so that is exactly 1/3 the range of the Aurora.
How do we use the Aurora now? Will the much lesser range over tax our small refueler fleet?

 

[dapaterson]

Per Wikipedia. the P8 is 2,222km with 4 hours on station; the P3 is 2,491km with 3 hours on station.

 

[Dana381]

Per Wikipedia. the P8 is 2,222km with 4 hours on station; the P3 is 2,491km with 3 hours on station.

Ok, that makes more sense. I thought the range for th P8 seemed really low. Thanks for clearing that up

 

[dapaterson]

There are multiple range figures for the a/c, depending on what the employment is.

 

[kev994]

As I mentioned earlier I think the only semi-realistic alternative would be if Airbus offered an A330-based MPA as it would then share an airframe with the A330 MRTT's we're already buying. But that's a gigantic IF as they haven't even proposed such a platform and we would be the launch customer for that aircraft (and potentially the ONLY operator as most major potential customers have already jumped on the P-8 bandwagon) with all the serious potential issues that go along with that.

A330 is enormous, this is not realistic at all, we don’t have anywhere to put a bunch more A330s. Here’s a picture

 

[Eye In The Sky]

We should get the P8 if it suits us. My point is if we need more (5th generation battlespace management) we will need more than what Boeing offers. Or desn’t necessary fit in a current an/.

I was just speculating on potential P8s weaknesses. That’s alL.

Or if we tried to fit to much new stuff into a 737 we might have a C295

Everything we have in an Aurora will fit in/on a P-8, including a MAD system.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Stroke aphasia problems: I left out ASuW accidentally. I was disappointed when they dropped Harpoon from the CP140. I guess they didn’t think that our warplanes should be offensive.

$$$$ is a major factor.

 

[dapaterson]

Everything we have in an Aurora will fit in/on a P-8, including a MAD system.

Aeropress?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

A330 is enormous, this is not realistic at all, we don’t have anywhere to put a bunch more A330s. Here’s a picture

I could bring home like… 9000 duvets from Scotland and sell them at a profit!

 

[MTShaw]

A330 is enormous, this is not realistic at all, we don’t have anywhere to put a bunch more A330s. Here’s a picture

Or to give even another perspective:



Won’t Equipment vs Infra use separate accounts to house these monsters.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Aeropress?

Everything on the Aurora PLUS Aeropress which has to be better than the awful FF “coffee” I suffer with.

 

[dapaterson]

Everything on the Aurora PLUS Aeropress which has to be better than the awful FF “coffee” I suffer with.

Hopefully FaCT will improve the ACSO training in that regard.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I’ll be CRA before FAcT is rolling…or the Aurora replacement is on a RCAF Wing. 😂

 

[dimsum]

Hopefully FaCT will improve the ACSO training in that regard.

Good luck. More of an Acoustics specialty. They have time to practice.