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Clean House at the Pentagon

tomahawk6

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Gen Milley declines to support the Presidents withdrawal timeline from Afghanistan. The civilians call the shots and if Milly doesnt agree then he and any like him need to go.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/top-general-declines-to-endorse-trump-s-afghan-withdrawal-timeline/ar-BB19X066?ocid=msedgntp
 

FJAG

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tomahawk6 said:
Gen Milley declines to support the Presidents withdrawal timeline from Afghanistan. The civilians call the shots and if Milly doesnt agree then he and any like him need to go.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/top-general-declines-to-endorse-trump-s-afghan-withdrawal-timeline/ar-BB19X066?ocid=msedgntp

General Miley said:

“I think that Robert O’Brien or anyone else can speculate as they see fit,” General Milley said. “I’m going to engage in the rigorous analysis of the situation based on the conditions and the plans that I am aware of and my conversations with the president.”

Sounds to me like Miley is doing exactly the right thing considering the conflicting tweets flying around.

:cheers:
 

Journeyman

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Any senior military leader expected to act upon a Las Vegas comment by an advisor, subsequently contradicted by an electioneering Trump tweet, probably needs to dedicate some time explaining how command and control works.  :not-again:
 

quadrapiper

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tomahawk6 said:
Gen Milley declines to support the Presidents withdrawal timeline from Afghanistan. The civilians call the shots and if Milly doesnt agree then he and any like him need to go.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/top-general-declines-to-endorse-trump-s-afghan-withdrawal-timeline/ar-BB19X066?ocid=msedgntp
Sounds like an entirely reasonable response from the General. Is O’Brien even in the chain?
 

tomahawk6

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Each military service has a civilian chief as is the SECDEF. It is even in the oath each officer and soldier swears to. I find this very disturbing but not a surprise given the large number of Obama era general officers. Every year a slate of Colonels is selected to be BG's by the service secretary and passed on to SECDEF for Senate approval.
 

PPCLI Guy

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tomahawk6 said:
. I find this very disturbing but not a surprise given the large number of Obama era general officers.

Your profile says that you served "1972 to 2006.Happily retired"

Does that mean you are Jimmy Carter era officer, or a Clinton era officer?
 

Remius

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Miley joined in 1980.  I stand to be corrected but he became a general under Bush Jr.

He was named to his current position by Trump.

So how or why is he an Obama general?

What defines a general as a certain President’s general?

 

dapaterson

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But I think the question all of us have on reading the title of this thread: What, precisely, is the Pentagroin

Penta- means five, and -groin means the junctional area (also known as the inguinal region) between the abdomen and the thigh on either side of the pubic bone.
 

tomahawk6

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PPCLI Guy said:
Your profile says that you served "1972 to 2006.Happily retired"

Does that mean you are Jimmy Carter era officer, or a Clinton era officer?

I classify myself as a Bush era officer and I was a post Vietnam officer. I participated in Grenada,Panama and the first Gulf War. i retired in 2006 rather than accept an assignment that was offered  me.
 

blacktriangle

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Is there really a big issue with associating your military service with a certain era of political or military leadership? I consider myself a Harper/Hillier type. Would not have joined under Trudeau/Vance.
 

Remius

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I joined the CAF.  End state.

I suppose I would state I am a QE2 and her heirs and successors type?  I never swore an oath to any Prime Minister or political party.
 

blacktriangle

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Remius said:
I joined the CAF.  End state.

I suppose I would state I am a QE2 and her heirs and successors type?  I never swore an oath to any Prime Minister or political party.

Absolutely, and the country is lucky to have many fine people like yourself. For others though, certain views (even while privately held) may strongly influence decisions to join or leave. But those are obviously personal decisions, and I agree it's in the best interest of the institution for such individuals to choose not to serve, or to know when to call it quits.
 

dimsum

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reveng said:
Absolutely, and the country is lucky to have many fine people like yourself. For others though, certain views (even while privately held) may strongly influence decisions to join or leave. But those are obviously personal decisions, and I agree it's in the best interest of the institution for such individuals to choose not to serve, or to know when to call it quits.

I could be totally off the mark, but I've never heard of people leaving the CAF because of a new PM or CDS.  The one event that I can recall offhand that made people leave was Unification. 
 

CBH99

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To me, personally, it didn't matter who the PM was during my time in.

Most politicians are the same, and the organization as a whole tends to be the same.  Sluggish, slow, and strolling along trying to be 'capable of a little bit of everything' - as the government, regardless of party, wants 'general purpose, combat capable' forces. 

So we plan to be able to do a little bit of everything, but without any real direction - the department can only do so much.


Our international deployments will be dictated by international events, and pressure behind the scenes to contribute.  No Canadian PM will volunteer us for a deployment because it's the right thing to do.  We'll go where the international community wants us and needs us, based on international events.

We 'lucked out' with a pretty impressive shopping spree with Harper because Afghanistan demanded it.  Afghanistan gave the organization a clear direction on what we needed to do, provide, contribute, etc etc.  And the government of the day had the luxury of using UOR's for almost all of our capital equipment purchases during that time.




At the end of the day, in my own opinion, one's own feeling towards certain politicians shouldn't dictate whether they serve.  Because the talking head with the label of PM will come and go, and be replaced every few years.  How motivated our senior leadership is in pushing ahead with equipment purchases will be dictated on where our organization is directed to operate. 

:2c:
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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Unless I google it right now I have no idea who was PM when I joined......and it wasn't Sir John A, that much I know.
 

FJAG

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Remius said:
I joined the CAF.  End state.

I suppose I would state I am a QE2 and her heirs and successors type?  I never swore an oath to any Prime Minister or political party.

Neither do the Yanks. Their oath is to the Constitution but with a proviso to "obey the orders of the President ... and the orders of the officers appointed over me ..."

Bruce Monkhouse said:
Unless I google it right now I have no idea who was PM when I joined......and it wasn't Sir John A, that much I know.

Pearson when I joined the reserves, Trudeau the First when I went Reg F. Guess that makes me a "Liberal" soldier.  ;D

:cheers:
 

PPCLI Guy

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Not quite.

For the Army:

Oath of Commissioned Officers
I ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God. (Title 5 U.S. Code 3331, an individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit in the civil service or uniformed services)

So no mention of the President

Oath of Enlistment
Oath of Enlistment
I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

Specific reference to the President
 

blacktriangle

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Dimsum said:
I could be totally off the mark, but I've never heard of people leaving the CAF because of a new PM or CDS.  The one event that I can recall offhand that made people leave was Unification.

I'm not saying Trudeau has made many leave, but he has perhaps offered less incentives to stay for people with other options, or who don't serve solely for a paycheque. I was overseas when Trudeau was elected. His attitude towards combat operations, airstrikes etc just struck me as tone deaf considering the nature and scope of the atrocities Daesh was responsible for. Things sort of just trended downward from there, at least in my opinion. Why would I want to work in the employ of a government that's more interested in rehabilitating terrorists than prosecuting or destroying them? I understand that some can just switch this stuff off, and play the game, but not everyone can. Sure the CAF was a stable paycheque, but that's not what drove me to sign up. I'd rather live alone in the woods, or under a highway overpass, if that's what it means to keep some shred of my morality and dignity intact.

:2c:
 

FJAG

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PPCLI Guy said:
Not quite.

For the Army:

So no mention of the President

Specific reference to the President

I stand corrected as I just looked at the oath on enlistment.

The lawyer in me makes me wonder why there is a difference. I presume that the enlistment oath still holds after commissioning.

:cheers:
 

tomahawk6

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FJAG said:
I stand corrected as I just looked at the oath on enlistment.

The lawyer in me makes me wonder why there is a difference. I presume that the enlistment oath still holds after commissioning.

:cheers:

You would be correct. My dad swore me into the Army in March 1972 when I enlisted. I was commissioned in 1975 after OCS.
 
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