Civilians complaining about Police/Emergency Services' Pay

[Jarnhamar]

Yea,...that's pretty easy to say when you have a job that your employer will still pay you until you get better......not so much when you don't.

But how does that justify saving your sick days until retirement then getting some kind of cash/buy out for them?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

You did read dapaterson's post and you are capable of separating issues, right??

 

[Journeyman]

Really?
See here
[It's a long read, sorry]

Yes I read the english portion of the message cited, in following that
:trainwreck:

While it was announced/implemented abysmally, it reaffirms that we are all taking hits to try and re-establish fiscal responsibility. Banking sick days, as a source of extra income, is irresponsible by the government and dishonest by both parties.

 

[Jarnhamar]

You did read dapaterson's post and you are capable of separating issues, right??

Judging by the tone of your post I suppose I'm not, I'll re-read it.

Edit: Yup just read it again. I don't think sick days should be banked, that doesn't seem right to me. On the other hand if someone requires significant sick time or recovery time then they should get it.  I guess it's semantics.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

While it was announced/implemented abysmally, it reaffirms that we are all taking hits to try and re-establish fiscal responsibility.

Give me a break........yea, that's 29 pages [and counting] of " glad we're doing our part" I read there.

Banking sick days, as a source of extra income, is irresponsible by the government and dishonest by both parties.

Agreed.  But, as was noted, that is a separate issue from just banking sick days.

 

[Journeyman]

Give me a break........yea, that's 29 pages [and counting] of " glad we're doing our part" I read there.

No, that was 29+ pages of  " :crybaby:  I'm going to have to kill my kittens and puppies because I can't afford to feed them~!"

Agreed.  But, as was noted, that is a separate issue from just banking sick days.

Which is why I said:

Sick days could still be banked, for use as required for legitimate ailment/injury...

Obviously, we're not going to agree here.  Enjoy 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Actually we DO agree,.............except for your line " Sorry unions, welcome to the 21st Century", as it would seem unless the military formed a Union while I was sleeping last night then we should be welcoming every worker to this brave new world.


I did get my back up about the 'blanket' bashing of accumulating sick days from those who, from day one of employment, would have been paid until the injuries/illness healed,.....glass houses et al.

 

[rifleman17]

You're absolutely correct. Poor, selective or sensationalistic media coverage of the emergency and correctional services completely skews any public perception of what they actually do. The various forms of media are only concerned with cases that can generate outrage, and gain viewership/readers. I've noticed that the media thrives on cases where there's a certain degree of ambiguity. That is, cases where it'd be rather easy for the media to omit or embellish certain details about a case in order to get as much public response as possible. The RCMP airport tasering case is a prime example of the media skewing and omitting facts due to the fact that the case can appear ambiguous to anyone who wasn't actually there as the event happened, making it a prime target for media "spin".

I'm not saying that it's some sort of tinfoil-hat conspiracy theory that the media constantly paints emergency and corrective services in a negative light, but their besmirching of these services' is consistent and frequent and completely unwarranted. It's completely sickening that the media would even consider making negative-spin stories about emergency and corrective services, given how essential they are. You'd think that services that save lives and keep order in society would be given a positive spin by the media, not constantly attacked. The end result of this is that the public adopts gross misconceptions about these services and perceives them as being less legitimate or effective. In my opinion, this then generates a mindset amongst the general public that emergency and corrective services are overcompensated. Overall, it's yet another case of the media tarnishing any service that is visible and who deals with controversial issues.

Just my  :2c: .

The only thing the media cares about is selling news papers and gaining higher viewership on television.  It's all about making money.  If they have to paint the cops as the bad guys in order to achieve that, they don't care.

'Journalistic integrity' seems to be a concept that's quoted only at their own convenience.

 

[MeatheadMick]

Police get paid relatively well to do things that most people would not want to do...

Kim Kardashian gets paid much more... for doing what exactly?

The world ain't fair

 

[George Wallace]

Police get paid relatively well to do things that most people would not want to do...

Kim Kardashian gets paid much more... for doing what exactly?

The world ain't fair

Had you (your Mom) made a sex tape of you that went viral, you may not be in that condition.

 

[MeatheadMick]

?? Not sure if I'm tracking GW lol

 

[George Wallace]

?? Not sure if I'm tracking GW lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Kardashian

 

[GAP]

Ohhhh.....shyte....my eyes are burning...............

That is more, much more than I ever wanted to know about Kim Kardashian...........

 

[MeatheadMick]

I know I wouldn't be as rich as her if there was a sex tape of me floating around.. absolutely not even close.

But yeah... Cops deserve good salaries lol

 

[mariomike]

Today's National Post reports that Emergency Services are under strength.

"The report from EMS chief Paul Raftis acknowledges that despite a nearly 30% rise in emergency patient transport volumes over the past decade, the paramedic workforce has remained static, leading to a progressive erosion in response times.":
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/19/emergency-response-times-are-improving-in-toronto-but-theyre-still-well-below-standards/

Councillor Maria Augimeri is quoted as saying, “We are short of people on the street, and that’s where it counts.”

On Tuesday it was reported, "City on track to post $115M surplus for 2012":
http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/225443--city-on-track-to-post-115m-surplus-for-2012

Hopefully, some of that surplus can be used towards putting "people on the street".

 

[mariomike]

29 October 2012

"Arbitrator raps City of Toronto for not hiring firefighters:
http://www.canadianlawyermag.com/legalfeeds/arbitrator-raps-city-of-toronto-for-not-hiring-firefighters.html

Despite “extreme fiscal pressures,” an arbitrator has found the City of Toronto breached its collective agreement with its firefighters when it elected not to initiate a recruit class for the department in 2011.

The issue at hand, the decision not to initiate a recruit class in May 2011, came at a time when the city was under severe financial pressures given recently elected Mayor Rob Ford’s campaign against the infamous gravy train. The city, last week’s decision notes, argued it was under “the most extreme fiscal pressures it had ever faced.”

Toronto (City) v Toronto Professional Firefighters’ Association Local 3888.

Article 49.01:  A recruit class would be initiated when vacancies in the present work force created by death, retirement, resignation or discharge reaches (sic) forty (40).

End quote.

TFS posted operational firefighting jobs in August. Candidates are writing aptitude tests starting Friday.

 

[ArmyRick]

Stepping back from the small potatoes and looking at the larger picture. I see this as a matter of "How much money do we spend on government services be it municipal/provincial or federal".

I would reccomend we start at the top at all LEVELS before we ask anybody to reduce pay or step down. Start with those governing, members of parliament, councilors, mayors, prime minister, premiers, etc, etc. They take the first hit.

Next, we need to remove a large chunk of beauracracy at ALL levels (and yeah, we in the CF/DND are guilty of it too). I think too many people are in jobs that could simply be eliminated, reduced or amalgamated with other jobs.

Then we start rating all government services from most essential to least. Then you have a viable hit list to go after. Obviously, least important government services take bigger hits.

After cuts/slashes/reductions/efficencies are made, then it becomes department heads responsibility to monitor their departments and ensure people are being reasonable and honest about what they are taking home beyond base pay level.

A couple of problems with this.

Everbody always justifies their own existence no matter how redundant they may be. For this too work, it will take some hard decisions to be made.

Next, Greed. One of the worst things to infect the human brain. When people get greedy and take more and more of what they don't need (especially money), things get ugly. Combine justification with greed and you get a nasty combination.

Canadian Tax payers have a valid complaint. I would not say its the police making too much, but as I said, the problem must be viewed holistically. 

 

[mariomike]

Canadian Tax payers have a valid complaint. I would not say its the police making too much, but as I said, the problem must be viewed holistically. 

The Emergency Services Steering Committee (ESSC) position paper, "Escalating Emergency Services Labour Costs and the Ontario Taxpayers’ Ability to Pay”, recommended that the government “consider not only comparisons to other emergency services workers within the community and other areas, but also comparisons to other unionized and non-unionized employees in the same community”.

 

[The_Falcon]

Stepping back from the small potatoes and looking at the larger picture. I see this as a matter of "How much money do we spend on government services be it municipal/provincial or federal".

I would reccomend we start at the top at all LEVELS before we ask anybody to reduce pay or step down. Start with those governing, members of parliament, councilors, mayors, prime minister, premiers, etc, etc. They take the first hit.

Next, we need to remove a large chunk of beauracracy at ALL levels (and yeah, we in the CF/DND are guilty of it too). I think too many people are in jobs that could simply be eliminated, reduced or amalgamated with other jobs.

Then we start rating all government services from most essential to least. Then you have a viable hit list to go after. Obviously, least important government services take bigger hits.

After cuts/slashes/reductions/efficencies are made, then it becomes department heads responsibility to monitor their departments and ensure people are being reasonable and honest about what they are taking home beyond base pay level.

A couple of problems with this.

Everbody always justifies their own existence no matter how redundant they may be. For this too work, it will take some hard decisions to be made.

Next, Greed. One of the worst things to infect the human brain. When people get greedy and take more and more of what they don't need (especially money), things get ugly. Combine justification with greed and you get a nasty combination.

Canadian Tax payers have a valid complaint. I would not say its the police making too much, but as I said, the problem must be viewed holistically.

Why that sounds pretty rational, but you highlighted some of the reason why that would be difficult to implement.  But you forgot about the whiny professional grant getters, liberal arts etc etc. who will scream blue bloody murder that, their $20 Million or what arts funding grant (as an example) is way more vital to the life blood of the city/province/country, than the $100 Million in infrastructure repair that are needed (look at the budget hysterics in Toronto for the last 2 years as an example).  They are more than happy to just put paint and bondo over the rust, and think thats all that is required.

 

[mariomike]

Before prorogation, there was a bill in the Ontario Legislature for an "Ability to Pay Act".

If a city proved it did not have the ability to pay an arbitrated increase, they would not have to.

"Municipalities rally behind bill to fix Ontario’s ‘broken’ arbitration system":
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/27/municipalities-rally-behind-bill-to-fix-ontarios-broken-arbitration-system/

"That would make Toronto Mayor Rob Ford’s anti-gravy platform a relevant point of consideration."

Ability to pay would have been considered in arbitrations such as the recent one ( mentioned above ) involving TFS. "The issue at hand, the decision not to initiate a recruit class in May 2011, came at a time when the city was under severe financial pressures given recently elected Mayor Rob Ford’s campaign against the infamous gravy train. The city, last week’s decision notes, argued it was under “the most extreme fiscal pressures it had ever faced.”