- Reaction score
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BC Ambulance Service employees are apparently severely undercut, especially the ones that are posted to the Surrey area with all the crazy and dangerous stuff that goes on there.
Civilians complaining about Police/Emergency Services' Pay
- Thread starter BadEnoughDudeRescueRonny
- Start date
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In yesterday's Sun, Joe Warmington had this to say on the subject, "No one cares as much about the amount of tax they pay or how much police, fire and ambulance personnel earn on days like these.":
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/19/hwy-403-miracle-helped-by-a-lot-of-expert-work
Nice to read some of the comments too.
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/19/hwy-403-miracle-helped-by-a-lot-of-expert-work
Nice to read some of the comments too.
CountDC
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
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Interesting as I was just reading an article on this yesterday. Of course some people went on about the overtime some have been collecting. Myself I have no problems with it even if there is a few that are playing the overtime shuffle. I like to believe most are being fair and honest with the overtime. Growing up my neighbour was with the Halifax Police and we hardly saw him around as he worked so much. In the 90's I got to know a couple officers through a friend and I have no doubt that most officers are worth every penny.
One question that did come up and I am not sure about is the retention bonus. The way it was explained was that Toronto was having a problem in that after a certain point their officers were leaving to take jobs in the surrounding area that were viewed as better. In order to stop this they started to offer a retention bonus. Sounded good to me. The issue though is because Toronto got it other police services such as Ottawa that did not have this problem started to get a retention bonus. Don't blame the officers for taking it but do wonder why it was even put on the table when there wasn't a need for it.
One question that did come up and I am not sure about is the retention bonus. The way it was explained was that Toronto was having a problem in that after a certain point their officers were leaving to take jobs in the surrounding area that were viewed as better. In order to stop this they started to offer a retention bonus. Sounded good to me. The issue though is because Toronto got it other police services such as Ottawa that did not have this problem started to get a retention bonus. Don't blame the officers for taking it but do wonder why it was even put on the table when there wasn't a need for it.
- Reaction score
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Scott said:
Reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite movies, "He not only took on the beast but pulled from its clutches, assisted by a more famous and brilliant firefighter, me, a kicking and screaming civilian who will probably wind up suing us for breaking her fingernails."
- Reaction score
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CountDC said:
I read that 13 Ontario municipalities now pay it. It has to do with parity under the arbitration system, as I understand it.
This goes into some detail of the arbitration system from the Ontario Emergency Services Steering Committee (ESSC) point of view:
https://www.pao.ca/library/Ability%20to%20Pay%20Position%20Paper%202011.pdf
This caught my eye:
"Looking at these years, the cumulative wage increases for police, fire and paramedics
have clearly exceeded the other cumulative increases. Consider that the emergency
services exceeded these comparators between 2005 and 2010 as follows:
· CPI by 77% (Police), 89% (Fire) and 110% (EMS);
· Average public sector increases by 19% (Police), 27% (Fire) and 41% (EMS);
· ONA Nurses by approximately 6% (Police), 13% (Fire) and 25% (EMS);
· Teachers by approximately 33% (Police), 42% (Fire) and 58% (EMS);
· OPSEU (OPS) by 43% (Police), 53% (Fire) and 70% (EMS);
· CUPE by 11.5% (Police), 19% (Fire) and 32% (EMS)
A similar trend exists with respect to benefit increases within the emergency services sector."
- Reaction score
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Gonna make this a double edged sword. Below are the calls that were called in to Chatam, On police department last year. Remember, every call has to be checked out. If there was less nonsense calls, there would be less need for officers to respond, less need to have as many on the road, and less need to pay OT.
Lets turn the onus on the citizens, you messed your bed, we are the ones that have to clean it
courtesy of Blue line forum
10. During a snow emergency in early February, a woman called police to complain that snowplows were cleaning her street and making too much noise.
9. A 17-year-old called police to seek advice. He wanted to know if he could disown his mother because she wouldn’t give him money.
8. A man called police about a roll of carpet on his front lawn.
7. A woman called 911 after being denied entry to a local nightclub. She forgot her identification and wanted an officer to attend to verify her name and prove to security staff that she was of legal drinking age. When she was told police don’t do that, she argued that they should.
6. A man called 911 to request an ambulance for a friend. Before the call ended, a man was heard in the background saying, "Don’t worry, I’ll get rid of the dope." Police were dispatched to the location but were unable to find any drugs.
5. A man called police when he saw a "small lion" cross the road in front of him. He was also quick to point out that he had not smoked any drugs — "that day."
4. A woman called police to have a man removed from her residence. She no longer wanted his company after they were sharing a sofa to sleep on. She wanted the other end but he wouldn’t switch.
3. A man called 911 to report that his vehicle was just stolen from his driveway. He provided a description and the direction of travel. Officers scoured the area but were unable to locate it until they attended his house and found it right where he left it. It turned out the man saw a vehicle just like his drive by his house and jumped to the conclusion his had been stolen.
2. Police responded to a 911 call when screaming was heard in the background. The investigation revealed that a couple were arguing because the man wanted to play Xbox while the woman wanted to play Nintendo Wii. The breaking point came when the man opened a new pack of cigarettes while another package was already open.
1. A woman called 911 because her cats ate her Whopper.
Lets turn the onus on the citizens, you messed your bed, we are the ones that have to clean it
courtesy of Blue line forum
10. During a snow emergency in early February, a woman called police to complain that snowplows were cleaning her street and making too much noise.
9. A 17-year-old called police to seek advice. He wanted to know if he could disown his mother because she wouldn’t give him money.
8. A man called police about a roll of carpet on his front lawn.
7. A woman called 911 after being denied entry to a local nightclub. She forgot her identification and wanted an officer to attend to verify her name and prove to security staff that she was of legal drinking age. When she was told police don’t do that, she argued that they should.
6. A man called 911 to request an ambulance for a friend. Before the call ended, a man was heard in the background saying, "Don’t worry, I’ll get rid of the dope." Police were dispatched to the location but were unable to find any drugs.
5. A man called police when he saw a "small lion" cross the road in front of him. He was also quick to point out that he had not smoked any drugs — "that day."
4. A woman called police to have a man removed from her residence. She no longer wanted his company after they were sharing a sofa to sleep on. She wanted the other end but he wouldn’t switch.
3. A man called 911 to report that his vehicle was just stolen from his driveway. He provided a description and the direction of travel. Officers scoured the area but were unable to locate it until they attended his house and found it right where he left it. It turned out the man saw a vehicle just like his drive by his house and jumped to the conclusion his had been stolen.
2. Police responded to a 911 call when screaming was heard in the background. The investigation revealed that a couple were arguing because the man wanted to play Xbox while the woman wanted to play Nintendo Wii. The breaking point came when the man opened a new pack of cigarettes while another package was already open.
1. A woman called 911 because her cats ate her Whopper.
- Reaction score
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HTA violations also account for OT.
Traffic court on a scheduled day off pays a minimum of four hours, at time and a half.
Traffic court before a scheduled shift pays three hours, at time and a half.
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Ahhh, Court. now that right there is the reason for a LOT of LEO's overtime. 10 hrs of paperwork and prep for one DUI with criminal charges, and that's if the officer is good at doing them!
If the laws were more streamlined for the prosecution side, we would have less paperwork, details, ineffective justice and usless appeals and could just keep the population safe. Every hour spent doing paperwork because "there was once a charter of rights and freedoms violation" is another hour we are not doing our job to keep the country safe.
my :2c:
If the laws were more streamlined for the prosecution side, we would have less paperwork, details, ineffective justice and usless appeals and could just keep the population safe. Every hour spent doing paperwork because "there was once a charter of rights and freedoms violation" is another hour we are not doing our job to keep the country safe.
my :2c:
- Reaction score
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Line of Duty injuries - including PTSD - to Police Officers, Firefighters and Paramedics also decrease the car count and increase OT.
They have to be temporarily or permanently accommodated into comparable or suitable jobs with the city.
Their pre-injury rate of pay must be maintained, and they receive all wage and benefit increases negotiated / arbitrated.
ie: There is no red-circling.
There has been recent discussion in other threads of "Retirement Gratuity". If interested,
"Upon termination of employment with the City of Toronto there shall be paid to every employee who has been in the employ
of the City for an aggregate period of at least ten (10) years;
At least 10 yrs. & less than 15 yrs: Three (3) calendar months
At least 15 yrs. & less than 20 yrs Four (4) calendar months
At least 20 yrs. & less than 25 yrs Five (5) calendar months
At least 25 years Six (6) calendar months
They have to be temporarily or permanently accommodated into comparable or suitable jobs with the city.
Their pre-injury rate of pay must be maintained, and they receive all wage and benefit increases negotiated / arbitrated.
ie: There is no red-circling.
There has been recent discussion in other threads of "Retirement Gratuity". If interested,
"Upon termination of employment with the City of Toronto there shall be paid to every employee who has been in the employ
of the City for an aggregate period of at least ten (10) years;
At least 10 yrs. & less than 15 yrs: Three (3) calendar months
At least 15 yrs. & less than 20 yrs Four (4) calendar months
At least 20 yrs. & less than 25 yrs Five (5) calendar months
At least 25 years Six (6) calendar months
- Reaction score
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- Points
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National Post
Aug 29, 2012
"Sick day benefits for police, firefighters too expensive, Dalton McGuinty says:
TORONTO — Ontario municipalities must ask themselves if they can afford to continue allowing police and firefighters to bank unused sick days during these tough economic times, Premier Dalton McGuinty said Wednesday.":
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/08/29/sick-day-benefits-for-police-firefighters-too-expensive-dalton-mcguinty-says/
Even if TPS negotiates an end to the sick bank gratuity when the contract expires at the end of 2014, it will take at least 30 years after the date of ratification to phase out.
Or, until the last member hired prior to that date decides to retire.
Same with TFS. They are still without a contract.
The City of Toronto ended it for paramedics hired after 31 July, 2009. ( The date their contract was ratified. )
But, it remains as is for anyone who hired on prior to that date.
They were grand-parented, and remain on the original plan.
My guess is that the same agreement would likely apply to police officers and firefighters.
"TORONTO, Aug. 29, 2012 /CNW/ - Statement by Dave McFadden, President of the Police Association of Ontario in response to remarks made by Premier Dalton McGuinty with regard to bankable sick day benefits for police.":
http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1027997/cost-of-professional-policing-in-ontario-stable-and-accountable-for-20-years
Aug 29, 2012
"Sick day benefits for police, firefighters too expensive, Dalton McGuinty says:
TORONTO — Ontario municipalities must ask themselves if they can afford to continue allowing police and firefighters to bank unused sick days during these tough economic times, Premier Dalton McGuinty said Wednesday.":
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/08/29/sick-day-benefits-for-police-firefighters-too-expensive-dalton-mcguinty-says/
Even if TPS negotiates an end to the sick bank gratuity when the contract expires at the end of 2014, it will take at least 30 years after the date of ratification to phase out.
Or, until the last member hired prior to that date decides to retire.
Same with TFS. They are still without a contract.
The City of Toronto ended it for paramedics hired after 31 July, 2009. ( The date their contract was ratified. )
But, it remains as is for anyone who hired on prior to that date.
They were grand-parented, and remain on the original plan.
My guess is that the same agreement would likely apply to police officers and firefighters.
"TORONTO, Aug. 29, 2012 /CNW/ - Statement by Dave McFadden, President of the Police Association of Ontario in response to remarks made by Premier Dalton McGuinty with regard to bankable sick day benefits for police.":
http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1027997/cost-of-professional-policing-in-ontario-stable-and-accountable-for-20-years
Eaglelord17
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
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I love how McGuinty wants to start to cut benefits from the Police, Teachers, EMS etc. to lower the amount of money spent, well he refuses to lower the amount of money he and his fellow MPP's make. Within his time in office he increased the amount MPP's make by over 25%
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/toronto/story.html?id=c0819f8e-9cc1-4f8d-a532-31106ff6fb33&p=1
*(I know it only says he is defending it but this is a article from around 2006)
This article has the current pay rates well the previous one had the old on there.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/03/07/toronto-dalton-mcguinty-wage-freeze.html
It is one thing to call for a pay freeze especially after increasing your income by 25% over the last 5 years, but another all together to try to remove the benefits for people who do important work and potentially put there lives into dangerous situations on a daily basis.
Cut your own pay McGuinty as it was you and your party which lead Ontario into this financial situation not the police or anyone else.
Just my :2c:
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/toronto/story.html?id=c0819f8e-9cc1-4f8d-a532-31106ff6fb33&p=1
*(I know it only says he is defending it but this is a article from around 2006)
This article has the current pay rates well the previous one had the old on there.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/03/07/toronto-dalton-mcguinty-wage-freeze.html
It is one thing to call for a pay freeze especially after increasing your income by 25% over the last 5 years, but another all together to try to remove the benefits for people who do important work and potentially put there lives into dangerous situations on a daily basis.
Cut your own pay McGuinty as it was you and your party which lead Ontario into this financial situation not the police or anyone else.
Just my :2c:
- Reaction score
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- Points
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Eaglelord17 said:
From what I read in the papers, I think our emergency services provide good value.
For example, ten years ago T-EMS put 67 ambulances in service every morning.
Now it has fallen to 60.
Even though there has been a 24.9 per cent increase in call volume during that time.
TFS currently has 128 emergency response vehicles. In 1998, they had 133.
Their call volume has increased by 29 per cent.
Ref: Sun June 09, 2012
As the police association pointed out yesterday, "The cost of policing takes up the same percentage of budgets now as it did 20 years ago."
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ObedientiaZelum said:
Yea,...that's pretty easy to say when you have a job that your employer will still pay you until you get better......not so much when you don't.
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Banking sick days isn't the issue. Paying them out on retirement is.
- Reaction score
- 2,389
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I suspect that as economic times worsen, unions are going to get less and less sympathy.
Yes, the MPPs should demonstrate leadership by accepting some cuts -- financial and/or perks. Sick days could still be banked, for use as required for legitimate ailment/injury, but not paid out as a simple cash-grab. Newly-hired TO paramedics apparently lost this perk, yet their world still turns. For those who consistently use each and every sick day, while co-workers in exact same circumstances do not....well, in the Army that's called malingering.
Sorry unions, welcome to the 21st Century.
Yes, the MPPs should demonstrate leadership by accepting some cuts -- financial and/or perks. Sick days could still be banked, for use as required for legitimate ailment/injury, but not paid out as a simple cash-grab. Newly-hired TO paramedics apparently lost this perk, yet their world still turns. For those who consistently use each and every sick day, while co-workers in exact same circumstances do not....well, in the Army that's called malingering.
Sorry unions, welcome to the 21st Century.
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