• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Choices After BFT

Looking4Higher

Guest
Inactive
Reaction score
0
Points
10
This question is for anyone out there already in the system.  I understand that a pilot candidate after completion of BFT has the choice or is selected to one of three streams (RW, Multi, Fast Jet).  My question is this, other than the candidates selected for Fast Jet, can a candidate bid for his/her first tour as a Instructor at Moose Jaw or is it reserved for just the Fast Jet people only??

Thanks
 
You can still bid for Moose Jaw as a first tour.
I did  ..... no wait ...... I was told ... that I was going to do Moose Jaw as a first tour.
It wasn't bad - not what I wanted.

There are pros and cons, but it really boils down to what you want as a personal career choice.
Put your bid in hor what "YOU" want ... and then let the chips fall where they may.

That's all I can say really - but there is nothing wrong with a pipeline first tour QFI in YMJ.

Good luck.
 
For the past two years (the only timeframe I can speak for), pipeline instructors have only come from the fast jet stream.
 
^^^that doesn't make any sense....you're not a pipeline if you came from "fast jet" stream.
Unless you're implying that you must be selected to go "jets" in order to pipe into FIS.

Off note, what's with "fast jet"....is there such thing as "slow jet"??
 
Looking4Higher, not sure how far along you are, but there's another change in the works.  They are running a "PFT-Extended" course this fall (on a trial basis) that would cover the syllabus of BFT (Moose Jaw), but be done in Portage on the Grobs and be less Fast Jet-oriented (similar to what has been run for foreigners in the past): of course the catch is that graduates would almost certainly be forfeiting any chance to go AFT - Fast Jet (and presumably Instructor, unless Globesmasher's experience is more common than I've been led to believe). 

P.S> Also no Harvard, no Hawk.
 
Not to mention, the Helo community ain't all that bad....new birds on the way, CANSOFCOM etc.....
 
SF2 said:
Not to mention, the Helo community ain't all that bad....new birds on the way, CANSOFCOM etc.....

Yep, and a lot of people seem to agree: there's a pretty large proportion of Pilote-Aspirantes that want Helo as their first choice ... lotsa Multi guys, too ... I was just sayin' ...
 
P.S>
SF2 said:
Off note, what's with "fast jet"....is there such thing as "slow jet"??

Yup, as in:
All of these services are required to be delivered by a combination of fast jet (military style) and slow jet (business style) aircraft.
http://www.mdn.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1614

Presumably someone out there (with more TI than me  :blotto: ) knows which stream the Challenger & Polaris/Airbus guys come out of (but FWIW I'd guess it's Multi).
 
SF2 said:
^^^that doesn't make any sense....you're not a pipeline if you came from "fast jet" stream.
Unless you're implying that you must be selected to go "jets" in order to pipe into FIS.

Off note, what's with "fast jet"....is there such thing as "slow jet"??

It makes total sense, if you you've been there recently.

When I went through 4 years ago, 3 guys on my course got jets, 2 went on to Hornets after getting their wings, the third stayed in Moose Jaw to instruct. So, he was a pipe instructor from the jet stream, get it? You had to be selected for jets in order to stay in Moose Jaw and instruct.

Personally, I disagree with pipe instructors. Guys with around 300-400 hrs total time teaching Ab Initio students on an aircraft with a VNe of 316 knots? Plus they've never been anywhere or done anything other than what they're taught in Moose Jaw. In my opinion, you need to have a little bit of real world experience in order to be an effective instructor. The best instructors I had were second tour guys, they'd seen a bunch of different stuff, had over 1000 hrs total flying time (usually much more) and could tell you from experience why things were done the way they were.

No offence to Globesmasher, just my opinion is all.  ;)
 
I guess I misunderstood......yeah, guys go pipeline when selected for jets - when he said "fast jet", I assumed he meant 2nd tour guys from the Hornet community.  A pipeliner nowadays hasn't even set foot in a jet.

As far as pipeliners as ab initio instructors - I can't really say, because I had a really crappy experience with a multi-tour operation guy, and a really good one with a pipeliner.  In the Moose Jaw context, its hit or miss.
 
SF2 said:
I guess I misunderstood......yeah, guys go pipeline when selected for jets - when he said "fast jet", I assumed he meant 2nd tour guys from the Hornet community.  A pipeliner nowadays hasn't even set foot in a jet.

As far as pipeliners as ab initio instructors - I can't really say, because I had a really crappy experience with a multi-tour operation guy, and a really good one with a pipeliner.  In the Moose Jaw context, its hit or miss.

A lot does depend on personality, which is hit or miss,  but I can say without a doubt, a German Tornado pilot with loads of hours was far and away the best instructor I had there, tied for second was a TacHel guy and a Sea King guy. In fact, the Sea King guy is the one that convinced me to go Sea Kings, and I absolutely love it.  ;D
 
SF2 said:
I guess I misunderstood......yeah, guys go pipeline when selected for jets - when he said "fast jet", I assumed he meant 2nd tour guys from the Hornet community.  A pipeliner nowadays hasn't even set foot in a jet.

Sorry for the confusion, as Inch explained I meant the guys who'd been selected for jets out of Ph II. And pipe instructors do have jet time, as they do Ph III on the Hawk prior to starting the Harvard FIC. I called it "fast jet" because that's what everyone else calls it  :)
 
Crimmsy said:
Sorry for the confusion, as Inch explained I meant the guys who'd been selected for jets out of Ph II. And pipe instructors do have jet time, as they do Ph III on the Hawk prior to starting the Harvard FIC. I called it "fast jet" because that's what everyone else calls it  :)

Obviously not us and you've got winged pilots posting in this thread!  ;)
 
nd pipe instructors do have jet time, as they do Ph III on the Hawk prior to starting the Harvard FIC. I called it "fast jet" because that's what everyone else calls it

That is incorrect - unless they've changed it since 2001 when I went thru - none of my instructors had any time on the Hawk.  And the pipeliners did Phase IIB on the Harvard, then started FIS.

The only guys who call it fast jet are the guys that do it...the rest of us, well, would probably get deleted by moderators.  :)
 
I went through last year and the pipes did Phase III, with the selection for FIS and FLIT happening at the end of that. I didn't know it had ever been done differently in the time that NFTC has been running. Did guys do Phase IIB knowing that they'd be going to FIS afterwards or was the decision made at the end of it?
 
In my time (god I  can't believe I'm using that phrase) the decision was made after Phase IIa - the pipes would then move on to IIB, then to FIS.  Again, I might be totally wrong - I didn't really pay attention to what the ***edited for content*** guys were doing - I just wanted to get the hell out of there.

I wouldn't see a need for Harvard guys to go thru Phase III on the Hawk - but then again, many would argue against Helo guys going thru moose jaw at all.....but that's a whole other can of worms...
 
Hey everyone, thanks for the input.  The only reason I brought up this question is that from everything I've read or people I have talked too, it seems that the only ones that get to go instructor for their first tour is the AFT (Jet) stream people.

As far as someone instructing ab-initio with 200 - 400 hours TT, or whatever was quoted, sure I agree that the lack of "real life" experience can be a hindrance to both the instructor and the student.  But I also believe that and have seen where a young dedicated instructor that knows his/her craft and who is an effective instructor but lacking that real world experience, can be more of a benefit to a student than that of a pilot with vast amounts of "real world" experience who cannot effectively draw from said experience and apply it into the training environment.

I hope I am not touching a nerve with that but from my experience it is sometimes the case, not always.

As for me, I am just starting OJT and looking at all options that may be available to me when the time comes.  I think if it was available, instructing would be great, but when all is said and done, as long as I am flying there will be a smile on my face!

Cheers!

 
Inch said:
Personally, I disagree with pipe instructors. Guys with around 300-400 hrs total time teaching Ab Initio students on an aircraft with a VNe of 316 knots? Plus they've never been anywhere or done anything other than what they're taught in Moose Jaw. In my opinion, you need to have a little bit of real world experience in order to be an effective instructor. The best instructors I had were second tour guys, they'd seen a bunch of different stuff, had over 1000 hrs total flying time (usually much more) and could tell you from experience why things were done the way they were.

No offence to Globesmasher, just my opinion is all.  ;)

Inch,  Certainly there is merit to what you are saying once a student makes it to phase III or even to the OTU, but I would have to disagree with the idea that Pipes don't make good instructors (and no, I'm not one.)

Considering the scope of phase II, the Pipeliners have all the experience neccessary to teach these basic skills.  Instructors don't have to be able to teach a student how to shoot an approach into Vancouver in the fog because that's not part of the scope of the course.  Pipeliner instructors have been in Moose Jaw for many, many years.  Also, these pipeline instructors get "run through the wringer" when they go through FIS, and the staff there make sure these new instructors know what they're doing.  When I went through Moose Jaw, we saw different quality of instructors from all levels of experience.  It was more about the individual...and that being said, some of the best instructors were pipeliners; maybe because they were fresh, maybe because they remembered what it was like to be a student; or maybe just because they had the gift...

Just my opinion.
Kingfisher
 
Back
Top