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Change of Command drill question / passing of the Colours and Swagger (Pace) stick

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rmc_wannabe

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If the Army has no better things to do, they could very well be gainfully employed as Wing Auxiliary Security Forces.
If the majority of our Air Force is brought to combat ineffectiveness for a 2 hour parade every 2 years, I have some serious questions about recruiting, retention, and force employment.
 

Ostrozac

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If the majority of our Air Force is brought to combat ineffectiveness for a 2 hour parade every 2 years, I have some serious questions about recruiting, retention, and force employment.
If you’re worried about the RCAF’s combat ineffectiveness, I have some bad news about procurement, maintenance, training and retention. Admittedly, parades are unlikely to do much more damage, but they also won’t do much good.

Besides, indications are that the CAF as an institution doesn’t think parades are very important. Because if leadership thought that parades were important, they wouldn‘t have outsourced the supply of dress uniforms to a provider that was incapable of reliably providing the pieces of said uniforms.
 

The Bread Guy

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SupersonicMax

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Once more everyone including the RCAF is responsible for their own security. Not The RCR PPCLI or Vandoos
From our doctrine:

1653160415568.jpeg

We are all under the same command. We should all strive to use our ressources efficiently. If it means supporting other elements in their missions then so be it.
 

OldSolduer

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Honestly the culture of the Army is different. DO you have parades just for the sake of having them?

We paraded every morning to see if everyone was there and not off somewhere else. It was also to pass on relevant information to the troops.
 

Eye In The Sky

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If the Army has no better things to do, they could very well be gainfully employed as Wing Auxiliary Security Forces.

I get that you’ve never worn a green DEU and have no appreciation for traditions that the Army might hold more close to the heart than the RCAF, but being insulting and condescending isn’t the best approach.

Why not ask and learn what different environments still believe in “having some military in the military”.

That seems the conduct more befitting a snr officer.
 

Eye In The Sky

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If the majority of our Air Force is brought to combat ineffectiveness for a 2 hour parade every 2 years, I have some serious questions about recruiting, retention, and force employment.

They’re not; LRP continued to do CofC parades during IMPACT which was a 3 year sustained op for us. We also continued doing several other international Ops, domestic ops, exercises etc. Downing tools and clearing the FlyPro for a day or 2 (less no duff SAR sorties) is a fairly big PITA for people already at max capacity for extended times. CofC Parades in the RCAF also include a fly past usually, so crews to fly/launch/recover, efforts from the MSS and OSS for same.

CofC ceremony in the mess? Very easy to do and requires WComd team and other unit Comd Teams vice “the whole gang” from all units. Our upcoming one, only 9 people total will be in 1As, including the Colour Officer and Orderly. Everyone else, comfortably seated in 3B. Image tech? 3B.

The army isn’t operational in garrison; big difference. The RCAF also doesn’t appreciate the value in large parades - the effort, focus, esprit de corps etc that comes with something like the big CTC grad parade with roll pasts etc.

Having lived both DEU lifestyles, I get both and think both suit the environments. TacHel folks are maybe the closet hybrid of the 2 worlds.

The only parade I saw take a whole week was the CTC grad parade but it also was more than “just a parade”.
 
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Good2Golf

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Parades aren’t burdensome unless they’re turned into something unreasonable. A town hall or an AMA, is also a parade, just that people don’t think of it as such, but it is.

Most CoC’s (TacHel) I’ve seen have the Reviewing Officer give a tip to outgoing and incoming COs, but focus on the unit and it’s members’ contribution to the formation’s order of battle.

Heck, even for the presentation of a Squadron’s Colours by the GG, I’ve only seen ~6/7 hrs total practice over a couple of days to carry out the ceremony. I have never seen a unit take a week to practice for a parade.
 

Eye In The Sky

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Wing CofC; IIRC, 1 day practice. 0800-1000 was “without Flts” so the +WO/+Capt ranks coukd get the rhythm down. Remainder arrived @ 1000. Complete rehearsal in slowish time. Dinner. Complete rehearsal in the afternoon w/fly past to get the final pieces in order. Dress of the day, and some light hearted moments when people took a few extra paces on the Advance in review order, or someone in a Comd position made a funny turn or stuff like that. Outgoing WComd had a chance to talk to folks informally one last time…

Next day; parade in the morning, move to the mess, and traditionally , new WComd calls
Min Manning for remainder of the week (was common for CofC to be on Thursday).
 

OldSolduer

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Parades aren’t burdensome unless they’re turned into something unreasonable. A town hall or an AMA, is also a parade, just that people don’t think of it as such, but it is.

Most CoC’s (TacHel) I’ve seen have the Reviewing Officer give a tip to outgoing and incoming COs, but focus on the unit and it’s members’ contribution to the formation’s order of battle.

Heck, even for the presentation of a Squadron’s Colours by the GG, I’ve only seen ~6/7 hrs total practice over a couple of days to carry out the ceremony. I have never seen a unit take a week to practice for a parade.
Trooping of The Colours six weeks.

If any of you have never seen one please do. You’ll appreciate it.
 

OldSolduer

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I get that you’ve never worn a green DEU and have no appreciation for traditions that the Army might hold more close to the heart than the RCAF, but being insulting and condescending isn’t the best approach.

Why not ask and learn what different environments still believe in “having some military in the military”.

That seems the conduct more befitting a snr officer.

Just to add the infantry won’t do WASF. They are generally chasing bad guys
 

Eye In The Sky

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Just to add the infantry won’t do WASF. They are generally chasing bad guys

I’d have to check but I don’t think our WASF includes 1st or 2nd line techs and definitely not aircrew. It’s primarily made up of Mission Support Squadron folks who support but aren’t involved in conducting flying operations.

I don’t do WASF but I also left work last Sunday at 2330. It wasn’t a duty day, I just had lots of stuff coming up with deadlines; we all pay our pound of flesh.
 
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Eye In The Sky

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Trooping of The Colours six weeks.

If any of you have never seen one please do. You’ll appreciate it.

Some might not remember this, but the RCAF seems proud to include this under the Showcasing the RCAF folder. This was definitely deemed worth the effort and hours and costs.

 

SupersonicMax

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I get that you’ve never worn a green DEU and have no appreciation for traditions that the Army might hold more close to the heart than the RCAF, but being insulting and condescending isn’t the best approach.

Why not ask and learn what different environments still believe in “having some military in the military”.

That seems the conduct more befitting a snr officer.
That’s not meant as an insult. It is actually something that is being looked at.
 

Eye In The Sky

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That’s not meant as an insult. It is actually something that is being looked at.

Maybe not meant to be, but could easily be taken that way.

As a young army NCO a few moons ago, I took pride in my ability in things like drill; maybe that is changing but maybe that’s not a 100% good thing.

Having left green DEUs behind more than a few years ago, I’m very happy to shift to CofC ceremonies. 😁
 
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