M
MikeL
Guest
Fred Herriot said:
Chinooks are employed by 160th SOAR and support USSOCOM, seems to work well as a platform for them. I'm sure CANSOFCOM can emply and find ways to use the Chinooks.
CH47 Chinook
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Chinooks are employed by 160th SOAR and support USSOCOM, seems to work well as a platform for them. I'm sure CANSOFCOM can emply and find ways to use the Chinooks.
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Some of today's news:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Ground+breaking+ceremony+held+Chinook+helicopter+fleet+Petawawa/3968687/story.html
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Government-of-Canada-Invests-in-CH-147-Chinook-Infrastructure-at-CFB-Petawawa-1367960.htm
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Media-Advisory-Government-Canada-Breaks-Ground-on-CH-147-Chinook-Helicopter-Hangar-CFB-1367449.htm
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Ground+breaking+ceremony+held+Chinook+helicopter+fleet+Petawawa/3968687/story.html
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Government-of-Canada-Invests-in-CH-147-Chinook-Infrastructure-at-CFB-Petawawa-1367960.htm
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Media-Advisory-Government-Canada-Breaks-Ground-on-CH-147-Chinook-Helicopter-Hangar-CFB-1367449.htm
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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I rather like the Chinook as well. Although I've never flown in the current D model, I did fly in them in the late 70s....before we "divested" our selves of them.CombatDoc said:
The last one I flew in was in 96, a US Army Hook in Ft Polk, Louisiana. I have never flown in one in Afghanistan, but I appreciate your love for them Doc.
An impressive chopper.
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Jammer said:
^ concur.
4XX has not been decided yet, but it will be separate (other side of the Mattawa, where the shovels were dug today) from 427 SOAS. Betting folks would likely put their money on 450 Sqn as it was the senior CH147 Sqn (over 447 Sqn) and had perpetuation of 1 Transport Helicopter Platoon (THP, a.k.a. 1 Thump) history, the squadron that flew the Chinook's baby brother, the Voyageur, back when the Royal Canadian Army Service Corps (RCASC) flew them in the transport role. That said, the Forces could surprise people by renumbering the squadron with another decommissioned squadron for some other reason? Whatever the unit number, it would most likely be a conventional tactical helicopter squadron (THS) within 1 Wing's direct chain of command, unlike 427 SOAS operating under operational command (OPCOM) of CANSOFCOM. For Chinook support, CANSOFCOM would likely submit a request for such support just like any other requesting CF organization.
Gov't is on record as stating that the 6 CH147D's will be disposed of upon termination of their mission in AFG, so the total future Chinook fleet will be 15 CH147F's.
Regards
G2G
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Shame that memo wasn't passed around in-theatre.Jammer said:
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Good2Golf said:
The 46th anniversary of 1 Thump's stand-up was just days agao, on 10 December. This also, therefore, was the 46th birthday of Tac Hel.
Good2Golf said:
Ummm... 5 CH147Ds, courtesy of some unknown Taliban chap.
Oh, and "topic merged".
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*cough* UAV *cough*Loachman said:
;D
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I didn't specify; I just included "some dedicated ISR support" in the request.Loachman said:
I did specify the Chinooks, but he was getting the big bucks to fill in the details
Loachman said:
That makes the birth of 1 THP as 10 December 1964, but I was introduced to the CO in Gagetown in the summer of 1964. (I don't think they had any aircraft at that time.) Somebody thought it would be a neat thing to do because we had the same last name, albit with different spellings.
I am 99% sure that there were at least two operational tac hel flights in 4 CIBG at the time: the Bde HQ C&L Flight and the Hel Tp in the Recce Sqn. That means we came push the birth date of Tac Hel even farther back.
Sorry for the hijack.
Modify to add: There was a third "aviation unit" in 4 CIBG. The aviation platoon (not sure if that is the correct name) in 4 Field Workshop RCEME did the second line maintenance on the L19s and CH112s in the brigade. The platoon commander was supposed to be qualified as a pilot so he could test fly his platoon's work.
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My original source was, I believe, Maple Leaf several years ago. That article was quite definite that 1 Transport Helicopter Platoon was the first Tac Hel unit in the CF. I accepted it as fact but it may not have been so much.
From http://www.hillmanweb.com/rivers/07.html:
So, out by one year on that (either the article was or I have slipped a year on my calendar notation somehow), as backed up by http://www.militarybruce.com/published_news/rivers-air-base.html which also states that:
But what were those pilots flying operationally in the late fifties?
From http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/v2/equip/hst/nomad-eng.asp
Although, from what I was told when arriving at 427 Squadron in 1982, Kiowas replaced L19s and Cessna 172s there in the AOP role. There was still sigs wire laid by these aircraft hanging in some tree tops.
http://rcaf.com/Aircraft/aircraftDetail.php?NOMAD-174 only specifies 4 Brigade in:
http://www.rotorhead.org/military/nomad.asp does not mention 4 Brigade at all, just Pet and Rivers:
http://www.ody.ca/~bwalker/CAF_Hiller_details.html has the most detail, giving short histories for each CH112. The only operational use is listed as RCD in Lahr. That backs up the account of L19s and Cessna 172s as the only AOP aircraft in Petawawa and elsewhere. Unfortunately, the earliest dates for each of the Hiller accounts is 11 June 1970, at which time they were all renumbered into the current tail number system, and no mention of when they commenced operational service in Lahr.
http://www.manitobamilitaryaviationmuseum.com/PDF/CJATCRivers.pdf discusses training Army pilots for L19s and helicopter conversions, but does not mention operational helicopter flying in any detail.
Okay, Tac Hel's true birthday is now uncertain, and I have amended my calendar to reflect 1 Thump's correct birthday. There are gaps in readily available information.
I did learn that Stanley Hiller built his first helicopter at the age of nineteen. Some interesting photographs of his designs can be found at http://www.helis.com/timeline/hiller.php
From http://www.hillmanweb.com/rivers/07.html:
So, out by one year on that (either the article was or I have slipped a year on my calendar notation somehow), as backed up by http://www.militarybruce.com/published_news/rivers-air-base.html which also states that:
But what were those pilots flying operationally in the late fifties?
From http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/v2/equip/hst/nomad-eng.asp
Although, from what I was told when arriving at 427 Squadron in 1982, Kiowas replaced L19s and Cessna 172s there in the AOP role. There was still sigs wire laid by these aircraft hanging in some tree tops.
http://rcaf.com/Aircraft/aircraftDetail.php?NOMAD-174 only specifies 4 Brigade in:
http://www.rotorhead.org/military/nomad.asp does not mention 4 Brigade at all, just Pet and Rivers:
http://www.ody.ca/~bwalker/CAF_Hiller_details.html has the most detail, giving short histories for each CH112. The only operational use is listed as RCD in Lahr. That backs up the account of L19s and Cessna 172s as the only AOP aircraft in Petawawa and elsewhere. Unfortunately, the earliest dates for each of the Hiller accounts is 11 June 1970, at which time they were all renumbered into the current tail number system, and no mention of when they commenced operational service in Lahr.
http://www.manitobamilitaryaviationmuseum.com/PDF/CJATCRivers.pdf discusses training Army pilots for L19s and helicopter conversions, but does not mention operational helicopter flying in any detail.
Okay, Tac Hel's true birthday is now uncertain, and I have amended my calendar to reflect 1 Thump's correct birthday. There are gaps in readily available information.
I did learn that Stanley Hiller built his first helicopter at the age of nineteen. Some interesting photographs of his designs can be found at http://www.helis.com/timeline/hiller.php
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I'll defer to experts but I recall the Hillers as Command & Liaison aircraft and L-19s (Birdogs?) as AOP aircraft - but maybe only where I served.
You are correct that 1 THP was the first formed helicopter unit with a CO, etc. There had been at least one independent AOP Troop before this, but each field regiment eventually had an AOP Troop. The flights I mentioned were also sub-units of other units.
In the late fifties the army was trying to establish a pool of helicopter pilots besides the artillery fixed wing AOP pilots. There were enough by the early sixties that a flight would appear in Gagetown for the summer concentrations. I think they were home based in CJATC Rivers. You have covered that based with your comment re the AATTS.
I can confirm that L19s were used for AOP in the places mentioned. I had my first flight in one in 1961 as an officer cadet as part of our training.
As for the CH112s, I flew as a passenger in the brigade helicopter aircraft circa 1965-1966. As I posted before, this included a no duff autorotation when the warning lights on the instrument panel started doing really funny stuff.
The army also tried to build aviation awareness with a program to teach full colonels and above to fly. The graduates included Allard, Moncel and Wilson-Smith, while Dextraze was taken off the course to go to the Congo. These gentlemen tended to want to keep their hours in so they could draw flight pay. As they were past their prime in terms of coordination, depth perception, etc and had only been basically trained, the junior pilots in the local AOP Troop, for example, used to be detailed to fly with them. In Gagetown one could tell when the brigadier had been flying by watching for a white-knuckled AOP pilot hanging on the bar.
In the late fifties the army was trying to establish a pool of helicopter pilots besides the artillery fixed wing AOP pilots. There were enough by the early sixties that a flight would appear in Gagetown for the summer concentrations. I think they were home based in CJATC Rivers. You have covered that based with your comment re the AATTS.
I can confirm that L19s were used for AOP in the places mentioned. I had my first flight in one in 1961 as an officer cadet as part of our training.
As for the CH112s, I flew as a passenger in the brigade helicopter aircraft circa 1965-1966. As I posted before, this included a no duff autorotation when the warning lights on the instrument panel started doing really funny stuff.
The army also tried to build aviation awareness with a program to teach full colonels and above to fly. The graduates included Allard, Moncel and Wilson-Smith, while Dextraze was taken off the course to go to the Congo. These gentlemen tended to want to keep their hours in so they could draw flight pay. As they were past their prime in terms of coordination, depth perception, etc and had only been basically trained, the junior pilots in the local AOP Troop, for example, used to be detailed to fly with them. In Gagetown one could tell when the brigadier had been flying by watching for a white-knuckled AOP pilot hanging on the bar.
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The RCD also had a Helicopter Troop (Hillers) in Germany, which got swollowed up by 444 Tac Hel in 1970.
1 THP which became 450 Sqn. had always been designated as transport-450(T) Sqn. I believe that it changed to Tac when the Chinooks were taken out of service and replaced by the small helicopters.
My first recollection of the term Tac Hel was in the 70's when 403, 408 and the other units that used CH-135s were called Tac Hel Squadrons.
Away back when L-19s were used as artillery observation aircraft and trainers. The L-172 was a liaison aircraft.
The CH-112 Nomad was a training helicopter in Rivers and some were in Germany. I don't know for sure but I think that they flew in support of armored operations. 1THP had one for a utility helicopter.
My first recollection of the term Tac Hel was in the 70's when 403, 408 and the other units that used CH-135s were called Tac Hel Squadrons.
Away back when L-19s were used as artillery observation aircraft and trainers. The L-172 was a liaison aircraft.
The CH-112 Nomad was a training helicopter in Rivers and some were in Germany. I don't know for sure but I think that they flew in support of armored operations. 1THP had one for a utility helicopter.
