CFRG and the broken recruiting system-Split

[chrisf]

The headline is wrong... Should read "man assumes he's entitled to a job"

The cf recruiting system desperately needs streamlining, but I'm not sure what the issue is here?

If there's no openings, there's no openings.

Heck he was given an offer and turned it down?

 

[Lightguns]

I love the CYA, you didn't say "living in Kingston"!  Oiy Vey!

 

[Nuggs]

Only an institution like the CAF could manage to be so ineffective at getting enough 17 or 18 years olds to play with guns and go camping...

Funny because unfortunately it's so true.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Inspir]

From intelligence officer, to pilot, then to marine engineer. He's going to be even more surprised when he finds out that trade will no longer exist after Christmas.

 

[George Wallace]

That this guy took this to the media raises a few questions/spider senses.  He told the CFRC that he was in Kingston, not that he had "MOVED" to Kingston.  The staff at the CFRC are not mind readers.  He could have been visiting for all they knew.  He supposedly has an education and should have done some research and then had his File transferred to Kingston if he knew he was moving.  Most of his complaints are a result of his actions, not the CFRC. 

If he, by chance, had visited this site, all of his current problems have been discussed by numerous site members over the years. 

All the previous posters in this thread have made numerous valid points.  Whining to the media that you can't join, or failed in your attempt to join, the CAF is rediculous.  He should hide in shame for this childish act.

 

[mariomike]

Whining to the media that you can't join, or failed in your attempt to join, the CAF is rediculous. He should hide in shame for this childish act.

Not meant as advice, because it could be wrong. But, this is what I was led to believe, and still do,

Never, never  admit that the institution you work for, or hope to work for, has done anything wrong.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Email any head hunter, company HR people, etc in civie land with that tone/message and you will likely find yourself off a short list as well.  If your primary residence is listed officially as BC, the Kingston CFRC won't have your file.  When I CTd, I moved during processing and with one quick phone call, my file was transferred to the local CFRC.  Easy peasy.

Sure, there are problems in the recruiting system, but this article smells more like another "I'm a special snowflake  :tempertantrum:" story that is becoming more accepted in our society as 'valid'.  It even points to him not being available for things the CFRC had tried to schedule him for.

IMO.

 

[Remius]

There is more to this story. Unfortunately CFRG can't and won't reveal anything due to the privacy act. 

 

[mariomike]

Unfortunately CFRG can't and won't reveal anything due to the privacy act.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

While there is likely more to this story, it's painfully clear the recruiting system is broken. The timeframes are unrealistic and going by what I can see in the Public Service, is we have added all that is bad from the PS onto all that is bad in the military side. I suspect the internal frustrations of many a recruiter is quite high.

 

[PuckChaser]

Shame Christie Blatchford bought this guy's story hook line and sinker. He screams administrative burden to me.

Maybe Blatchford would like to do an article on the CT/OT process, where members are advised it'd be faster for them to release completely and reapply. After a 2+ year wait, that's exactly what one friend had done, even quitting a long term Cl B to do so.

 

[George Wallace]

While there is likely more to this story, it's painfully clear the recruiting system is broken. The timeframes are unrealistic and going by what I can see in the Public Service, is we have added all that is bad from the PS onto all that is bad in the military side. I suspect the internal frustrations of many a recruiter is quite high.

Well.  We do live in dangerous times.  Security checks are more necessary today than they were several decades before, and then there are the raised Education and Health requirements.  In a more complex world, the recruiting process is also made more complex.  We already have enough trouble weeding out possible "problem children"; opening the floodgates would only exacerbate problems.

 

[PuckChaser]

We're not giving everyone a secret security clearance, background checks don't have to take forever. 30 days is more than enough time to complete physical health, mental health (I added this step), interview, CFAT, FORCE (added step) and put that person on a merit list. The recruiting center has to get certain trades on certain courses at specific times, why there is not a national time appreciation done each year, with fixed dates for merit board and BMQ determined, I have no idea. Someone should be able to be told that when they're merit listed, the board will sit on this date, for BMQ starting this day.

 

[mariomike]

In a more complex world, the recruiting process is also made more complex. 

It may also have something to do with the increase in the average age of applicants over the years?

How much "baggage" - all of which must be sorted out during the application process - has an individual who applies later in life accumulated compared to when s/he was 16 or 17? 

 

[ueo]

400+ days and the process is still ongoing. Really, but without seeing the file its difficult to comment rationally.

 

[runormal]

Shame Christie Blatchford bought this guy's story hook line and sinker. He screams administrative burden to me.

Maybe Blatchford would like to do an article on the CT/OT process, where members are advised it'd be faster for them to release completely and reapply. After a 2+ year wait, that's exactly what one friend had done, even quitting a long term Cl B to do so.

:nod:

I've toyed with it. CFRC told me to, DMCPG-5 told me to.

I don't mind waiting a bit (2-3 years) because there aren't spots in the CF or because there are stronger applicants in front of me. Honestly I'd wait longer if required, or fix whatever deficiencies I have. But being told that you can't apply for this trade for 5 years because you are a reservist doesn't make any sense. Yet the military is sending people to RMC for it and taking DEO's..

The reason I haven't released, is quite frankly I enjoy being in the reserves. It also seems pretty stupid to waste 1-2 years (guess) of time as an applicant. I'd much rather wait as a reservist. Perhaps once I get a solid plan for the short term I'll pull the pin..

 

[mariomike]

Really, but without seeing the file its difficult to comment rationally.

:goodpost:

 

[MeinBob]

I don't know the actual particulars of this case, it may be he is the "one guy" that is a problem, but I doubt it.  I do know from first hand experience the brutal problems we are having with recruiting. Recruiting has become an infuriating problem. We have many that want in my Battery, but they can't, because recruiting is FUBAR.

It does not take three months to do a basic security screening of applicants. It takes minutes to do the search on the police database. It does not take months to do a medical, it takes minutes to do it. It does take months and even years to process applicants when the system is so administratively complex and broken.

In 1988 it took me less than three weeks to apply and then be on my basic infantry course. In 2006 when I joined back up, it took three months, and my application was viewed as being exceptionally quick! Remarkable, given that when I applied in 1988 there was no internet to send files, and few local computers to process information. Somehow with all of our technology and databases we can't move a file faster than an Ox wagon could. 

We have had several files in my unit that have taken years to process. Most, if done quickly take an average of six months to process. We have not had one enrollment in five months, and we have over 40 files waiting to be finished, most have been in "process" for over six months. With over 100 files in the system and 40 that are just waiting to be "finished", it is obvious that things are right off the rails, and any defense of the status quo can only be made with complete ignorance of the current situation. 

I can't imagine a more efficient way to destroy a Battery. We have remarkable retention, we have the lowest NES rate in the Brigade, and one of the highest participation rates in Brigade training events, but we can't grow our unit without any recruits. This is shameful, and I am beginning to think that it might not just be incompetence and inefficiency that has caused all of this. Heads need to roll.

 

[mba2011]

It does not take three months to do a basic security screening of applicants. It takes minutes to do the search on the police database. It does not take months to do a medical, it takes minutes to do it. It does take months and even years to process applicants when the system is so administratively complex and broken.

I don't work in a CFRC or in the recruiting system at all, but I do have some insight into the Security Clearance side of things. Even for Enhanced reliability, they need to go through the office in Ottawa, which deals with All Security clearances for the CF. For Enhanced reliability status its more than just searching CPIC, and signing off on it. Does it take months to do (ignoring the backlog and information problems), no. But its not as simple as just running the name through CPIC (which does take mins). Based on the article he was applying for Reg Force, so they would do Criminal Record, Credit, Family and a few other checks, in Ottawa.

As far as the medical, that process is FUBAR for everyone. As far as I know, not all recruiting centers have a MO in house anymore, meaning that a base MO has to be tasked to do the Recruit Medicals, and with a shortage of MOs and a significant strain on the system as is, the recruit medicals get prioritized below current serving soldiers and their medical needs.

Not saying you are wrong or that the system works, just clarifying the reality of that part of the process.

 

[medicineman]

After reading the article, I have a few things to say...first off the guy in the picture should be next to the DSM-V definition of narcissistic personality disorder, just looking at him.  First impressions are everything - I don't get a warm and fuzzy from him.  Second, I've worked in the Vancouver CFRC before - I'd be willing to bet better than 3:1 odds he didn't notify anyone of his decision to got to Kingston, much less "to be closer to Trenton for ASC" (paraphrasing there).  I've heard of some weird shyte in my day, but that takes the cake - not sure if something was lost in translation between him and the reporter or what, but something smells funky.  Third, aircrew stuff takes more time than many other occupations simply because of ASC set up, medical reviews prior to being sent there, etc ad nauseum. 

Yes the system sucks, but when you have a bazillion people applying for a finite number of jobs, things don't happen as fast as people like.  Our society today expects everything to happen when they want it to.  They want things now, whether or not they should have it  Frig, my current civilian job didn't have me getting an interview until 2 months after the job posting expired - I was applying to another place when they interviewed me, and even then had to wait almost a month before they offered me the job.

MeinBob, the Reserve Recruiting side of things is pretty messed up - it should be go to the CFRC, say I want to try for whatever jobs there are in the area that I'm interested in, and get processed like any other applicant.  At certain times of the year, the process should be expedited or have things planned so that Reserve Recruiting is front loaded in winter for summer BMQ's, sort of like ROTP stuff - if it's handled by the unit, things can get FUBAR'ed honestly, expecially with the complexity of how things are done now.  I joined the PRes in '86 - saw the unit recruiter, processed the paperwork and had the medical done and was getting my kit for basic within 3 weeks...in  '88 when I joined the Reg Force, I did my testing and interviews in Feb, was told was an 18 month wait for my trade, got an offer in Apr and was in Cornwallis in Aug.  There were more people in the Forces then, those CFRC's were held much more accountable for their actions or inactions then, and we had less competition for jobs than there are now.

In this guy's case, I'd have to say that yes, there is a problem in the Recruiting system...however, a lot doesn't jibe with me, so I suspect there is a lot more going on than what is being told.  There are three sides to every story - his, her's and what really happened.  The unfortunate thing is this guy might in fact end up with a ministerial inquiry because it hit the papers, whether he actually deserves it or not.

MM