CF member as a single parent-on course, deployed ect... [MERGED]

[Strike]

Springroll -- You know I've come to your defence in the past but I have a hard time in this subject.

I've just finished a 9 month course that is akin to a year in university (okay, a little longer, but the workload is comparable).  There were people on my course who were located within the same area so were not on TD.  They went to school, came home, had to take care of their families and then had to deal with homework and study.  They had a very hard go of it, even with a spouse who could help out.

Going UTPNCM might be easier on the kids because you are physically present, but it will be several times harder on you.  There are only so many hours in the day and you will be expected to do this for 3 to 4 years and then do training in the summer to top it off -- that time of year when your kids are also off school.

I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it's quite a bit harder than you may realize.

 

[Springroll]

Going UTPNCM might be easier on the kids because you are physically present, but it will be several times harder on you.  There are only so many hours in the day and you will be expected to do this for 3 to 4 years and then do training in the summer to top it off -- that time of year when your kids are also off school.

I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it's quite a bit harder than you may realize.

Thank you for your input here Strike, I really appreciate it.
After reading your post and speaking to a retired friend of mine that went UTPNCM, I have decided I am going to give it a couple more years before I persue it. With my youngest being 10 right now, I think if I were to wait til he was about 13, I would have less stress and more opportunity to be able to successfully complete my studies. He has mentioned that he was only able to do it because he had a wife at home to take care of the kids, otherwise he doesn't know how he would have completed it.

Thank you, Ballz for your correct assessment of what I have written in this thread. I was married to a CF member when I joined, and like I said before, due to circumstances beyond my control, I am now divorced.
Kat Stevens, obviously I knew I had kids when I joined...they were 5, 9 and 12 at the time. It is all in this thread if the time was taken to read back a few years.

While there will be many single parents in the CF (for many reasons), it is unrealistic to expect that, over the long run, they will get to consistently wave the "I'm a single parent, you can't deploy me" card. 

Just as an FYI, not all of us single parents "wave the I'm a single parent flag, you can't deploy me card. I have never once turned down the opportunity to deploy. Service was, and is, to my country when she needs me.

(((edited for spelling)))

 

[spyder]

I would just like to thank everyone for their input about this topic. It has cleared up many questions and concerns that I have about joining the CF and being a single parent.
Thank you!! 

 

[Elfy]

I am a single father, and as such I have always simply assumed that a roll in the military would be unsuitable for me. I understand that there is much that is done for couples, but I'm curious how that applies to a single parent. Are tours required for all positions? How long do they last? Is there any base which is both considered a tour, but also so far removed from combat that it is safe for children? On that note, are there soldiers stationed at Canadian Embassies?

Understandably there are rolls which can be filled that are relatively removed from the battlefield, but even a supportive roll would still require my children to be without a parent for the duration of a tour. It is that separation that I'm curious about, and in what ways might it be removed. As of yet, I have not contacted a recruiter since I'm still in the highly skeptical faze.

 

[brihard]

I'm a soldier, and an army brat with parents who ended up splitting. I can speak to this from a few angles.

"Are tours required for all positions?"

- I cannot, offhand, think of any trade that might not conceivably be deployed overseas on operation, be it on land, on ship, or as part of an air detachment. Tours will not generally be predictable in the long term sense. They may be on extremely short notice.

"How long do they last?"

- Unaccompanied deployments may last Anything from a few days or weeks to a year.

"Is there any base which is both considered a tour, but also so far removed from combat that it is safe for children?" Not int he way you're thinking of the terms. There are overseas postings that are not 'tours', but nor are they deployment son operations. It would be foolhardy to expect not to be operationally deployed at some point.

"On that note, are there soldiers stationed at Canadian Embassies?"

- In short, yes, in limited numbers. Not a factor in the careers of most soldiers.

"derstandably there are rolls which can be filled that are relatively removed from the battlefield, but even a supportive roll would still require my children to be without a parent for the duration of a tour."

- Correct.

"It is that separation that I'm curious about, and in what ways might it be removed."

- It cannot in all cases be removed.



Other things to consider at the many months you'll spend away on basic training, confined to living in barracks with your course. Then there's the time spent on training exercises in other parts of the country or the world where you'll be incommunicado. Dutt can strike hard and fast with little warning that could take you away from family.

Some people still pull off the single parent thing in the military, but I can't imagine how. I remember my dad being gone six months here, a year there, two months here again. Without another family member co-located - either a parent or someone willing to fill in - it would be very challenging, and frankly not fair to the child. Sorry for the discouraging answer, but I wanted to lay it out for you honestly.

That said, you might potentially be able to serve in the reserves if you still have an interest. You'd still be needing to find a caretaker for basic training (generally a few weekends a month for 4 or 5 months, and a couple full months the subsequent summer) but after that service is on a very part time basis where at worst you're gone for a weekend if you're content not to progress your career for some years.

 

[fraserdw]

I spent 7 years as a single parent, fortunately as a HQ slug, so my experience was some what easy.  I would never attempt to be a single parent in a unit.  You need a good stable extended family close by to make it as a single parent in the army and at a lower rank.

 

[aesop081]

I spent 7 years as a single parent, fortunately as a HQ slug, so my experience was some what easy.  I would never attempt to be a single parent in a unit.  You need a good stable extended family close by to make it as a single parent in the army and at a lower rank.

I made single parenting work in a high-tempo unit. It's not easy but very much depends on your personal situation. I was lucky that i had great freinds that would look after both my daughters and some family only a few hours away that could step in as required. No-notice deployments were always a problem but i somehow always made it work. I was lucky that my girls were old enough and mature enough to handle themselves if i had to divert to another airfield for the night when i was flying from home base.

 

[Wookilar]

I understand that there is much that is done for couples...

Brihard's and Aviator's posts are both good and give you some idea of what to expect and what is required.

I have had a few single parents work with me/for me over the years. It is never easy, some are not able to handle it for long given the tempo we sometimes have in field units, but others can and do make it work and have had long successful careers.

Just want to clear up something though, re: the quote from you above.

Not sure what you "understand" but my spouse is a stay-at-home mom and she would spit venom at anyone that suggested the CF has ever done anything for her or us as a couple/family. Hell my first tour I had less than 2 weeks notice lol.

Whether you are single/married should have no bearing on how the CF treats you. If you have good bosses (what I consider good anyway), no one gets treated differently. I have been in units, and on tours, where married pers were given preferential treatment wrt trips home, Christmas duties and work after-hours (I have also seen single members given priority for things like Christmas leave/flights). It's not supposed to happen and, in my experience, has always resulted in bad blood and had a negative effect on morale for the whole unit.

Of course, there are always exceptions that will be determined on a case-by-case basis on any kind of special or unordinary treatment. We are not a heartless anti-family (or anti-single) organization. Our job is to promote the welfare of our people, doesn't matter on family situation.

The CF comes first, which can be a hard pill to swallow for (most) families, at least some of the time. If you plan accordingly, it can work out.

Wook

 

[Elfy]

Other things to consider at the many months you'll spend away on basic training, confined to living in barracks with your course. Then there's the time spent on training exercises in other parts of the country or the world where you'll be incommunicado. Dutt can strike hard and fast with little warning that could take you away from family.

Some people still pull off the single parent thing in the military, but I can't imagine how. I remember my dad being gone six months here, a year there, two months here again. Without another family member co-located - either a parent or someone willing to fill in - it would be very challenging, and frankly not fair to the child. Sorry for the discouraging answer, but I wanted to lay it out for you honestly.

Thank you for you response. I was hoping for an in depth and blunt answer, which is also why I have yet to question a recruiter. Nervous that their response would be "apply now, and we'll figure out the details later".

Is "dutt" an acronym? Or was it a keystroke error and intended to be duty.

My main point of apprehension is tour length. Not in the sense of planning for the care as the length can change at any time, but to the impact on my children. If the tours were weeks, then it can be dealt with. If the tours are months, then my kids at their present ages would have issues with it. Of course this is all predicting the future which is rather difficult. Either way, thank you for your post as it has given me some points to consider.

I spent 7 years as a single parent, fortunately as a HQ slug, so my experience was some what easy.  I would never attempt to be a single parent in a unit.  You need a good stable extended family close by to make it as a single parent in the army and at a lower rank.

I have family in the Edmonton area, though I'd prefer not to be dependent on that network. It would limit the bases I could be stationed at, and therefore limit the positions I could apply for. As for the slug... Well, I am posting questions to an online forum as opposed to physically asking them at a recruiting station so I likely would fit right in with fellow slugs.

I made single parenting work in a high-tempo unit. It's not easy but very much depends on your personal situation. I was lucky that i had great freinds that would look after both my daughters and some family only a few hours away that could step in as required. No-notice deployments were always a problem but i somehow always made it work. I was lucky that my girls were old enough and mature enough to handle themselves if i had to divert to another airfield for the night when i was flying from home base.

How long were your tours typically? Also, were your daughters children/pre-teen/teen?

Just want to clear up something though, re: the quote from you above.

Not sure what you "understand" but my spouse is a stay-at-home mom and she would spit venom at anyone that suggested the CF has ever done anything for her or us as a couple/family. Hell my first tour I had less than 2 weeks notice lol.

My apologies to your spouse, I should not have used the word "much" since I was only able to think of a single example. Which is of alternating tours when both parents are serving, so that at least one parent is able to remain with the children. From the perspective of a couple, this is nothing. I am not a couple, so I took it from the perspective of my children, and from that perspective a single parent is much better then no parent.

---

I suppose that many are questioning why a single parent would consider joining the military. Well, there is no ideal career for a single parent, and so I'm looking into careers that I'm interested in. Might as well settle for a less then ideal career doing what I want, rather then a less then ideal career which holds no interest for me. No matter what I choose, there will be difficulties.

 

[brihard]

My deployment to Afghanistan was six months to the day. That's a mercifully short one by most reckonings. Assume that periodically you will deploy for as long or longer.

 

[ttlbmg]

I am not sure for smaller bases, but I know that the MFRCs on larger bases to offer support programs for children that have a parent deployed. There are after school programs available at some MFRCs specifically designed for children with a deployed parent, and I do believe that there are counselling services available to children and families (whatever your family is represented by, whether it be grandparents, friends, extended family, etc.) I have also found that with my spouse's deployments that one of the biggest support systems has been his coworkers that were not overseas with him, and other military spouses with deployed spouses. The friendships he has developed have been an amazing support system for us, whether it be something as simple as extra help shovelling a driveway or getting the car repaired, to having someone else for my kids to hang out with. If you get the right group of people, they make the time much easier.

It depends on the age of your kids though, as well. Our kids are younger, so explaining makes it harder, but they have adjusted easily to dad being gone when he has to be gone. Although, I know folks with much older kids, that understand when and why dad is gone, but are well adjusted as well. It all depends on so many things. If your kids are old enough, try discussing this issue with them. Every kid will react in a different way. It would be up to your and their judgment as to whether or not you think that they could endure separation and deal with everything in a healthy way. Good luck on your decisions though. Tough ones for sure!

 

[captloadie]

I think that we need to be realistic with the OP.  Does anyone here know of someone who joined as a single parent, with younger children? Very few people who are single parents before they join the military could make it work. As well, you wouldn't be limited to what bases and positions you could go to. You would be going, and have to figure out how to make it work.

If people here are honest, they can all think of an example of the single parent who they bitch about because it seems they get all the breaks, or are hidden away from tours and taskings etc. It is often even unconscously done by supervisors. Now, before CA chews me a new one, I am in no way saying the majority of single parents aren't pulling their weight, just that we can all think of some who aren't. 

 

[aesop081]

Now, before CA chews me a new one,

Quite to the contrary. I agree with you. I have managed to make it work for several years and will make it work once again starting this APS. It is hard but, for some, it can work.

 

[PMedMoe]

When I rejoined in '95, one of the girls on my course was a single parent.  When we got posted to the field unit, I found that some of the married couples got more breaks than she did.  She never complained once.  I guess it's up to the individual not to be a "burden" on their unit.

 

[Pusser]

I think the bottom line is that you need to have a plan for your children when you are unable to make it home at the end of the day because that's the reality of life in the CF.  Yes there are 8-4/M-F jobs in the CF, but there are also many that require overnights and weekends.  Even the mundane 8-4/M-F jobs may require trips out of town and/or overnight duty watches.  As for deployments, a good working figure for you use is six months as most will be close to that.

 

[jrst]

I'm not quite in the same boat as you- I'm divorced, and my ex and I share time with our 3 year old daughter, so at least I know that when (if) I get in and have to go on training, he is able to step up and look after her.  That being said, she is the reason I am only applying to the Reserves.  I was more concerned about getting posted to the other side of the country from her.  Obviously they could try to accommodate me, but anything can happen.  Even if my ex were willing to follow me around the country, I think it would be rough on her to be uprooted every few years when I get a new posting.  When she's older, though, and can travel on her own so it wouldn't be as big of a deal if I were posted further away, I am considering that I might want to transfer to the Regular Forces at that time.
Just a thought.

 

[Khud83]

Hi Everyone,

I am looking for some honest advice on and off the books.

I am a single mom of two young kids, 4 and 5. The father is involved to a certain extent. Summer visits, holidays etc...however I am seriously considering and I really do want to apply to the naval reserves. I would like to apply for the position of military officer as I already have a degree in criminology.

I am mostly interested in being a full time reservists. Possibly even becoming regular force at a later date.  Can any one please explain to me how much time I can expect to be away fr my kids if I am a full time reservist as a military police officer.  I read  on the website that training is with the home unit? Does this mean all training except basic training??? What about officer training?

Also, once I apply, how long until my testing, as I am out of shape and need to work on that before I am tested or begin basic training.

Any other general advice for single mothers would be appreciated!
I really want to do this but being a good officer is important to me, so is being a good mom. Can I be both?!??

 

[mariomike]

Any other general advice for single mothers would be appreciated!

Single Parenting in the CF 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/50191.0

CT to Regs and being a single mom 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/86356.0/nowap.html

Single Parents in the Military 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/50433.0/nowap.html

Single Parenthood 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/105007.0/nowap.html

Edit to add.

"THE MILITARY - YOUR FAMILY RESPONSIBILITIES - IMPORTANT"
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30772.0/nowap.html

"THE MILITARY AND YOUR FAMILY RESPONSIBILITIES - UPDATED FOR 2007"
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/66468.0.html

Family Care Plan
Family Care Assistance
Emergency Child Care Service
Emergency Respite Child Care Service
http://www.familyforce.ca/sites/Trenton/EN/Parents%20and%20Caregivers/Documents/FamilyCarePlan.pdf

 

[MikeL]

I am mostly interested in being a full time reservists.

Don't expect too much full time employment outside of courses as a new unqualified Reservist. Once you are qualified in your trade, the opportunity for full time employment may be available.  If you want to be full time the entire time you are in the Military, go Regular Force IMO.

I'd recommend you go visit/call your local Navy unit and see what trades they have available.  Here is a list of trades available in the Navy Reserve - I do not see MP or MPO being a option in the Navy Reserve.
http://www.navy.forces.gc.ca/navres/jobsAvailable_emploisDisponibles/partTime_tempsPartiel/overview_survol-eng.asp

Can any one please explain to me how much time I can expect to be away fr my kids if I am a full time reservist as a military police officer.

Speak with the Reserve unit you are interesting in joining, they will explain the various course lengths, and any unit training.  If you wish to be a MP/MPO speak with the local Army Reserve MP unit(if there is one in your area).

Also, once I apply, how long until my testing, as I am out of shape and need to work on that before I am tested or begin basic training.

Perhaps you should get in shape first before applying.  The application process varies from person to person, some can get in quickly, others may wait longer for it too happen.

 

[kratz]

You should aim to be in shape before applying. Fitness is part of the UoS, this standard applies to all RegF and PRes members.

NavRes does not have military police as an MOC. If this is the trade you want, then you will have to apply to a local army unit.

My suggestion is to read through the various threads posted on the site here. Some of the comments may be older, but often the advice is sound. Once you have read the comments, asking an informed question will garner more precise answers.


You will not have much opportunity to for full-time employment (on course or employment) with NavRes until you have completed your initial training. You will be asked to fill out a form (AVREP: Availability Report) that will inform your Career Manager what weeks  / months you are available for full-time courses or work. This allows you time to plan for your family to be looked after and still meets the needs of the RCN.
While there is training at the local NRDs (Naval Reserve Divisions), the formal courses are normally full-time on one of the coasts (NS or BC), in Quebec City (NRHQ) or CFB Borden, ON (support trades). Since the majority of reservists are in school, most full-time courses are offered on the school year schedule. So you might be away from your children for up to 2.5 months, depending on the training required.

The Naval Reserve has a full-time operational role, so there are many full-time positions available for trained personnel. Once you agree and sign the "contract" for your full-time position, you 'can be' tasked away at a moment's notice. This is why you will need to submit a Family Care Plan to you unit. This document shows your unit you have a plan in place that will ensure your children are taken care of if you are called out right away. There are examples where that has happend to reservists in Canada over the past 20 years.

As you read through the site, you will see in the reserves, many members hold degrees. I know many who have Masters Degrees who are NCMs instead of choosing to become an Officer. This is a personal choice and something that you should be aware of. Knowing this could open up options and opportunities for you that you may not have considered.

Exempt Basic training is offered to those who have previous military experience or equivalent knowledge. For the majority of people of the street, this is not an option.