I'm following a discussion on an author's forum (Tom Kratman) about the available forces in Britain at about the time of Dunkirk. The disposition of Canadian and Newfoundland units has come up, as they would appear to be available to react to a (forecast and prepared for) German invasion near Kent.
What did McNaughton have to work with in late May? What transport and artillery was available to him?
The discussion is as follows:
[quote author=tkratman]They're generally around Aldershot on 26 May. On that date, their commander, McNaughton, suggests forming nine battalion battle groups from his division, and basing them generally around Oxford, about 40 miles west of London's western outskirts. Instead, the order is given on 27 May to move to Northampton, vic. Kettering, which is about 60 miles north of London. That order will be obviated by a German landing on 26-27 May. What's interesting, though, is that the move was done by hired civilian lorrries and still took four days. What's also interesting is that, to the extent the Canadian advanced parties are reconning anything, and they likely are, per their orders they're reconning the eastern coast above the Humber. They would, therefore, for both the reasons given, be going into the lodgment area somewhat fragmented, somewhat slow, and somewhat blind. How steady and reliable civilian lorry drivers would be when moving toward a combat zone is somewhat questionable, and both Macksey and Collier seem to doubt they would be very of either.[/quote]
[quote author=tkratman]It further appears that 1st Canadian Brigade, at least, is fully equipped for artillery. At least by 14 June they have all 24 pieces. I think it likely the rest of the division is, as well, and probably by the projected S Day (Since Brit production, in May, alone, is unlikely to account for even 1st Brigade having all its guns).
Note further that 57th Royal Heavy Artillery, which is composed of Newfies, is apparently equiped with 7.2 inchers and is at Royal Tunbridge Wells.[/quote]
[quote author=sturmvogel]Tom,
That website on the Newfie artillery I posted says 9.2s and not until 5 June. The impression is that they don't have any guns until then as they're still forming. Both 57 and 58th Heavy Regiments are in Sussex somewhere according to the website, playing at infantry until they get their guns.
The Canadians have 72x 18/25 pdrs during this period, not 25 pdrs, IIRC. [/quote]
[quote author=Paul]Re: Lorry Drivers,
They would most likely be past call-up age [40-55] and given the commitment of manpower resources by the Brits during WWI they as a group are likely to have seen more combat than the Canadians. I doubt that a few Huns are going to be a bother.
-Doc[/quote]
[quote author=Tom Monaghan]It appears McNaughton was not a fire-eater so how fast they would have pushed on into combat without explicit orders is questionable.[/quote]
What did McNaughton have to work with in late May? What transport and artillery was available to him?
The discussion is as follows:
[quote author=tkratman]They're generally around Aldershot on 26 May. On that date, their commander, McNaughton, suggests forming nine battalion battle groups from his division, and basing them generally around Oxford, about 40 miles west of London's western outskirts. Instead, the order is given on 27 May to move to Northampton, vic. Kettering, which is about 60 miles north of London. That order will be obviated by a German landing on 26-27 May. What's interesting, though, is that the move was done by hired civilian lorrries and still took four days. What's also interesting is that, to the extent the Canadian advanced parties are reconning anything, and they likely are, per their orders they're reconning the eastern coast above the Humber. They would, therefore, for both the reasons given, be going into the lodgment area somewhat fragmented, somewhat slow, and somewhat blind. How steady and reliable civilian lorry drivers would be when moving toward a combat zone is somewhat questionable, and both Macksey and Collier seem to doubt they would be very of either.[/quote]
[quote author=tkratman]It further appears that 1st Canadian Brigade, at least, is fully equipped for artillery. At least by 14 June they have all 24 pieces. I think it likely the rest of the division is, as well, and probably by the projected S Day (Since Brit production, in May, alone, is unlikely to account for even 1st Brigade having all its guns).
Note further that 57th Royal Heavy Artillery, which is composed of Newfies, is apparently equiped with 7.2 inchers and is at Royal Tunbridge Wells.[/quote]
[quote author=sturmvogel]Tom,
That website on the Newfie artillery I posted says 9.2s and not until 5 June. The impression is that they don't have any guns until then as they're still forming. Both 57 and 58th Heavy Regiments are in Sussex somewhere according to the website, playing at infantry until they get their guns.
The Canadians have 72x 18/25 pdrs during this period, not 25 pdrs, IIRC. [/quote]
[quote author=Paul]Re: Lorry Drivers,
They would most likely be past call-up age [40-55] and given the commitment of manpower resources by the Brits during WWI they as a group are likely to have seen more combat than the Canadians. I doubt that a few Huns are going to be a bother.
-Doc[/quote]
[quote author=Tom Monaghan]It appears McNaughton was not a fire-eater so how fast they would have pushed on into combat without explicit orders is questionable.[/quote]