Cenotaph/Memorial Vandalism/Solutions-Laws (merged)
- Thread starter Cloud Cover
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 21,821
- Points
- 1,090
UIC = old school. new school = Department ID (DeptID in HRMS-speak).
A UIC or DeptID does not make an entity a unit. A signed MOO does. The NDA defines what a "unit" is - anything else is something else, but not a unit unless it's got the Minister's seal of approval.
A UIC or DeptID does not make an entity a unit. A signed MOO does. The NDA defines what a "unit" is - anything else is something else, but not a unit unless it's got the Minister's seal of approval.
I am a bit late getting in here with a comment. But I was filled with pride the day before Canada Day when the GGFG mounted teh Guard of Honour at the Cenotaph. It is an embarassment that it took almost 70 years but....I was the fellow who tried to get some action a year ago before Canada Day 2006. The previous year i had seen people sitting on the Tomb and I and a few others took it upon ourselves to tell people what the Tomb represents. i sent out 11 e-mails to various Politicios and administrative suits to no avail, in mid June 2006 I again sent out e-mails with my concerns.
I had three proposals, a security presence to keep the drunks at bay, a cordon to help in this and an information set up of some sort to inform people what the Cenotaph and the Tomb represent...sad as it seems many are not awares...
Last year my now famous pictures of the three pissoires...made international headlines. i received e-mail and calls from the US , Australia and the Netherlands...all expressing shock at the incident. A few former Army buddies also contacted me offering support...Sadly not one member of the present CF or my former branch the Dental Corps, offered any support....too busy working on careers i suppose
.
The past year i have been active on the phone and the net trying to interest the politicians and Ottawa administrators , in setting up a security system worthy of teh Cenotaph. One call to the minstry of Heritage resulted in my finding out that the assigment had been given to a sumemr student...the Ministry of Veterans' Affairs told me that if I were to set up an information booth on my own I would be fined and it would be torn down...and those were the "positive " responses...it was a game of Pass the buck for a year.
Ten days before Canada Day someone from Pubic Works called to tell me that they were hiring "security" for Canada Day...I replied somewhat sardonically , "Oh like a used car lot ?" ...silence....I added "If you do not have a proper military and Police presence for Canada Day it will be a slap in the face of all Canadians.
Apparently two days before Canada Day teh Governor generals' Foot Guard were assigned the duty of Honour Guard...it has been an immense success. it is a tourist attraction and a source of information.
there are a few suggestions i could make but no one would listen...an information booth is a must, people do not know what the site it. On occasion I have ventured by, one embarassing moment was talking to some British tourists, they were very impressed with the Guard of Honour and asked how long it had been a part of the Cenotaph . I had to say rather shamedly , "Two days..."
On Canada night next year the police will probably block off Wllington street to keep the drunks out, and i suggest more cordons...
An Autralian friend read about it in a local paper and asked if i had been given the keys to the city...i don;t expect anything from this but a thank you from politiicans has not been fothcoming. Myown Ottawa South MP and MPP the McGuinty brothers have been silent, I called the mayor several times in June trying to get something going and again no response...One MP Royal Gallipeau came to my dental office and actually gave me a hug...man I was really appreciative...my dad was a vet ( AFC) an uncle was a POQW another wounded....these are the guys i did it for...but the politicos could have shown a bit of class and acted on this...it was a slam dunk.
Colour me cynical...but I now feel they work for themselves first and that 5 year pension,. then the party..and they dare not vote against the party..then if there is time maybe the constituents..
Mike
www.drmichaelpilon.com
I had three proposals, a security presence to keep the drunks at bay, a cordon to help in this and an information set up of some sort to inform people what the Cenotaph and the Tomb represent...sad as it seems many are not awares...
Last year my now famous pictures of the three pissoires...made international headlines. i received e-mail and calls from the US , Australia and the Netherlands...all expressing shock at the incident. A few former Army buddies also contacted me offering support...Sadly not one member of the present CF or my former branch the Dental Corps, offered any support....too busy working on careers i suppose
.The past year i have been active on the phone and the net trying to interest the politicians and Ottawa administrators , in setting up a security system worthy of teh Cenotaph. One call to the minstry of Heritage resulted in my finding out that the assigment had been given to a sumemr student...the Ministry of Veterans' Affairs told me that if I were to set up an information booth on my own I would be fined and it would be torn down...and those were the "positive " responses...it was a game of Pass the buck for a year.
Ten days before Canada Day someone from Pubic Works called to tell me that they were hiring "security" for Canada Day...I replied somewhat sardonically , "Oh like a used car lot ?" ...silence....I added "If you do not have a proper military and Police presence for Canada Day it will be a slap in the face of all Canadians.
Apparently two days before Canada Day teh Governor generals' Foot Guard were assigned the duty of Honour Guard...it has been an immense success. it is a tourist attraction and a source of information.
there are a few suggestions i could make but no one would listen...an information booth is a must, people do not know what the site it. On occasion I have ventured by, one embarassing moment was talking to some British tourists, they were very impressed with the Guard of Honour and asked how long it had been a part of the Cenotaph . I had to say rather shamedly , "Two days..."
On Canada night next year the police will probably block off Wllington street to keep the drunks out, and i suggest more cordons...
An Autralian friend read about it in a local paper and asked if i had been given the keys to the city...i don;t expect anything from this but a thank you from politiicans has not been fothcoming. Myown Ottawa South MP and MPP the McGuinty brothers have been silent, I called the mayor several times in June trying to get something going and again no response...One MP Royal Gallipeau came to my dental office and actually gave me a hug...man I was really appreciative...my dad was a vet ( AFC) an uncle was a POQW another wounded....these are the guys i did it for...but the politicos could have shown a bit of class and acted on this...it was a slam dunk.
Colour me cynical...but I now feel they work for themselves first and that 5 year pension,. then the party..and they dare not vote against the party..then if there is time maybe the constituents..
Mike
www.drmichaelpilon.com
am a bit late getting in here with a comment. But I was filled with pride the day before Canada Day when the GGFG mounted teh Guard of Honour at the Cenotaph. It is an embarassment that it took almost 70 years but....I was the fellow who tried to get some action a year ago before Canada Day 2006. The previous year i had seen people sitting on the Tomb and I and a few others took it upon ourselves to tell people what the Tomb represents. i sent out 11 e-mails to various Politicios and administrative suits to no avail, in mid June 2006 I again sent out e-mails with my concerns.
I had three proposals, a security presence to keep the drunks at bay, a cordon to help in this and an information set up of some sort to inform people what the Cenotaph and the Tomb represent...sad as it seems many are not awares...
Last year my now famous pictures of the three pissoires...made international headlines. i received e-mail and calls from the US , Australia and the Netherlands...all expressing shock at the incident. A few former Army buddies also contacted me offering support...Sadly not one member of the present CF or my former branch the Dental Corps, offered any support....too busy working on careers i suppose .
The past year i have been active on the phone and the net trying to interest the politicians and Ottawa administrators , in setting up a security system worthy of teh Cenotaph. One call to the minstry of Heritage resulted in my finding out that the assigment had been given to a sumemr student...the Ministry of Veterans' Affairs told me that if I were to set up an information booth on my own I would be fined and it would be torn down...and those were the "positive " responses...it was a game of Pass the buck for a year.
Ten days before Canada Day someone from Pubic Works called to tell me that they were hiring "security" for Canada Day...I replied somewhat sardonically , "Oh like a used car lot ?" ...silence....I added "If you do not have a proper military and Police presence for Canada Day it will be a slap in the face of all Canadians.
Apparently two days before Canada Day teh Governor generals' Foot Guard were assigned the duty of Honour Guard...it has been an immense success. it is a tourist attraction and a source of information.
there are a few suggestions i could make but no one would listen...an information booth is a must, people do not know what the site it. On occasion I have ventured by, one embarassing moment was talking to some British tourists, they were very impressed with the Guard of Honour and asked how long it had been a part of the Cenotaph . I had to say rather shamedly , "Two days..."
On Canada night next year the police will probably block off Wllington street to keep the drunks out, and i suggest more cordons...
An Autralian friend read about it in a local paper and asked if i had been given the keys to the city...i don;t expect anything from this but a thank you from politiicans has not been fothcoming. Myown Ottawa South MP and MPP the McGuinty brothers have been silent, I called the mayor several times in June trying to get something going and again no response...One MP Royal Gallipeau came to my dental office and actually gave me a hug...man I was really appreciative...my dad was a vet ( AFC) an uncle was a POQW another wounded....these are the guys i did it for...but the politicos could have shown a bit of class and acted on this...it was a slam dunk.
Colour me cynical...but I now feel they work for themselves first and that 5 year pension,. then the party..and they dare not vote against the party..then if there is time maybe the constituents..
Mike
www.drmichaelpilon.com
I had three proposals, a security presence to keep the drunks at bay, a cordon to help in this and an information set up of some sort to inform people what the Cenotaph and the Tomb represent...sad as it seems many are not awares...
Last year my now famous pictures of the three pissoires...made international headlines. i received e-mail and calls from the US , Australia and the Netherlands...all expressing shock at the incident. A few former Army buddies also contacted me offering support...Sadly not one member of the present CF or my former branch the Dental Corps, offered any support....too busy working on careers i suppose .
The past year i have been active on the phone and the net trying to interest the politicians and Ottawa administrators , in setting up a security system worthy of teh Cenotaph. One call to the minstry of Heritage resulted in my finding out that the assigment had been given to a sumemr student...the Ministry of Veterans' Affairs told me that if I were to set up an information booth on my own I would be fined and it would be torn down...and those were the "positive " responses...it was a game of Pass the buck for a year.
Ten days before Canada Day someone from Pubic Works called to tell me that they were hiring "security" for Canada Day...I replied somewhat sardonically , "Oh like a used car lot ?" ...silence....I added "If you do not have a proper military and Police presence for Canada Day it will be a slap in the face of all Canadians.
Apparently two days before Canada Day teh Governor generals' Foot Guard were assigned the duty of Honour Guard...it has been an immense success. it is a tourist attraction and a source of information.
there are a few suggestions i could make but no one would listen...an information booth is a must, people do not know what the site it. On occasion I have ventured by, one embarassing moment was talking to some British tourists, they were very impressed with the Guard of Honour and asked how long it had been a part of the Cenotaph . I had to say rather shamedly , "Two days..."
On Canada night next year the police will probably block off Wllington street to keep the drunks out, and i suggest more cordons...
An Autralian friend read about it in a local paper and asked if i had been given the keys to the city...i don;t expect anything from this but a thank you from politiicans has not been fothcoming. Myown Ottawa South MP and MPP the McGuinty brothers have been silent, I called the mayor several times in June trying to get something going and again no response...One MP Royal Gallipeau came to my dental office and actually gave me a hug...man I was really appreciative...my dad was a vet ( AFC) an uncle was a POQW another wounded....these are the guys i did it for...but the politicos could have shown a bit of class and acted on this...it was a slam dunk.
Colour me cynical...but I now feel they work for themselves first and that 5 year pension,. then the party..and they dare not vote against the party..then if there is time maybe the constituents..
Mike
www.drmichaelpilon.com
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
Dr Mike said:
You did a fine job. My only suggestion is that the security soldiers who answer questions should be much more informed. The day I visited, a Spanish-speaking visitor asked (in somehwat fractured English) the security person when the Changing of the Guard occurred. His response was "Every hour on the hour." I realized that the gentleman and his group were actually looking for the Changing of the Guard ceremony on Parliament Hill, so I offered a brief clarification that therre were two ceremonies and the larger one was at 10:00, "over there" (pointing to the Hill). I also suggested he come back at 11:00 for the changing of the guard at the Memorial. Much nodding and smiles.
Perhaps I'll speak to my MP about this. He's a backbencher, but big on veterans stuff. It can't hurt. And perhaps if folks here did likewise... and talked to the media...
- Reaction score
- 2,527
- Points
- 1,260
I've been trying to get information from this link:
http://www.radioenergie.com/nouvelle.php?id=1370414
based on this Google Search summary:
"Un monument dédié aux Anciens combattants a été vandalisé à Lachine. Des graffitis à saveur indépendantiste ont été peints par-dessus les noms des soldats..."
but 1) the page doesn't have any obvious or (that I could find) buried information on this incident, and 2) I can't find any other references via French or English media - any assistance with either links or first-hand info much appreciated.
Edited to add found info from Montreal Gazette, shared with usual disclaimer:
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=da43b6e2-239c-4142-9a44-9904c61a64b1
Veterans angered by latest vandalism
'This is an insult'. 'Quebec Libre,' 'FLQ' painted on cenotaph
KATHERINE WILTON, The Gazette (Montreal), 2 Jan 08
Vandals spray-painted nationalist slogans on the cenotaph in Lachine during the weekend, angering local veterans as they were preparing to ring in the new year at the local Legion.
Gordon Biggs, chairman of Royal Canadian Legion Branch 85/90 in Lachine, said he was shocked to see the words "FLQ" and "Québec Libre" spray-painted on the memorial on Henri Dunant St. on Sunday. The blue paint covers many veterans' names inscribed on the cenotaph.
"This is an insult," Biggs said.
"I can understand kids doing graffiti, but this isn't graffiti. This is a disgrace."
He said the vandalism is all the more shocking because it was discovered Sunday, the day Canadian soldier Jonathan Dion was killed in Afghanistan, after his vehicle hit a roadside bomb.
"People have no respect,"
Biggs said. "We have veterans here and they take this kind of thing hard."
Olive Fell, 86, a Legion volunteer, said the vandalism put a damper on the New Year's Eve celebrations. "It is a shame people do this," Fell said as she prepared dinner for the aging veterans and their families. "They steal our wreaths as well."
Fell said she expected Lachine borough workers would remove the graffiti as soon as possible.
Last summer, someone tried to remove bronze plaques from the cenotaph. The attempted theft, probably done because the value of scrap metal is rising, damaged fittings on the plaques and they had to be replaced, Legion member Gary Benwell said.
No arrests have been made in the latest vandalism, Montreal police Constable Olivier Lapointe said.
kwilton@thegazette.canwest.com
http://www.radioenergie.com/nouvelle.php?id=1370414
based on this Google Search summary:
"Un monument dédié aux Anciens combattants a été vandalisé à Lachine. Des graffitis à saveur indépendantiste ont été peints par-dessus les noms des soldats..."
but 1) the page doesn't have any obvious or (that I could find) buried information on this incident, and 2) I can't find any other references via French or English media - any assistance with either links or first-hand info much appreciated.
Edited to add found info from Montreal Gazette, shared with usual disclaimer:
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=da43b6e2-239c-4142-9a44-9904c61a64b1
Veterans angered by latest vandalism
'This is an insult'. 'Quebec Libre,' 'FLQ' painted on cenotaph
KATHERINE WILTON, The Gazette (Montreal), 2 Jan 08
Vandals spray-painted nationalist slogans on the cenotaph in Lachine during the weekend, angering local veterans as they were preparing to ring in the new year at the local Legion.
Gordon Biggs, chairman of Royal Canadian Legion Branch 85/90 in Lachine, said he was shocked to see the words "FLQ" and "Québec Libre" spray-painted on the memorial on Henri Dunant St. on Sunday. The blue paint covers many veterans' names inscribed on the cenotaph.
"This is an insult," Biggs said.
"I can understand kids doing graffiti, but this isn't graffiti. This is a disgrace."
He said the vandalism is all the more shocking because it was discovered Sunday, the day Canadian soldier Jonathan Dion was killed in Afghanistan, after his vehicle hit a roadside bomb.
"People have no respect,"
Biggs said. "We have veterans here and they take this kind of thing hard."
Olive Fell, 86, a Legion volunteer, said the vandalism put a damper on the New Year's Eve celebrations. "It is a shame people do this," Fell said as she prepared dinner for the aging veterans and their families. "They steal our wreaths as well."
Fell said she expected Lachine borough workers would remove the graffiti as soon as possible.
Last summer, someone tried to remove bronze plaques from the cenotaph. The attempted theft, probably done because the value of scrap metal is rising, damaged fittings on the plaques and they had to be replaced, Legion member Gary Benwell said.
No arrests have been made in the latest vandalism, Montreal police Constable Olivier Lapointe said.
kwilton@thegazette.canwest.com
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Unfortunately, they never catch them. Someone spray painted a war memorial outside a church in Osborne Village, Winnipeg over 2 years ago, and they were never caught. It was an awful mess, and, surprisingly for the type of church and community the Village is, everyone was upset about it.
Someone keeps drawing on a panel by the back door of our building - 2 or 3 times a week all summer - I tried all summer to catch them at it but failed. If its fresh, WD40 takes it off, and I spent a lot of time scrubbing. Our building is tagged, front and back - its old and I can't get it off, but maybe it protects us from a rival gang.
I wish these vandals would find something else to do, but perhaps they're also the ones who damage grave markers in cemeteries, too, and that's the alternative. They have no respect for anyone - let alone self-respect.
Someone keeps drawing on a panel by the back door of our building - 2 or 3 times a week all summer - I tried all summer to catch them at it but failed. If its fresh, WD40 takes it off, and I spent a lot of time scrubbing. Our building is tagged, front and back - its old and I can't get it off, but maybe it protects us from a rival gang.
I wish these vandals would find something else to do, but perhaps they're also the ones who damage grave markers in cemeteries, too, and that's the alternative. They have no respect for anyone - let alone self-respect.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
Hawk... if your property is tagged 2 or 3 times a week, a concealed remote camera could resolve the problem in short order. It worked here.... His mother thought he was a little angel till my video clip showed him for what he was... Haven't seen the little monster's distinctive "tag" artwork in our area for a long time....
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
I might have to go to that if it continues once it warms up outside. Its about 7 feet from my kitchen window, so I thought I should be able to catch the jerk - no such luck. I'd love to grab his/her marker/spray can and graffiti him/her. What they draw is an eye, or an eye shape with 2 lines in it. It would look great in red or black on the forehead of the ass@1&%
Hawk
Hawk
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
In my professional opinion there is a special place in Hell for people who would desicrate this or any sacred monument. Shame on them. :rage:
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 110
Recce By Death said:
I would like to think that you are right, and that it is simply drunk idiots. Unfortunately for anyone that lives in Quebec and not in a vacuum, this separatist borderline terrorist element is still a problem that is almost completely ignored by the media. It is this entrenched mentality that many Quebecers have of the 'evil English' threat to their culture that allows such crap to be chalked up to a fringe bunch when it is not at all. As an Anglophone living in Montreal, I have seen countless hate graffiti, vandalism, and have on many occasions been discriminated against for being English. It is an every day reality! To say they are just drunk idiots diminishes the real problem that the media and government chooses to ignore.
The separatist slogans on a Federal monument isn't a coincident, it is a pretty obvious message.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
Steiner,
While I sympathize for the discrimination you claim to have experienced, I dissagree. Have done a good part of my career in Quebec & while some people still swing the FLQ slogans from time to time, pert much all the militantcy & radicalism that might have existed has faded away.
The FLQ is a dead duck .... and who the He!! cares?
Many francophones would tell you that the discrimination you have received in Quebec - they have received in turn elsewhere in our great land..... there are small minded people everywhere.
While I sympathize for the discrimination you claim to have experienced, I dissagree. Have done a good part of my career in Quebec & while some people still swing the FLQ slogans from time to time, pert much all the militantcy & radicalism that might have existed has faded away.
The FLQ is a dead duck .... and who the He!! cares?
Many francophones would tell you that the discrimination you have received in Quebec - they have received in turn elsewhere in our great land..... there are small minded people everywhere.
geo said:
One could reasonably argue that Bill 101 and the recent Reasonable Accomodations hearings would demonstrate that Quebec forcibly discriminates against languages and cultures other than Quebec Francophonie. If you've worked here and ever suffered through an OLF audit, you'll know what i mean.
The fact that it occurs in other provinces to Francophones doesn't mean it doesn't happen in Quebec. I've heard the argument you just made come out of many young quebecois mouths, and interestingly enough many of them have never even been outside the province or west of Montreal.
Coming back to the issue at hand - unfortunately it seems that for some youth/individuals, War Memorials are symbolic testimonials to the underlying government action of war rather than individual human sacrifice and honour. This is much like how the Army, the government, police, etc are all just an example of an oppressive government that does not support a Quebec libre. Warped, but still a world-view held by some.
Wrong? Yes. Going to change? I hope so. Realistic? Probably not.
- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
Meridian said:
Interestingly enough is quite right. It is truely interesting how much their attitudes change once they have left the province for vacation or work. Even more interesting is after some have paid a visit to France and faced discrimination there.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 110
The FLQ may be a dead duck but the terrorist element, Mouvement de Libération Nationale du Québec (MLNQ), is not. Google Raymond Villeneuve and you can see he is still very active and calling for physical violence against English Canadians and that "s shotgun would be a great method of killing". Little or nothing is done about this. If you or I did this, we would be up on hate charges so ******* quick our heads would spin.
Also, about 5 years ago, the city hall in a west island community (English) had separatist slogans and death threats painted on it's exterior and a small, half-assed explosive device was found. Similarly, a 'Second Cup', the cafe, used too many English words on its menu and was fire bombed. Hardly incidents to ignore! The media pays little attention to it, The police could care less, and the government completely ignores the problem, probably because of its ***-kissing tendencies when it comes to its preferential treatment of Quebec. Don't get me wrong, i am not slagging French Quebecers, I wouldn't live here if I didn't love their culture, I am talking about a few, and that few is pretty scary.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1067391204055_62800404/?hub=Canada
http://www.montrealmirror.com/ARCHIVES/1997/103097/cover.html
Also, about 5 years ago, the city hall in a west island community (English) had separatist slogans and death threats painted on it's exterior and a small, half-assed explosive device was found. Similarly, a 'Second Cup', the cafe, used too many English words on its menu and was fire bombed. Hardly incidents to ignore! The media pays little attention to it, The police could care less, and the government completely ignores the problem, probably because of its ***-kissing tendencies when it comes to its preferential treatment of Quebec. Don't get me wrong, i am not slagging French Quebecers, I wouldn't live here if I didn't love their culture, I am talking about a few, and that few is pretty scary.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1067391204055_62800404/?hub=Canada
http://www.montrealmirror.com/ARCHIVES/1997/103097/cover.html
