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CAR reborn?

R

Roko

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I‘ve heard a rumor that there has been a sugestion by some liberal in the parliment that the CAR should be brought back.. anyone else heard this, or is it completley unfounded?
 
The CF and in particular the Land Force are shrinking and even if we move back to 50000, units are bing rationlized (meaning pioneers going to engineers, mortors to the artillery etc). This is not a trend but a fact.

So answer the question yourself. There isn‘t the manpower to form any new units, period.
 
I havent heard much except it was brought up by the opposition and the response was no. I hope its true though.


- JH
 
yeah, I agree that in the current state of the CF, it‘s not likely to happen.. I was just wondering if it had been brought up..
 
Remember that this particular regiment would only consist of one battalion.

:cool: Yard Ape
 
Though static line military parachuting is near and dear to my heart, the armchair strategist in me still thinks an air assault thing would be most useful operationally. Complete lack of this type of doctrine in the CF coupled with no suitable helicopters in our arsenal aside, I think it is a good idea. The Brits have adopted it with much success.
 
This is very odd indeed. They want to increase the numbers to replace troops that are retiring, yet they‘re cutting down on existing manpower. I would like the morons making these decisions to wake up and stop tinkering with the way things are run. Increase the numbers by recruiting and retaining troops instead of contemplating shutting down three infantry battalions due to the lack of manpower.

-the patriot- :cdn:
 
I think what we all need to remember here is that Canada is not a big war machine, were a peace keeping nation. We don‘t need a million soldiers and state of the art equipment, we need a few excellently trained soldiers, that can get the job done with the stuff they have. Although I think it would be nice to have airborn capability I dont think we need a big airborn regiment.
 
SoF, the best Peacekeepers are good war fighters. Yes, Canada is not a war machine. However, smiles and good intentions alone cannot maintain peace when there are people determined to break it for thier own agendas (I suspect some in our government have even fooled themselves into beliving this is not true). It is not good enough for a force to be able defend itself until the Hercs can come to take everybody home for tea and medals. When local beligrents decide to push the peacekeepers around or resume activities against eachother, the peacekeeping force must be strong enough to impose the order it was sent to maintain.

This is not to say that there are not means of achieving objectives that are unique to peacekeeping. But sacrificing warfighting ability to persue those "smiles and good intentions" ways is a bad idea.
 
Our political landscape over the past thirty years or so and the fact that Canada has a small tax base has much more to do with our having a small and often obsolescent military than our national character.

Elite units have a larger role above and beyond the tactical. They are a visible example of the warrior spirit of a nation. Their reputation is one that stands head and shoulders above all others - they are the BEST. A degree of visibility (units like JTF2, Delta, SAS need to remain in the shadows for operational reasons obviously) serves another purpose. People often dream about being amongst the elite. Units like the US Army Rangers, the British Royal Marine Commandos, The British Paras, the French Foreign Legion‘s 2ieme Regiment Etranger Parachutiste (and arguable the entire legion itself) and many others all have a certain degree of visibility. A benefit is that there is a "trickle down effect". In most nations that rely on volunteers, you do not start out in elite units, you work your way up by working HARD. I remember when I was in Cadets meeting a good number of people who were very serioius about wanting to be Airborne... When the regiment disbanded they saw their dream go down the toilet. Naturally a lot of them started looking elsewhere, mostly in the civilian world.

Special units have had a place of pride throughout history. Due to our current political climate, ressurecting the CAR in name might not be feasiable, however the underlying spirit would be the same. I think it‘s time to open a new chapter in the history of the Canadian Armed Forces, one that is in accordance with our traditions.

Food for thought (maybe this should be it‘s own thread really?) ... Has the warrior spirit of Canada diminished so much that a visible elite unit might not be able to be reformed/created? Is it the lack of political will? The people? Money? Frankly, I‘m at a loss for any good reason...
 
The Canadian Airborne Regiment was an excellent unit that had its dirty underware displayed a bad time. The CAR as orgininally envisioned was an excellent unit, no substitute for a "true" special forces unit, but a necessary unit for the Canadian Army. The CAR was orginally designed to be similar to the US Army Rangers and not the UK SAS, UK "Paras", or US "Green Berets." To know more about the formation of CAR, read Significant Incident by David Bercuson a very well respected Canadian military historian and analyst. Orginally, the CAR was to be a commando unit, indeed the orginal name was to be the Canadian Commando Regiment. It was to be used for direct action missions of platoon, company, and battalion sized. The last being the least important. It was not to have an artillery battery, or a combat service support company, but simply to have two Commandos (large rifle company‘s treated as units and not sub-units), a Combat Support Commando, and a Headquarters Commando and Regiment Headquarters. This is actually almost identical to the current structure of the Royal Australian Army‘s 4th Battalion Royal Australian Regiment (Commando). The Australian‘s also have a reserve commando regiment and regual army special forces regiment {ASR (Australian)}. I think the Canadian Army should again create a CAR/Commando/Ranger like unit of battalion size, but ensure that it is battalion sized without all the supporting elements that old CAR had before it was downsized. Essentially I would argue that the new para-commando regiment have 3 Commando/rifle companies each with 3 rifle platoons, and a company combat support platoon and company headquarters. The battalion should have a combat support company with a pioneer, anti-tank, mortar, and reconnaissance platoons, and company headquarters. Finally the headquarters company battalion headquarters would support the unit, the same as any other infantry battalion. I would suggest that the JTF II be retained and expanded; possibly renamed the Canadian Special Air Service. Commando skills and special forces skills are different, and their roles and missions are quite different. The commando is a highly trained light infantry shock troop, whereas the special forces is designed primarily for Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition and Reconnaissance missions (ISTAR). Also the SF soldier tends to be dual hatted for counter terrrorist roles. The additon of a commando unit would go a long way to improving moral in the infantry, which is the heart and soul of the army. This is not a corps knock, just a statement of the importance in terms of numbers and not capabilities. Having a unit to strive for is important, but the capabilities of a commando unit would go along way to making the current combat incapable army combat capable. The latter comment is not a knock to the personal commitment and capabilities of Canadian soldiers, just the recognition of the lack of overall capability in the Army.
 
Wouldn‘t that be duplicity though? We already have the Joint Task Force 2, who fulfil the counter-terrorist function, as well as the ISTAR role, don‘t we?

I think what we could probably find more useful is a Pathfinder-type regiment, as the UK has, which could act in larger-unit support of JTF operations.

Believe this is the relationship the U.S. Army Rangers have to their Delta Force.
 
um, no, that is not the relationship.
Pathfinders are the eyes and ears of an airborne formation, they go in first, mark landing zones, do recce‘s, all sorts of special-forces-like stuff, but mostly in the recce role.

Rangers are direct action and break things, as well as providing muscle for special operations. They have their own recce elements
Delta does all sorts of dark and mysterious things. but are not normally considered the Ranger‘s recce force.

We need an elite infantry unit of some kind, that much is obvious.
 
To Portcullisguy:

I think you misunderstood my arguement. Their is is a major difference between special forces--SAS--and commando troops, US Army Rangers. I was advocating to expand in numbers and rename the JTF 2 as the Canadian Special Air Service, not create a second special forces unit. Secondly, I also argued that Canada should have a commando regiment along the lines of the US Army Ranger battalions in addtion to a dedicated special forces regiment. One new "commando" battalion and rename the JTF 2 the CSAS. I hope that clears it up for you.
 
Ahhhhhhh....we can dream. There Airborne went away and came back once before.
 
Something of a side note... In addition to the creation of a new commando type unit to add to our special operations capability, I think we should create or revamp an existing unit for a role similar to the USAF‘s 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (Airborne), the "Night Stalkers". I think this would be a great compliment to any new commando unit(s) and JTF2.
 
Ah to dream...discussion is great but what can we do to get the politicians to listen?
i am all for placing my name or whatever to help the cause to effect change, its time to do something. :cdn:
 
Do you guys think the Airborne Regiment will ever be brought back?

:cdn:
 
I doubt it, I think with our limited resources, it would make more sense to have a more multi-purpose unit like the US ARMY Rangers. Don‘t get me wrong, I‘d like to see it happen, but I just don‘t think it‘s going to... :rolleyes:
 
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