Canadians and distorted reality...

[ArmyRick]

I don't know if this is already been done, mods flog me if it is. My search on words consperacy turned up nothing.

Lately on CBC.ca web site, I have noticed alot of Canadians are very naive about what we really are doing/how we do business in Afghanistan or in general.

There have been several CF related stories lately and these are some common themes that pop up
1. The CF is in Afghanistan to fight a war for oil for Bush;
2. The CF is in Afghanistan to fight a war for the drug trade;
3. The CF would never investigate allegations agaisnt itself because it might look bad;
4. The CF is always involved in a cover up;
5. The CF is made up of poorly educated, young Canadians that have no where else to go or do;
6. They (these people posting remarks) demand that they know everything going and operational security is not transparent in a democratic society;
7. If the CF does investigate itself and charges no one, then the investigation is seriously flawed because we can not possibly discipline or control ourselves;
8. All of us in the CF are somehow nothing but props for both Harper and Bush/US policy; and
9. We must be committing war crimes because they happened in Viet Nam, therefore how could we resist?

With alot of these negative assumptions being made about the CF, it makes me wonder how I don't come in to work and see my boss wearing a patch over one eye and yelling "Yar maties, we be pirates!".

I mean, part of this is a rant and a vent about what people think we are doing in the CF. I guess they don't realize we have families, wives and husbands, children, moms and dads. We pay our taxes and bills like they do to. We don't get free beer. It breaks our heart to hear stories of inhuman violence. We understand the world is not a safe and wonderfull utopia like down town Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal.

I am not out to help defence companies make loads of money (or the oil industry) and I am not merely a government stoogie who does exactly what he is told.

It is too bad these people are the most biggotted, hatefull and prejudice people I can think of.

Anybody else want to chime in they're thoughts?

 

[PuckChaser]

The government (Liberal and Conservatives) didn't do a good job "selling" the mission to Canadians. All they heard was we're going to help the US because they got attacked. Its too late now, as most opinions are shaped, but if we started from Day 1, we might not be leaving under political pressure.

I wouldn't read CBC.ca's comments. That's where most of the left wing nutjobs hang out.

 

[OldSolduer]

The government (Liberal and Conservatives) didn't do a good job "selling" the mission to Canadians. All they heard was we're going to help the US because they got attacked. Its too late now, as most opinions are shaped, but if we started from Day 1, we might not be leaving under political pressure.

I wouldn't read CBC.ca's comments. That's where most of the left wing nutjobs hang out.

I concur. This should have been an easy sell: Canadian soldiers going to help the opressed and downtrodden, and may have to get a bit nasty to do so. I am sure, if it was properly packaged, the opinions wouold have been contrary.

 

[Newt]

1. Canadians want Canada to be thought of as a "big boy country". All the other big kids have scandals, therefore Canada must have scandals. Canadian media is happy to provide the hint of scandal in every document they "uncover" in access to information requests. If the CBC got a copy of CDS to do list and pick up dry cleaning was redacted they would happily imply that the redacted item was go kick puppies with Peter McKay. 

2. The CF has been removed from, or was never really part of, polite society. Soldiers, sailors, and airmen are out of the norm for most Canadians; we are out of sight and out of mind. When the public sees us in their communities they don't know what we're doing or how to interact with us. Joe Q. Public doesn't know the difference between loggies from the local ASU out for a ruckmarch and commandos on a covert recon [sic] patrol.

3. The impression that most Canadians have of the CF is based on myth. Example: the Avro Arrow was an amazing aircraft and if we had it the rest of the world would be in awe of our country and our towels would be fluffier. Canadians expect all of their soldiers, RCMP, police, etc. to be fluent in French, English, and Cree; to never draw our weapons in anger; to have rugged good looks; and our bowel movements to smell like fresh baked cookies. In short they want us all to be Fraser from Due South instead of the collection of flawed individuals we really are.

Edited for grammar and spelling.

 

[Haggis]

With alot of these negative assumptions being made about the CF, it makes me wonder how I don't come in to work and see my boss wearing a patch over one eye and yelling "Yar maties, we be pirates!".

That happens this Sunday.  ;D

 

[ArmyRick]

From what was posted above (not the pirate reference) you would almost think Canadians need a "Villian" (We need our saron, darth vadar, someone to hate) and of course we must have a hero too!

So from reading what these guys put we have our favorite villians (Bush and Harper who meet with Monty Burns and other rich villians and plot to control the world)
and then of course is our ever so noble hero types? Like Jack Layton the wise or Chretein the unshakable (both here to save Canadians from the evils of right wing thinking!)

How does that sound for summing up some rather simple minded thinking out there?

 

[Newt]

From what was posted above (not the pirate reference) you would almost think Canadians need a "Villian" (We need our saron, darth vadar, someone to hate) and of course we must have a hero too!

So from reading what these guys put we have our favorite villians (Bush and Harper who meet with Monty Burns and other rich villians and plot to control the world)
and then of course is our ever so noble hero types? Like Jack Layton the wise or Chretein the unshakable (both here to save Canadians from the evils of right wing thinking!)

How does that sound for summing up some rather simple minded thinking out there?

Canada doesn't have villains or enemies; we're a nation of respected Peacekeepers after all. Anyone who suggests that Canada might have an enemy, or has a body of people who think unkindly of us, obviously has a hidden agenda. For the PM to suggest that the Phantasians are our enemy implies that the PM is a shareholder/puppet/owner of a company that has mineral rights in Phantasia; we beat the Phantasians in a lacrosse game in '72, therefore they respect us and are our allies, therefore any report of their bombers on our borders is pure government propaganda.

 

[Edward Campbell]

1. Canadians want Canada to be thought of as a "big boy country". All the other big kids have scandals, therefore Canada must have scandals. Canadian media is happy to provide the hint of scandal in every document they "uncover" in access to information requests. If the CBC got a copy of CDS to do list and pick up dry cleaning was redacted they would happily imply that the redacted item was go kick puppies with Peter McKay. 

2. The CF has been removed from, or was never really part of, polite society. Soldiers, sailors, and airmen are out of the norm for most Canadians; we are out of sight and out of mind. When the public sees us in their communities they don't know what we're doing or how to interact with us. Joe Q. Public doesn't know the difference between loggies from the local ASU out for a ruckmarch and commandos on a covert recon [sic] patrol.

3. The impression that most Canadians have of the CF is based on myth. Example: the Avro Arrow was an amazing aircraft and if we had it the rest of the world would be in awe of our country and our towels would be fluffier. Canadians expect all of their soldiers, RCMP, police, etc. to be fluent in French, English, and Cree; to never draw our weapons in anger; to have rugged good looks; and our bowel movements to smell like fresh baked cookies. In short they want us all to be Fraser from Due South instead of the collection of flawed individuals we really are.

Edited for grammar and spelling.

We can no longer say +1 ... so Newt has pretty much nailed it. Despite all the red T-shirts and bumper stickers, Canadians' support for the CF, while it may be a mile wide, is, like their understanding, only an inch deep.

 

[PuckChaser]

We can no longer say +1 ... so Newt has pretty much nailed it. Despite all the red T-shirts and bumper stickers, Canadians' support for the CF, while it may be a mile wide, is, like their understanding, only an inch deep.

Support the Troops has become a catch-phrase unintentionally. People just throw it around now without either knowing what it means, or just having words not deeds. This is not the majority of people, but a strong minority that use it that way.

 

[a_majoor]

Unfortunately, I am doing an OP CONNECTION tasking now and most people seem to know the military through video games.

I am now allowing my sarcastic streak to come out (or maybe that's the real me  >); when some kid comes up and asks to pick up the "SAW" I direct them to the next table where the medic is. If they are unable to understand that reference, I point out the engineers in the tent outside also use saws to cut down trees and clear debris....

On a somewhat saner note, when people ask about my tour of Afghanistan, I point out facts like the 4000 micro-loans the KPRT handed out, the completion of ROUTE SUMMIT and the purchase of a garbage truck for the Mir Wais hospital in Kandahar City; things they were totally unaware of.

With that sort of knowledge base to work from, is it any wonder people have no idea who we are or what we do?

 

[IGA]

First let me say that I am 100% civilian. I don't even know anyone in the CF. I started reading this site to try and get more info on Afghanistan. But reading the comments of some of the posters on here has got me shaking my head. It seems a lot of you don't  think there is much support for the CF. I've been involved in coaching my sons amateur sports for a number of years. So you get to meet a variety  of people. I have friends who are cops, teachers, doctors, constuction workers and other occupations. And not one of them has anything but the highest respect and gratitude for what the CF is doing. WE may not be very knowledgeable about what you are doing, but just where do you find out about the CF? The CBC?. I admit I don't live in downtown Vancouver or Toronto. I don't go to University of Victoria. I don't bother posting on CBC website. I live in a conservative area.  Part of the problem is that most of the CF is out of site out of mind. The only time I ever see any member of the CF is when the Snowbirds fly over my house during Abbotsford Airshow. So there is never any face to face, never a chance to talk to anyone in the CF. I live in a fairly small town, but last Nov. 11 there were thousands out to show respect to our veterans. But also for the people in CF now. There was a small group from Cold Lake out for the olympics so they marched in the parade. I bet none of them had any doubts that the civilians supported them and what they do. Please don't confuse Jack Layton and his bunch with the majority of Canadians.

 

[ArmyRick]

IGA,

We appreciate the "silent majority" like you.  Keep it up! 

My rant is aimed at the typical young (or obsolete hippy) punk that goes on about goverment conspiracies, police states and anything that makes them responsible. I do also aim at fluffy air heads (like certain theorist and proffessors) who basically want to see us do nothing but unarmed/minimal armed UN missions.

 

[Davionn]

Well said, IGA!  It's true that we seem to focus sometimes on the negative, especially when we experience it firsthand.  I live in Toronto now, and must admit to having my fair share.  The funny thing is that when I really think about it, there are actually more positive experiences out there:

The woman who spoke to me at a fast food chain just to say thanks for what the CF does.  The guy at Timmies who insisted on buying me a coffee.  The streetcar full of commuters that applauded me upon boarding, loaded with kit, stinking and filthy, after returning from a weekend exercise.  It was the longest ride of life as several insisted on speaking with me.  I was a little self conscious in my state. I had cleaned myself up as much as I could before leaving the armouries, but the smell sticks around until you shower.  No one seemed to mind, though...  I have to admit, that last one affected me the most.  I realized in each instance that it wasn't just me they were showing appreciation for, but all of us in uniform.


Davionn

Davionn

 

[owa]

Yeah, I think a big problem is that the only ones who are vocal are the ones who have problems.  Mostly everyone else is pretty carefree and supportive.  Even a lot of left-wing nuts are supportive haha...  Such as myself.

Albeit, I think sometimes you have to mindful that a lot of people love the CF and hate the mission.  I'm not sure if I support the current mission, but I believe in the members of the CF.  I just don't know enough about the mission to make a fair judgment on it.

With that said, there are an awful lot of people out there who just like to hear their own voice, so it turns into a bit of a gong show when they start spouting off about anything and everything.  CBC comments are a prime example of that, haha.

 

[Brad Sallows]

It's unfair to tar Canadians at large.  To be specific, many of the people who comment on media bulletin boards (CBC, Macleans, etc) are ignorant - in the literal meaning of the word, not a merely pejorative one.  Their opinions are informed by widely held contemporary myths about modern western military forces, and fictional interpretations (Hollywood, popular literature) of aforementioned forces.  To judge by several recent political flaps, a large number of those people are also prone to defer to those they presume to be "experts", and hence to accept the "expert" opinions as gospel (even when the "experts" stray far out of the lanes in which they have anything like expertise).  For example, Michael Ignatieff is widely held (in some quarters worshipped) to possess a keen and penetrating intellect, so he can utter something like this (reported by CBC) with respect to the editing of a Wikipedia article about the F-35:

Ignatieff said the incidents show the government has "something to hide."

"Instead of making the case for Canadians ... saying, 'this is why we need this plane,' they're playing these games with Wikipedia," Ignatieff said, while in Toronto on his summer bus tour.

"If you can't prove this case straight up and you have to resort to these tricks, then there's something wrong with the very proposition."

and yet few people will think, "Gee, that exhibits not much more common sense than the average grouse."

 

[prouver]

ArmyRick,  you are correct. Who else are responsible for these slanderous statements and deliberately ill-conceived 'misconceptions' but the Communist Party of Canada together with their agents of influence in the media. Not only distorted but blatantly provocative to the extent of realizing that the Bible is indeed true that there are 'people out there seeking death'. Canadian law is clear on this: Provocation is a valid defense against homicide. Sorry to have gone this far but patience has ran out.

" When I feel like swallowing hard and the public are all out ther glued in their TV sets watching me, I hurriedly grab glasses of water and drink to hide my guilt from these pro-capitalist voters"-Jack Layton, a suspected Cuban spy. " I cough when I get the cue from a coughing journalist out there who asked me questions".

 

[ArmyRick]

Huh? What? Explain in six year old speak please...  ???

 

[OldSolduer]

Huh? What? Explain in six year old speak please...  ???

Both of us are infantry. Small words, short sentences please.

Thank you

 

[prouver]

Just like the moderators are in this forum: mere messengers (following orders). And don't shoot the messenger.
"Canada is enemy territory"-Fidel Castro. Gather your nearest kin and ask for anything suspicious in the backyard. I tell you, he has assassins, dreadful and kill without mercy.

 

[Journeyman]

Just like the moderators are in this forum: mere messengers (following orders). And don't shoot the messenger.
"Canada is enemy territory"-Fidel Castro. Gather your nearest kin and ask for anything suspicious in the backyard. I tell you, he has assassins, dreadful and kill without mercy.

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