Canadian soldiers return to Kandahar

[scm77]

Cdn. troops headed to Kandahar: report

CTV.ca News Staff

Hundreds more Canadians could be headed to Afghanistan next year, as part of a military aid team the federal government is expected to announce today.

Citing an anonymous source, The National Post reports that between 250 and 500 soldiers will be sent to the southern half of the country to serve as (cut off)

The paper reports the multidisciplinary battle group will be comprised of personnel from infantry, combat engineer and other military units across Canada.

The new troops would head to the Kandahar-area beginning next summer, to accompany the agencies, diplomats and aid workers also on the "provincial reconstruction team."

After cutting its troop deployment from 2,000 last summer, there are currently 700 Canadian troops serving in Afghanistan. They will be replaced by a fresh contingent in February.

On Thursday, the soldiers heading out for that six-month tour of duty took part in a mock exercise recreating the conditions of Kabul on the grounds of Canadian Forces Base Petawawa in Ontario.

For those who have never been on a mission overseas, the simulation was an introduction to life on Camp Julien, outside the Afghanistan capital Kabul.

But the troops concede Even so, there is no telling what these troops will face.

"Anything could change on us at a moment's notice," Master Cpl. Darleen Massicotte told CJOH's Chris Day, "It's just unpredictable what we could run into over there."

Private Hugh Ruff is looking forward to his first mission overseas.

"I joined the forces to help people and I think this is a very good way to do it. I guess that's why I'm excited to be given the opportunity to help people," he said.

Just last month military ombudsman Andre Marin said Canadian troops at Camp Julien were exhausted and overworked.

He said the troops were doing double duty because of a recent decision that slashed the deployment of soldiers Afghanistan from 2,000 to 700.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1102682890804_171/?hub=TopStories
----------------
Anybody have any more info?

 

[pbi]

I was involved with assisting the national recce team that was in Afgh in late October. Kandahar(a US PRT) was one of several PRT locations that they visited, along with Herat in the west (US) and Mes-E-Sharif in the north (UK, etc). Kandahar was definitely one of the leading options under consideration when the team redeployed back to Canada. There were pros and cons to both Herat and to Kandahar (political as well as military) . The final decision was to be reserved for the MND following briefings and further discussions with allies.

Personally (and with no real knowledge of what happened after the team left Afgh..) my military prefernce is K'har. There is much more of a military job to be done there. It is also likely that we will work under the Brits or the US, far more preferable (IMHO) than ISAF (at least, based on what I see of ISAF VI...). K'har at present offers a lot of challenges, both to the military and to the GOs who would form the civ part of the PRT (Foreign Affairs and CIDA, with others such as RCMP and Agriculture Canada possible). Canada could be back in the spotlight again instead of being just a bit player in K-town (no disrespect whatsoever to those serving there right now...)

I hope we dump K-town altogether and get out complete to a new location soonest. I sincerely hope that some of the good folks on this board get a chance to serve in K'har or wherever we end up going. Cheers.

 

[ImanIdiot]

Does anyone think there will be militia augmentees allowed on the initial deployments? Or is this a reg force only party?

 

[pbi]

I don't think we've decided on the force composition of the military element of the PRT yet. You can be pretty suer there will be a CIMIC element, which raises the likelihood of Res being involved. There is a strong precedent here for the use of Res: the US mans most of its PRTs with Army Res or ARNG personnel, hopefully something that our national recce team picked up on.

One factor that may work against Res participation is the threat level in Kandahar and region: it is higher than Kabul and at the present time is smack in the centre of an area of bad guy activity. Most of the recent US deaths have occurred in that general area of the country. Although the threat may have declined by the time we go in (if we go in...), I think that some people may feel a bit queasy sending Res into the area. Cheers.

 

[Gunner]

One factor that may work against Res participation is the threat level in Kandahar and region: it is higher than Kabul and at the present time is smack in the centre of an area of bad guy activity. Most of the recent US deaths have occurred in that general area of the country. Although the threat may have declined by the time we go in (if we go in...), I think that some people may feel a bit queasy sending Res into the area.

This would be the first time I have heard of Reserves not being allowed to go into a theatre of operations because it was too dangerous.  A more likely scenario is the level of skill sets (ie a LAV Coy) will preclude the deployment of formed Reserve sub-units.  Moreover, the army will almost be completed its reconstitution cycle (scheduled to be completed in Jan 06) and there will be more than enough Regular soldiers available to go.  As you have mentioned, CIMIC (a Reserve based capability) will be a key element on any PRT will deploy to Afghanistan in the future.

Any deployment that is planned in excess of 3/4 of a year in advance should have Reserve participation in varying degrees in order to provide additional flexibility within the army.  Keep the Regulars intact for short notice deployments that require a high degree of unit cohesion and training.

Cheers,

 

[bossi]

Some more, from another "open source":

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=9b25374d-9204-45fb-b753-f3f72c8614b8

Canada likely to deploy soldiers, civilians to Afghan region of Kandahar
 
Stephen Thorne, Canadian Press, December 10, 2004


OTTAWA -- Canadian soldiers will likely return to the southern Afghan region of Kandahar next summer to take over operation of a provincial reconstruction team from the U.S. military, an official said Friday.

The region, where the Taliban was born and where about 900 fighting Canadian soldiers were based in 2002, is still considered a hotbed of resistance and ultra-conservative Islam.

Canadian government and military officials are discussing plans with NATO to insert an undetermined number of civilians and soldiers into the ancient trade route near the Pakistan border.

An official announcement is expected once plans are finalized later this winter, said Kimberly Phillips, a spokeswoman at the Foreign Affairs Department.

Phillips said strategies are being planned to "mitigate the risk.

"We have looked at the options and we felt that the Kandahar region best suits Canadian strengths and capabilities," she said.

"The Kandahar region is very important to Afghanistan and stabilization and extension of Afghan government authority in this region is a critical component of the Afghan government's priority program."

The so-called PRTs, numbering in strength from the dozens to the hundreds, were started in early 2003 with U.S.-led teams in Gardez, Bamian and Kunduz. By this fall, 19 PRTs had been established across Afghanistan, either under U.S. or NATO authority.

Canada currently has about 700 troops with NATO's International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in the Afghan capital of Kabul.

Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew and Defence Minister Bill Graham have said Canada will maintain that commitment beyond its current mandate next August and add at least one PRT, possibly two.

The PRTs deploy international soldiers and civilians in provincial areas with the aim of extending the authority of the Afghan central government and, with their added security, promoting development and reconstruction.

PRTs also support the demobilization and disarmament of militias; building an accountable national army and national police force under democratic control; stamping out the drug trade; and building a legal system.

The PRT in Bamian is now led by New Zealand. It and the teams led by the United States operate under the U.S.-led war on terrorism known as Operation Enduring Freedom.

The United Nations Security Council unanimously agreed in October 2003 to expand ISAF's mandate to allow it to operate outside Kabul, both in the form of PRTs and through limited temporary deployments.

 

[armyrules]

I Hope that everyone that is going to have a safe trip and come home safe

 

[Da_man]

Some 031 positions opening up! Good!   Im  young and stupid, its a job for me  

 

[Armymedic]

Some 031 positions opening up! Good!   Im young and stupid, its a job for me

A "young and stupid" 031...
:

Oh great, just what I need...more work (as I loosen the med bag straps and put on the gloves)....

 

[Bartok5]

Oh great, just what I need...more work (as I loosen the med bag straps and put on the gloves)....

Let's not become over-melodromatic here.  Given the options of an OEF role with a PRT in K'har or an ISAF PRT in Herat, the logical choice was blindingly obvious.  Unless the political decision-makers are even more dense that I automatically give them credit for, the selection of K'har within the ISAF construct was a "no brainer".

Hmmm... let's see.  We can send a contigent to K'har City, 18 km up the road from a 5,000-person coalition base at the airfield with "on-call" Apache and QRF capabilities.  The K'har OEF Coalition base gives  a prospective Canadian PRT a proximate secure location to withdraw to should things turn pear-shaped.  The K'har airfield iteself, offers the ability to sustain the operation with immediate provision of logistics requirements.  Oh, and let's not forget that fielding the operation under OEF (vice ISAF) achieves numerous political aims.  Not the least of which is demonstrating to our U.S. allies (yet again) that notwithstanding the national disconnect over Iraq, we are "with them" for the coalition effort in Afghanistan.  Not to mention the fact that our renewed participation in OEF is likely to give us access to a whole host of resources ranging from airlift, to intelligence-sharing, to an immense logistics base, to a secure withdrawal location (and the requisite air and ground support to get us there).

What was the other option?  Oh yes - Herat, under the ISAF mandate.  Yep, good thinking there.  Let's see - that would (arguably) be the most volatile of all feasible PRT locations.  We would face the near-total dominance of the local warlord (versus the central government), the destabilizing (and very active) Iranian influence, etc, etc, etc.  Oh, and we would be 8 hours by road from the nearest Coalition support at Kandahar.  Did I mention that the road from K'har to Herat is closed from November to April?  So much for sustainment by ground transport.....

Deploying a PRT into K'har Province as part of the U.S.-led OEF Coalition is the smartest possible thing that we could do.  ISAF is all  fine and well (sort of), but in the grand scheme of things our ISAF commitment  is of limited utility.  Getting back with the mainstream program and committing a PRT to OEF (with all of the assciated benefits) is undoubtedly the way to go.  Quite frankly, I am dismayed that other ISAF-based alternatives were seriously considered....

Just my thoughts, of course....

 

[little_mp]

Just out of curiosity how much of Afghanistan is actually under controle by the intrim government and the ISAF? From what I hear its only in Kabul? What happend to the rest of the country and Kandahar where 3PPCLI was in 2001? Thanks in advance to anyone who can enlighten me a little more.

 

[pbi]

All of the country of Afghanistan is nominally under the control of the Afghan Transitional Authority, of which Hamid Kharzai is now the inaugurated President. By "nominally" I mean that in each Province there are ATA officials, and usually some Army (ANA) or Police(ANP) presence. How far these officials can actually project their power is a good question in some of the more remote areas, but except for the southern and eastern frontier provinces that border Pakistan (and are the location of the remaining Coalition combat ops), there are almost no significant examples of force being used against the ATA's officials.

The situation is somewhat complicated in the West and the North by two regional power brokers ("warlords") who could potentially challenge the ATA's authority if they saw some advantage in doing it. In the West is Ishmail Khan, who was briefly the ATA governor of Herat Provine, but was deposed by Kharzai in a move backed by US and ANA forces. Ishmael Khan remains in Herat and is still a local presence, but the West and in particular Herat Province is relatively calm: the US force presence there is quite light.So far "IK" is behaving himself. In the North is General Rashid Dostum, who was a major player in defeating the Taleban/AQ/HiG alliance, and still retains some militia forces. He has in general been cooperative, but like Ishmael Khan remains a potential force to be reckoned with.
Both these individuals, "IK" in particular, are believed to be making fortunes off various illegal activities such as narcotics and illegal trade duties. Cracking down on them could be problematic. To date Dostum has generally cooperated with ISAF who are the foreign military presence in the North.

As to the issue of ISAF's span of control: nominally it "controls" the Northern Provinces but in fact its military presence is limited to four or five PRTs and a coy-sized QRF. There is no secret that this "force" would be utterly inadequate to exert real "control" if it came to push and shove. ISAF instead relies on coperation with the local authorities, and tends to operate in support of the ATA rather than in place of it. ISAF also"controls" the Province of Kabul, which includes the capitol city of about 3 million people as well as the vital hydroelectric power site in Surobi District, in the eastern part of Kabul Province. While the ISAF military presence in the city is about a Bde (+), that out in the rest of the Province is very limited: ISAF cannot really claim to "control" Surobi District, for example.

My use of quotation marks around the word "control" is advised: in fact the official policy of both ISAF and the US-led Coalition is that the ATA is in control of the country and all actions are taken in support of its wishes and policies. This is known as the "Afghan Face" policy and was demonstrated very clearly during the Presidential election in Oct, when the immediate physical security of polling stations and counting houses was provided bty ANA and ANP. ISAF or OEF troops stood back, ready to suppotr if required, or conducted other operations to help counter the enemy threat to the elections.

US-led Coalition Forces (Operation Enduring Freedom-OEF) are present in three major Regional Commands which are in turn under the command of Combined Joint Task Force 76 (where I work). RC East (Task Force Thunder) conducts operations and runs PRTs in the eastern provinces such as Paktia and Nangarhar. RC South (TF Bronco) controls operations and PRTs in the southern provinces such as Kandahar and Zabul. Both these RCs are engaged in combat, stability and nation-building ops in cooperation with the ATA. These two commands are located in the most dangerous areas of the country. The western provinces (Herat, Gor, etc) are the responsibility of RC West (TF Longhorn). This RC is fairly quiet and is relatively lightly manned.

Overall, I would say that OEF is present in about 3/4 of Afghanistan, while ISAF is present in the remaining 1/ 4. Cheers.

 

[little_mp]

Thanks pbi I apricate you taking the time to type that all out to better the knowledge of an idiot like myself

 

[armyrules]

great post pbi

 

[Edward Campbell]

Thanks, pbi for that clear, concise (and I assume, based on your previous contributions: accurate) report.

I hope some retired members (including some from your regiment) who have joined the national commentariat are members of army.ca and take advantage of your inputs here.

 

[Yeoman]

I remember hearing this. hopefully this will make someone clue in, and they ship some more of the 031's from here to go over seas. cuz those boys will be burnt out within 3 months of being there.
Greg

 

[amcd]

Hi all,
What's the latest news on the upcoming PRT? I heard some units were given warning orders in February but haven't heard anything since. I'm sure things must be pretty advanced by now but there hasn't been much in the press. Anyone got the info?
Thanks.

 

[Armymedic]

The initial recces are being planned

Scuttlebut aound is that the gov't is reconsidering the plan to go to Kandahar with a PRT for "polictical" reasons. Also there is talk of Camp Julien being sold off in a yr or two to another country.

Point to note...The PRT program has been going on a while now, roughly 2 yrs. We are getting into the game a little late. So unless we take over someone elses AOR, then we will be getting some less desirable location. When they say Khandahar...do they mean the city or the provices?

And why Khandahar, why not Herat, or Mazer-a- Sharef?

 

[Gunner]

Scuttlebut aound is that the gov't is reconsidering the plan to go to Kandahar with a PRT for "polictical" reasons.

I haven't heard that (from a force generator perspective) and as you mention the initial recce is being planned .... but there are several poltical reasons why they would change their mind...

Also there is talk of Camp Julien being sold off in a yr or two to another country.

We had the same talk on Roto 2 so obviously my information is out of date.  Canada was either going to have to sell the camp or reinvest alot of money in infrastructure (ie Hesco Bastien).  The other aspect of it, was we weren't going to have anyone in Kabul to actually live in the camp so responsibility needed to be dealt with.  There were several agencies that we thought might like to buy it from us.  Have to watch and shoot from this end (Canada).

The PRT program has been going on a while now, roughly 2 yrs. We are getting into the game a little late. So unless we take over someone elses AOR, then we will be getting some less desirable location. When they say Khandahar...do they mean the city or the provices?

We are late from an Op Enduring Freedom perspective but not so much from an ISAF perspective.  Not sure how much we can discuss about ISAF expansion, etc here.  Probably best not to...

And why Khandahar, why not Herat, or Mazer-a- Sharef?

Well, Herat was supposed to be Italian (according to the news release last Dec/Jan).  MeS (UK?) remains an ISAF PRT for the forseeable future.  Kandahar (see comments above about OPSEC).

 

[amcd]

Thanks for the info. As for whether or not the PRT is a go, well, nothing's for sure. But it would take some kind of wild political mess (Prime Minister Layton?) to stop it now. International commitments have been made.

And, as for where the PRT is located, I heard it's not in Kandahar (where there are a lot of Americans) but rather to the southeast, maybe 30 clicks. Right in the middle of the 'badlands,' said  one Col. familiar with the area. This guy also said we waited too long and got 'the short end of the straw.' As in, this is going to be a pretty belligerent province to reconstruct.

I know some officers have received initial orders, but that's all. I'm trying to figure out when this deployment will occur. Originally the base was going up in June. Not sure if that's still the case.


Any more info is much appreciated.