Canadian Officials Visit US Deserter

[wdewitt]

Canadian Officials Visit US Deserter
March 16, 2009
Associated Press

SAN DIEGO - Two Canadian Parliament members on Sunday visited a U.S. Army deserter being held in a brig in San Diego after unsuccessfully trying to seek refuge in Canada.

Robin Long, 25, of Boise, Idaho, fled to Canada in 2005 to avoid serving in Iraq, but was deported last summer after losing a court battle to stay in that country. Long became the first American resister to the Iraq war to be removed by Canadian authorities.

Parliamentarians Olivia Chow and Borys Wrzesnewskyj traveled to the Naval Consolidated Brig Miramar in San Diego where Long is serving a 15-month sentence after pleading guilty last August to a reduced charge of desertion.

During the 45-minute meeting, the government officials were not allowed to take notes or record the interview. Chow said Long appeared in good spirits and did not complain, but told them that he missed his young son in Canada.

"My heart sank, it was very heavy," Chow said after the meeting. "I was angry that Canada deported him."

Some 200 American deserters are thought to have fled to Canada to avoid service in Iraq. None so far have been granted refugee status. During the Vietnam War, an estimated 90,000 Americans won refuge in Canada, mostly to avoid the draft.

The lower house of Canada's Parliament passed a nonbinding motion in June urging that U.S. military deserters be allowed to stay in Canada, but the Conservative Party government has ignored the vote.

During his sentencing last year, Long, who had been stationed at Fort Collins, Colo., told a military judge that he left over moral objections.

Wrzesnewskyj said he was troubled to learn from Long that he was handed over in handcuffs and had to surrender his military documents to Canadian authorities.

"He took a principled stand against the war in Iraq and he has borne severe consequences," Wrzesnewsky said.

I hope they did not use government funds to see our poor boy since we are in a deep recession. Instead it could be used to help other Canadians that really need the help. : :-[ :crybaby:

 

[Journeyman]

"He took a principled stand against the war in Iraq and he has borne severe consequences," Wrzesnewsky said.

I suppose that's a bizarre chain of thought for our left politicians:
a) some people actually take principled stands, as opposed to merely rhetorical bleating, (not that I agree with deserters' "stands,") and
b) there are consequences to our actions

 

[ExSarge]

Principled stand my butt! He deserted! The only principal here at play is the principal of “self”. Had he as a serving member of the armed forces gone to his chain of command and said “I object to the war, I will not serve” That would be a principled stand! To desert is the action of a coward! He, like all members of the military in western democracies signed a contract with his government. He agreed to serve in war or peace, to go and do as legally ordered, and yes to die if required or simply ordered to do so. In exchange his government agreed to pay, house, feed, and provide medical treatment and other compensations as set forth in the enlistment contract. As long as the contract suited him all was well, when he was placed in possible jeopardy he developed principals? Please! Ms. Chow and Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, by there actions in supporting this amoral coward dishonour every Canadian serving their country. They should be ashamed of themselves!

 

[The Bread Guy]

Want to help folks in custody, do they?  I await their visit with THIS Canadian to see how she's doing.  Maybe the party leader can talk her out, right?

 

[helpup]

If you took the jail time in the first place rather then run away and hide in "good ole Canada".  That would be standing up for your principals. You volunteer for a army and sign a dotted line you are bound to your commitment to that army.  Dont like it start putting in memo's and accept the results.  NO SYMPATHY here!!!!!

 

[ModlrMike]

Some 200 American deserters are thought to have fled to Canada to avoid service in Iraq. None so far have been granted refugee status. During the Vietnam War, an estimated 90,000 Americans won refuge in Canada, mostly to avoid the draft.

Therein lies the difference. The draft dodgers chose not to serve, AND not to go while the "war resisters" chose to serve BUT not to go. Two distinctly different actions. While there are arguments to be made about the first group, it is clear that the second group must take responsibility for their actions. If their moral character is such that they won't participate in the war, then they must have the moral character to live with the consequences rather than flee the country.

 

[helpup]

Even with events such as Stop-loss, ( and I dont really agree with the U.S Govt doing that for this conflict) There is a big differance in putting in paperwork against it and doing the consequences or running away from it.  The whole running away from your problems I just dont get.  Being drafted is a bit of a differant story that I am not going to comment on this post.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Now, the Liberals (or a branch thereof) have to get in on the act (although stopping short of visiting).....

The Liberal Women’s Caucus is calling on the Conservative government to show its support for U.S. war resisters who are seeking to stay in Canada.  “These are individuals who have left military service related to a war not sanctioned by the United Nations and who have no criminal record,” said Chair of the National Liberal Women’s Caucus Maria Minna. “As Canadians, we must show them compassion instead of punishing them for their principles.” .... “One of these individuals, Kimberly Rivera, has a warrant out for her arrest in the United States and is currently breastfeeding her three-month-old daughter Katie Marie,” said Ms. Minna. “By deporting Ms. Rivera and her family back to the U.S., we are saying that it is ok for her to be separated from her daughter for conscientiously refusing to support a war that was not sanctioned by the international community.”

 

[helpup]

They have not left the military service they are AWOL, and outright deserted.  There are mechanisms in place in the US Forces to not go over ( not all successfull mind you ) and there are consequences when you volunteer for a job and decide not to do it.  Most of those consequences do not involve a criminal record but a dishonorable discharge ( correct me if I am wrong ).  I dont get the whole not sanctioned by the United Nations bit.  Most wars are not sanctioned. I may as well turn that around and state that the service is related to a war not offically opposed by the United Nations.
Call me a Cynic I would like some details about this 3 month kid suckling on mom.  concieved at what point in her running away process.  I would call these people tools but tools are usfull unless they are broken.

 

[ARMY_101]

How do you respond to the argument that they've left the war because it's "illegal" and "immoral"?  (I don't buy it; it just seems to be a common argument about why they should be allowed to run away.)

 

[ModlrMike]

How do you respond to the argument that they've left the war because it's "illegal" and "immoral"?  (I don't buy it; it just seems to be a common argument about why they should be allowed to run away.)

You do it by accepting that if you're going to claim bravery and the moral high ground in opposing the war, then you have a moral obligation to exhibit the courage to live with the consequences of your decision. Running away to avoid the consequences is nether moral nor brave.

 

[The Bread Guy]

How do you respond to the argument that they've left the war because it's "illegal" and "immoral"?

I draw the parallel to a police officer who chooses not to protect an individual, or a firefighter not putting out a house fire, because they disagree with what the person is doing or what's happening at the house.  If you really disagree with what the political masters are doing with the force....

You do it by accepting that if you're going to claim bravery and the moral high ground in opposing the war, then you have a moral obligation to exhibit the courage to live with the consequences of your decision.

 

[Teflon]

I have no problem with an individual who joins a military who refuses to go serve in a conflict he/she is morally oposed to if He/She states their reasons and stands up for them to face the concequences. Those that DESERT are not taking a stand based off moral values (how does their running away do anything help) All they are doing getting them out of doing what they don't want to do (be it out of cowerdice or selfishness) DESERTERs are NOT taking a moral stand but then again they certainly arn't going to pitch their story by telling the truth (ie: I ran away because I don't want to risk getting hurt or killed or I love this army gig as long as I get the pay and benifits without assumming any risk to myself!)

 

[ExSarge]

Let’s look at this from another angle; under civil law (both US and CDN) a contract is a binding legal document. These individuals signed a contract with the US military and then swore an oath. The contract states in part that they will obey all legal orders. The oath states “I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God”. Now they and their supported are surprised that the government expects them to honour the contract. Their actions are akin to someone from an environmental group who signs a contract to buy a house and refusing to complete the deal because he just realized that trees were used to provide the building material.
There has not been a draft in the US in over thirty years. None of these individuals was forced to join the military. They are all adults, and one would suppose that they managed to pass the minimum intelligence requirements for enlistment. They joined for the pay and the GI benefits that the US military pays out, everything from education support to housing and small business loans (Under the GI Bill). They gave no thought to what military service entails, they saw nothing but what they could get out of it.

 

[OldSolduer]

So Olivia Chow is angry Canada deported him is she? :rage:

Too bad Olivia. We have laws here in CANADA  to prevent people from avoiding their DUTY in their own nation.
Ms. Chow saying that qualifies for the stupidest thing I've heard, ever.

I would say more, but my personable demeanour prevents me from doing that.  :rage:

Ms Chow wants to make me become physically ill.

 

[HDE]

Seems a bit of a stretch to see Olivia and Boris as "Canadian officials"; strictly speaking they weren't there acting on behalf of the Government of Canda.  Personally I've seen Olivia Chow engage in far too much melodrama/photo op behaviour over the years to give much credence to what she says.

 

[Shrek1985]

These people are lucky it's 'unfashionable' to declare war anymore. Not that the leftists would let them get away with it, but I am willing to bet that the maximum punishment for desertion in the face of the enemy (in time of war) is still death.

What most people, my own family included, seem to forget is that these people have commited the greatest sin possible in the armed forces, they have abandoned their comrades when in need. And no lesser an insult for ever deserted, someone else had to take their place. I would love to see if anyone has died in the place of these 'men' while they were busy taking their 'stands'.

Last but not least I seem to recall the good ole Sergeant York (CMH) was a Quaker. That's my response to anyone with religious or pacifistic convictions. After all Pacifism is the original Immoral Position as a pacifist refuses to defend that which defends him or her. Too bad almost no one raises their kids anymore to belive in 'My Country, Right or Wrong'

 

[OldSolduer]

Shrek:

Well said!

 

[mariomike]

Last but not least I seem to recall the good ole Sergeant York (CMH) was a Quaker. That's my response to anyone with religious or pacifistic convictions.

Sergeant York was a man of strong convictions by the time the war started. It's an interesting story:
http://www.workersforjesus.com/york.htm

He applied for Conscientious Objector status, but was denied by his draft board:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Conscientious_Objector_Claim_of_Appeal_for_Alvin_Cullum_York.gif

 

[Jarnhamar]

Parliamentarians Olivia Chow and Borys Wrzesnewskyj traveled to the Naval Consolidated Brig Miramar in San Diego where Long is serving a 15-month sentence after pleading guilty last August to a reduced charge of desertion.

During the 45-minute meeting, the government officials were not allowed to take notes or record the interview. Chow said Long appeared in good spirits and did not complain, but told them that he missed his young son in Canada.

"My heart sank, it was very heavy," Chow said after the meeting. "I was angry that Canada deported him."

He missed his son in Canada. That's pretty sad, no more or less sad though than all the thousands of serving members overseas who miss THEIR family.

Only difference is this fellow knows he's seeing his son again in 15 months, soldiers serving in theater can't make that claim.

He's doing a 15 month jail sentence? That's just about as long as he would be doing if he was sent overseas right?
Seems too easy.
Serve 15 months, dishonourable discharge see you later.

Is there an email address or something for Olivia Chow and Borys Wrzesnewskyj? I'd like to mail them and send my regards.