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Canadian Federal Election 44 - Sep 2021

Humphrey Bogart

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As long as Trudeau is the leader of the Liberal Party of Canada I refuse to vote for them. I've got some very simple reasons for this:

1. The Admiral Norman Affair;
2. WE Charity Scandal;
3. Decision to Withdraw Military Assets in the Fight against ISIS;
4. Foreign Policy Blunders; and
5. Fiscal Mismanagement that's dragged in to COVID and will cause long term damage to our economy and working class people.

Basically it boils down to two triggers for me:

1. Corruption; and
2. Weak Foreign Policy.

Both of which I think are slowly but surely weakening Canada on the World Stage and setting us up for long-term pain.

I also acknowledge that many Canadians don't care because many of these policies personally benefit them at this point in time. CEWS, CERB, etc. CEWS has been wildly beneficial to certain businesses who have used it as basically a massive tax write-off. This more or less explains PMJTs continued popularity.

What does this all point to? A population addicted to Bread and Circus and that's never good for the long term health of a Country.

I think we are going to be in for some very lean years ahead:

Canada inflation hits 18-year-high with election just days away
 

ArmyRick

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I’m not so sure. It has a lot to do with the alternatives being offered I think. I see this as a get back to work already sort of thing. O’Toole fell victim to his inexperience in a national campaign turning off some of his supporters and events that were untimely for him. In the context of a pandemic he said a lot things most Canadians didn’t want to hear from a leader.
Ummm no. Look at
-Black Face multiple incidents
-Firing JWR for doing her job
-kicking Jane Philpott out for standing up for JWR
-2 x Ethics Violations
-Belittling Celina Caesar-Chavennes and causing her to quit
-Agra Khan
-SNC-Lavalin
-WE Charity Scandal
-Embarrassing Canada on his India trip
-Still Reservations without potable water
-Elbowing fellow MPs
-Journalist groping

How LONG does the list need to be, Remius? A brain dead baboon on crystal meth would basically do a better job that Trudeau.

O'Toole lacks experience on campaigning? Oh please, he has the conservative party behind him which has plenty of campaigning experience.

To sum it up, the die hard Trudeau cult worshippers (thats all they are) were the ones spreading the same old rumours and mistruths about the Conservatives. When you look at their poorly thought our arguments (like "cons are bad" and "Can't trust any cons", you know the lame and intellectually lacking arguments) you know they are stuck in a sheltered world. To Me, Trudeau supporters are morally bankrupt people that lack integrity, accountability and transparency. Like their idiot leader.

Canada needs a wake up call.
 

Remius

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Well the reality, at least for me at this moment, is the loss of about $15,000 based on the OiC on newly prohibited firearms. I'm also sure that that list will now be expanded costing me more of my retirement funds. What amazes me more than anything are the amount of gun owners that voted PPC knowing it would help get trudeau re-elected, resulting in the theft of their property by the government. I'm creating a bald spot scratching my head on that one.
It will be telling when and if we see those numbers and the impact it may have had. I see the PPC for all its craziness as a place that people can park their votes in protest to whatever. But, it may also be a work in progress that some believe may actually lead to seats and a voice at some point in parliament. The main problem I think, is that it does not have the ability (or even the will) to get the vote out in any efficient way. It can generate a lot of popular support that is wide to an extent but no real depth.
 

Remius

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Ummm no. Look at
-Black Face multiple incidents
-Firing JWR for doing her job
-kicking Jane Philpott out for standing up for JWR
-2 x Ethics Violations
-Belittling Celina Caesar-Chavennes and causing her to quit
-Agra Khan
-SNC-Lavalin
-WE Charity Scandal
-Embarrassing Canada on his India trip
-Still Reservations without potable water
-Elbowing fellow MPs
-Journalist groping

How LONG does the list need to be, Remius? A brain dead baboon on crystal meth would basically do a better job that Trudeau.

O'Toole lacks experience on campaigning? Oh please, he has the conservative party behind him which has plenty of campaigning experience.

To sum it up, the die hard Trudeau cult worshippers (thats all they are) were the ones spreading the same old rumours and mistruths about the Conservatives. When you look at their poorly thought our arguments (like "cons are bad" and "Can't trust any cons", you know the lame and intellectually lacking arguments) you know they are stuck in a sheltered world. To Me, Trudeau supporters are morally bankrupt people that lack integrity, accountability and transparency. Like their idiot leader.

Canada needs a wake up call.
Sorry Army Rick but this needs to be looked at in a critical way. You list a lot valid things that are legit but some of those, most Canadians could care less about. Or have already been litigated already in the court of public opinion.

Again, this is about alternatives being offered. It looks like those voters didn’t like what was on offer.

Lack of experience. Let me explain. This is his first run for PM. He had a great two weeks. His last two weeks were not. He got tripped up on his gun flip flop/confusing message. So much so he had to amend his platform. That didn’t help. So decry the LPC all you want about cult following or what not, that turned away CPC supporters. And opened a Pandora’s box of what else he may have flip flopped on. That creates doubt. He is to blame for that. He could have stayed consistant. To be honest the anti gun types were not going to vote for him so I’m not sure why he didn’t clarify better and stay consistant. I think he saw that as a possible opening to be attacked on and he fumbled.

On vaccine mandates he really did not perform well. He wants 95% of the population vaccinated but wouldn’t commit to mandates, would not confirm his own members’ status and mishandled the Kenny vector by refusing to take questions, cancelled interviews and never mentioned Kenny again. That could have been handled better.

If all the CPC and CPC supporters do is blame LPC voters to be cult like and not actually look at what actually might be some points to improve on and change they will never win.

And no offense. But the CPC had terrible campaigns the last two times. So add that to a new leader running and yes, experience plays a factor.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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Ummm no. Look at
-Black Face multiple incidents
-Firing JWR for doing her job
-kicking Jane Philpott out for standing up for JWR
-2 x Ethics Violations
-Belittling Celina Caesar-Chavennes and causing her to quit
-Agra Khan
-SNC-Lavalin
-WE Charity Scandal
-Embarrassing Canada on his India trip
-Still Reservations without potable water
-Elbowing fellow MPs
-Journalist groping

How LONG does the list need to be, Remius? A brain dead baboon on crystal meth would basically do a better job that Trudeau.

O'Toole lacks experience on campaigning? Oh please, he has the conservative party behind him which has plenty of campaigning experience.

To sum it up, the die hard Trudeau cult worshippers (thats all they are) were the ones spreading the same old rumours and mistruths about the Conservatives. When you look at their poorly thought our arguments (like "cons are bad" and "Can't trust any cons", you know the lame and intellectually lacking arguments) you know they are stuck in a sheltered world. To Me, Trudeau supporters are morally bankrupt people that lack integrity, accountability and transparency. Like their idiot leader.

Canada needs a wake up call.
The average voter doesn't track any of these issues though. Look where the Liberals are popular.... Major urban centres in Canada.

In order to understand the average Liberal voter, you need to put yourself in their shoes. Liberal Policies have been wildly beneficial for them:

  • Massive Increases in Home Values
  • Redistribution of Tax Dollars to Business Owners and Corporations
  • Record Stock Market Values

The average Liberal Voter is a Middle-aged, White, Urban Dweller, worked for the Government, Major Corporation or owns a Business, Owns a Home, Has significant retirement savings, etc.

This is who is keeping the Liberals in power and that's who the LPC directs their policies towards. COVID-19 and Liberal Policies have benefitted this section of the population.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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Sorry Army Rick but this needs to be looked at in a critical way. You list a lot valid things that are legit but some of those, most Canadians could care less about. Or have already been litigated already in the court of public opinion.

Again, this is about alternatives being offered. It looks like those voters didn’t like what was on offer.

Lack of experience. Let me explain. This is his first run for PM. He had a great two weeks. His last two weeks were not. He got tripped up on his gun flip flop/confusing message. So much so he had to amend his platform. That didn’t help. So decry the LPC all you want about cult following or what not, that turned away CPC supporters. And opened a Pandora’s box of what else he may have flip flopped on. That creates doubt. He is to blame for that. He could have stayed consistant. To be honest the anti gun types were not going to vote for him so I’m not sure why he didn’t clarify better and stay consistant. I think he saw that as a possible opening to be attacked on and he fumbled.

On vaccine mandates he really did not perform well. He wants 95% of the population vaccinated but wouldn’t commit to mandates, would not confirm his own members’ status and mishandled the Kenny vector by refusing to take questions, cancelled interviews and never mentioned Kenny again. That could have been handled better.

If all the CPC and CPC supporters do is blame LPC voters to be cult like and not actually look at what actually might be some points to improve on and change they will never win.

And no offense. But the CPC had terrible campaigns the last two times. So add that to a new leader running and yes, experience plays a factor.
Hit the nail right on the head!

My personal opinion is that Canadian politics and the political spectrum in this Country have shifted to the left. I would classify the Politics of this Country as being Corporate-Socialist in nature.

I see a lot of parallels in Canada right now with Peronism in Argentina. I personally think Canada, at least, economically, is heading in the direction of Argentina.
 

Altair

Army.ca Veteran
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Ummm no. Look at
-Black Face multiple incidents
-Firing JWR for doing her job
-kicking Jane Philpott out for standing up for JWR
-2 x Ethics Violations
-Belittling Celina Caesar-Chavennes and causing her to quit
-Agra Khan
-SNC-Lavalin
-WE Charity Scandal
-Embarrassing Canada on his India trip
-Still Reservations without potable water
-Elbowing fellow MPs
-Journalist groping

How LONG does the list need to be, Remius? A brain dead baboon on crystal meth would basically do a better job that Trudeau.

O'Toole lacks experience on campaigning? Oh please, he has the conservative party behind him which has plenty of campaigning experience.

To sum it up, the die hard Trudeau cult worshippers (thats all they are) were the ones spreading the same old rumours and mistruths about the Conservatives. When you look at their poorly thought our arguments (like "cons are bad" and "Can't trust any cons", you know the lame and intellectually lacking arguments) you know they are stuck in a sheltered world. To Me, Trudeau supporters are morally bankrupt people that lack integrity, accountability and transparency. Like their idiot leader.

Canada needs a wake up call.
Be that as it may, its easy to look past all that for things like 10 dollar a day daycare and not rolling back gun control.

I said it before, the CPC needs to make inroads in Urban Canada and they got shut out of the 3 biggest cities again and to add insult to injury they are losing seats in urban Alberta.
 

Altair

Army.ca Veteran
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The average voter doesn't track any of these issues though. Look where the Liberals are popular.... Major urban centres in Canada.

In order to understand the average Liberal voter, you need to put yourself in their shoes. Liberal Policies have been wildly beneficial for them:

  • Massive Increases in Home Values
  • Redistribution of Tax Dollars to Business Owners and Corporations
  • Record Stock Market Values

The average Liberal Voter is a Middle-aged, White, Urban Dweller, worked for the Government, Major Corporation or owns a Business, Owns a Home, Has significant retirement savings, etc.

This is who is keeping the Liberals in power and that's who the LPC directs their policies towards. COVID-19 and Liberal Policies have benefitted this section of the population.
Toss in a national childcare program knocking down a large expense for urban dwellers and yes, it doesn't matter what Trudeau does, they will not vote against their interests.

Same reason rural Alberta would not vote for the NDP, it would be going against their interests.
 

Good2Golf

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Well the reality, at least for me at this moment, is the loss of about $15,000 based on the OiC on newly prohibited firearms. I'm also sure that that list will now be expanded costing me more of my retirement funds. What amazes me more than anything are the amount of gun owners that voted PPC knowing it would help get trudeau re-elected, resulting in the theft of their property by the government. I'm creating a bald spot scratching my head on that one.
I bet you Trudeau & Co. will keep the standard weapon of his beloved friend Xi Jinping’s dictatorial People’s Liberation Army, the not-at-all-assaulty Norinco Type 97, on the available to buy at your local Cabela’s because…well…Chinese ‘not-assault’ rifles would never think about hurting people…oh, and “because it’s 2021!”

Go down to Cabela’s today and get yours, because Trudeau thinks these are A.O.K.! Norinco® TYPE 97 NSR-G3 Semi-Automatic Rifle | Cabela's Canada

#noliberalhipocrasy

1632242053048.jpeg
 

ArmyRick

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Sorry Army Rick but this needs to be looked at in a critical way. You list a lot valid things that are legit but some of those, most Canadians could care less about. Or have already been litigated already in the court of public opinion.

Again, this is about alternatives being offered. It looks like those voters didn’t like what was on offer.

Lack of experience. Let me explain. This is his first run for PM. He had a great two weeks. His last two weeks were not. He got tripped up on his gun flip flop/confusing message. So much so he had to amend his platform. That didn’t help. So decry the LPC all you want about cult following or what not, that turned away CPC supporters. And opened a Pandora’s box of what else he may have flip flopped on. That creates doubt. He is to blame for that. He could have stayed consistant. To be honest the anti gun types were not going to vote for him so I’m not sure why he didn’t clarify better and stay consistant. I think he saw that as a possible opening to be attacked on and he fumbled.

On vaccine mandates he really did not perform well. He wants 95% of the population vaccinated but wouldn’t commit to mandates, would not confirm his own members’ status and mishandled the Kenny vector by refusing to take questions, cancelled interviews and never mentioned Kenny again. That could have been handled better.

If all the CPC and CPC supporters do is blame LPC voters to be cult like and not actually look at what actually might be some points to improve on and change they will never win.

And no offense. But the CPC had terrible campaigns the last two times. So add that to a new leader running and yes, experience plays a factor.
I will try this again. Trudeau supporters are cult die hard followers.

I am looking at it critically.

No EXCUSE for giving Trudeau another mandate when the man is totally bankrupt. When one looks at the popular vote, Conservatives again kicked Liberals backside BUT it doesn't count in first past the post.

I do realize what makes up Trudeau liberal supporters. I also know many business owners who have no desire for Trudeau Liberals and their money sucking policies.

I would understand Canadians voting NDP, Green, PPC, Bloc or Conservatives but voting Trudeau's brand of Liberals? Moral bankrupt. End story.

Curious, who did you vote?
 

Remius

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I will try this again. Trudeau supporters are cult die hard followers.

I am looking at it critically.

No EXCUSE for giving Trudeau another mandate when the man is totally bankrupt. When one looks at the popular vote, Conservatives again kicked Liberals backside BUT it doesn't count in first past the post.

I do realize what makes up Trudeau liberal supporters. I also know many business owners who have no desire for Trudeau Liberals and their money sucking policies.

I would understand Canadians voting NDP, Green, PPC, Bloc or Conservatives but voting Trudeau's brand of Liberals? Moral bankrupt. End story.

Curious, who did you vote?
I voted for O’Toole. That should have no impact on the discussion if looking at things as unbiased as possible though.
 

Altair

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I will try this again. Trudeau supporters are cult die hard followers.
Same as CPC voters, looking at rural alberta and Saskatchewan
I am looking at it critically.

No EXCUSE for giving Trudeau another mandate when the man is totally bankrupt. When one looks at the popular vote, Conservatives again kicked Liberals backside BUT it doesn't count in first past the post.
If people wanted childcare and the liberals were the only party to deliver on it it only makes sense to vote for the Liberals. And the reality of FPTP in Canada means that either the Liberals or Conservatives were winning the election, so if you wanted the progressive goodies the liberals were promising, then one needs to vote liberal.
I do realize what makes up Trudeau liberal supporters. I also know many business owners who have no desire for Trudeau Liberals and their money sucking policies.

I would understand Canadians voting NDP, Green, PPC, Bloc or Conservatives but voting Trudeau's brand of Liberals? Moral bankrupt. End story.
Well, I guess Alberta and Saskatchewan could have voted orange and kicked out trudeau while delivering progressive legislation.
 

ArmyRick

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I voted for O’Toole. That should have no impact on the discussion if looking at things as unbiased as possible though.
From speaking to many Liberal supporters, their reasons for voting Trudeau was right out to lunch
-Better the devil you know than the devil you don't
-Can never trust the conservatives
-Erin O'Toole is a white supremacist blah, blah (Literally had a lady explain to me thats why she was urging everyone not to vote him)
-Look at what Harper/Mulroney did to the country
-O'Toole will take away our health care system and go for cash
-Doug Ford made a mess so I won't vote O'Toole
-Cons are out to destroy the environment for profit
-Cons only care for their rich corporate friends (this one or similar was VERY common)

thats the MIND SET I have an issue with. If people wouldn't vote conservative for whatever reason, their was better alternatives especially for the more left leaning.

People basically voted Trudeau back in for fear of a conservative government in my opinion
 

ArmyRick

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I will add in an interesting observation from an American immigrant to Canada who is a customer of mine (or was)

"Canadians are very timid and afraid of change or to challenge the status quo"

This came from a 50s something black lady from the US, somewhat left leaning and she originally voted Trudeau in 2015 and then said she couldn't stomach him in the 2019 election.

She ended up leaving Canada and points many of the reasons to his policies and his behaviour. I keep in touch with her still.

Thats only one outsiders view, but think about it.
 

Altair

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People basically voted Trudeau back in for fear of a conservative government in my opinion
I know a lot of progressive voters in other forums I frequent were scared that the Conservatives would get rid of the childcare program that they were looking forward to.

Another thing is the environment, and the CPC looking to go back to the 30 percent target was a non starter for them.

Add that and strategic voting and this result isn't all that surprising.

If O'Toole kept the national childcare program, kept the OIC and left the carbon tax and climate targets alone he likely wins imho.
 

Remius

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From speaking to many Liberal supporters, their reasons for voting Trudeau was right out to lunch
-Better the devil you know than the devil you don't
This used in most cases with incumbents. It’s why my MP keeps getting g elected despite being generally disliked.
-Can never trust the conservatives
This is on them. O’Tooles flip flop validated that. His Vaccine vagueness, Kenney etc all just reinforced it. Valid or not.
-Erin O'Toole is a white supremacist blah, blah (Literally had a lady explain to me thats why she was urging everyone not to vote him)
This is a new one. I haven’t heard it nor have I heard it from any liberal supporters I know.
-Look at what Harper/Mulroney did to the country
look at what Trudeau Sr did to our country. This very site is full of CPC supporters who constantly reference his father. Sun king, dauphin etc. This isn’t just LPC voters who do that.
-O'Toole will take away our health care system and go for cash
Again, he opened that door. He was certainly misquoted and the LPC used a false narrative but he managed to navigate it fairly well.
-Doug Ford made a mess so I won't vote O'Toole
Sure. People associate provincial politics with federal politics. Many are li key at the hip. In this case it was more Kenney than Ford. I suspect his association with Kenney did more damage than Ford could ever do. Remember Kathleen Wynn? Yeah so this is common on both sides.
-Cons are out to destroy the environment for profit
This stems from having no real climate plan for a long time. They have one now, reluctantly and has been criticized for not going far enough. So it takes time to establish legitimacy on climate and environment when then conservatives spent so long even acknowledging a problem. A problem a majority of Canadians especially young voters want to see action on.
-Cons only care for their rich corporate friends (this one or similar was VERY common)
And yet we see the same criticism of the LPC. Especially with Quebec companies. You even mentioned SNC.
thats the MIND SET I have an issue with. If people wouldn't vote conservative for whatever reason, their was better alternatives especially for the more left leaning.

People basically voted Trudeau back in for fear of a conservative government in my opinion
And how many people voted for Otoole for the exact same reason? And people did vote for alternatives.

Again you are blaming Liberal Voters and painting them all the same. They are not. If I had young kids I might have voted LPC for the child care system they were proposing. It was far better than O’toole’s in my mind. Maybe that could have been the one issue they chose to vote on. Just like gun owners voted on one issue as well. People vote for a variety of reasons. The CPC didn’t reach everyone they could have and reinforced a few things that made some people hesitant to vote their way.

The CPC needs to adjust their traverse sight dial a bit. I think O’toole is on the right track but it’s a work in progress.
 

Altair

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On childcare, there is a generation scarred from the election in 2006. Paul Martin had a national childcare program all ready to go, ready to sit down and deal with the provinces, but then there was an election and the CPC killed it.

To a lot of people, there was a strong feeling of deja vu. Another LPC PM with a national childcare program all ready to go, and another CPC candidate saying they would kill it.

There is also a generation scarred from 2011. The last time Canadians abandoned the Liberals for the NDP, the CPC was able to win a majority government, which makes people hesitant to do that again. So the NDP are not yet a viable alternative and a lot of people were scared about losing childcare to the CPC yet again.

And when it comes right down to it, when you ask the average Canadian whether they give a damn about Aga Khan, or WE, or blackface, or if they care about their childcare costs going from 2000 a month currently to 200 a month under the LPC, well, the pocketbook is going to win every time.
 

ArmyRick

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On childcare, there is a generation scarred from the election in 2006. Paul Martin had a national childcare program all ready to go, ready to sit down and deal with the provinces, but then there was an election and the CPC killed it.

To a lot of people, there was a strong feeling of deja vu. Another LPC PM with a national childcare program all ready to go, and another CPC candidate saying they would kill it.

There is also a generation scarred from 2011. The last time Canadians abandoned the Liberals for the NDP, the CPC was able to win a majority government, which makes people hesitant to do that again. So the NDP are not yet a viable alternative and a lot of people were scared about losing childcare to the CPC yet again.

And when it comes right down to it, when you ask the average Canadian whether they give a damn about Aga Khan, or WE, or blackface, or if they care about their childcare costs going from 2000 a month currently to 200 a month under the LPC, well, the pocketbook is going to win every time.
Pocketbook? How about a ridicolous ballooning debt?
 
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