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Canadian Federal Election 44 - Sep 2021

Brad Sallows

Army.ca Fixture
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910
People could choose from a menu of reasons to dislike Harper. He is conservative, which offends all the vehement anti-conservatives. He is introverted and low-drama, which offends those who need Hollywood mood affiliation (style over substance). He is competent and confident, which offends all the people who think their area of expertise should determine policy (eg. science, foreign affairs) or who think every voice needs to be heard before the decision maker decides.

Any low-key conservative-minded leader is going to push the first two buttons. Anyone who doesn't follow the preferred CoAs of the expert communities - never mind what happens when the CoAs are in conflict - will push the third.
 

dimsum

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
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1,087
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940
People could choose from a menu of reasons to dislike Harper. He is conservative, which offends all the vehement anti-conservatives. He is introverted and low-drama, which offends those who need Hollywood mood affiliation (style over substance). He is competent and confident, which offends all the people who think their area of expertise should determine policy (eg. science, foreign affairs) or who think every voice needs to be heard before the decision maker decides.

Any low-key conservative-minded leader is going to push the first two buttons. Anyone who doesn't follow the preferred CoAs of the expert communities - never mind what happens when the CoAs are in conflict - will push the third.
I don't think that all anti-conservatives would hate a conservative candidate. I would have been interested to know how Mackay would have done had he run.

As for the experts, isn't the whole point to listen to them since they are...well...the SMEs in their fields? You may not agree with them, and they might come into conflict with other experts in different fields, but that's (IMO) when the leader makes the decision and then explains why. Silence or "because I said so" doesn't really work with the public, but maybe "because X would cause Y, which we don't want, and would also negatively affect Z" might educate some of the populace on their decisions and maybe bring some trust.

To clarify, I voted for Harper when he ran. But I also think that his style wasn't really the best either.
 

ModlrMike

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I never go the whole "cold fish" thing. Both times I met Mr Harper in person he seemed quite warm and personable. Perhaps is was his perceived lack of excitablity which is a quality every leader should posses.
 

ModlrMike

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I don't think that all anti-conservatives would hate a conservative candidate. I would have been interested to know how Mackay would have done had he run.

As for the experts, isn't the whole point to listen to them since they are...well...the SMEs in their fields? You may not agree with them, and they might come into conflict with other experts in different fields, but that's (IMO) when the leader makes the decision and then explains why. Silence or "because I said so" doesn't really work with the public, but maybe "because X would cause Y, which we don't want, and would also negatively affect Z" might educate some of the populace on their decisions and maybe bring some trust.

To clarify, I voted for Harper when he ran. But I also think that his style wasn't really the best either.
The problem is the experts today are not giving advice, they're giving direction. Woe is he who doesn't act as they desire.
 

Halifax Tar

Army.ca Veteran
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394
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880
I don't think that all anti-conservatives would hate a conservative candidate. I would have been interested to know how Mackay would have done had he run.

As for the experts, isn't the whole point to listen to them since they are...well...the SMEs in their fields? You may not agree with them, and they might come into conflict with other experts in different fields, but that's (IMO) when the leader makes the decision and then explains why. Silence or "because I said so" doesn't really work with the public, but maybe "because X would cause Y, which we don't want, and would also negatively affect Z" might educate some of the populace on their decisions and maybe bring some trust.

To clarify, I voted for Harper when he ran. But I also think that his style wasn't really the best either.
Just like Snr NCOs we and they advise and provide information. The elected officials decide how to employ that information, if at all.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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Directing Staff
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748
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1,040
Mr. Harper's boy played both indoor and beach volleyball at a lot of the same Provincial Championship tournaments as my Daughter did. He was always personable and would always set up time for teams, and there were lots, to have him sit in on a teams photo if they wished. He was more then kind and personable anytime he was there....
 

QV

Army.ca Veteran
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218
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680
How dare the people who usually support the CPC election after election expect some payoff in line ahead of the people who only show up if everything is exactly to their taste?

"They", in the past couple of elections, were the people who got in a snit over social issues and "threw the chance away" then by not voting CPC. There is always a "they", I suppose.

Anyone inclined to prefer conservatives and frustrated that a chance is slipping away should remember this feeling next time they want to walk away.

The business of holding your nose, abstaining, voting "strategically", or voting for your local candidate because they are nice though you have reservations about the party might make you feel better but are all wastes of time.

1. Review party platforms and pay attention to the campaign (if not politics altogether);
2. Remember past behavior is the most reliable predictor of future behavior; and
3. Vote for the party you feel best suites your needs overall.

Voters will get the government they deserve.
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Relic
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3,465
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OK, having watched the (not very good) debate last night my money's on a Conservative Minority government.

Anyone want a piece of that action? :)


Is a Conservative minority government even possible?​


 

ModlrMike

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Without going over everything in the article, the most significant issue would be if the Liberals lose the popular vote, and win the second most number of seats. Convincing the public of their legitimacy would be difficult. Never underestimate the hubris of the current lot though.
 

Halifax Tar

Army.ca Veteran
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394
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Without going over everything in the article, the most significant issue would be if the Liberals lose the popular vote, and win the second most number of seats. Convincing the public of their legitimacy would be difficult. Never underestimate the hubris of the current lot though.

I know it erks people but a redistribution of seats is required in this country.

I think a Liberal loss of any type will trigger a leadership search for that party. Trust me the party leaders aren't blind to his evolution (devolution ?) from uniter to divider.
 

Brad Sallows

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
761
Points
910
As for the experts, isn't the whole point to listen to them since they are...well...the SMEs in their fields?

Yes. The same dynamic as commander and staff. And then when the commander decides, the staff executes and tries to make it work. In public service, they bitch to the media and obstruct implementation.
 

OldSolduer

Army.ca Legend
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1,394
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I think a Liberal loss of any type will trigger a leadership search for that party. Trust me the party leaders aren't blind to his evolution (devolution ?) from uniter to divider.
One can only hope Gerald Butts is tossed out with the fair haired pretend PM.
 

suffolkowner

Sr. Member
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OK, having watched the (not very good) debate last night my money's on a Conservative Minority government.

Anyone want a piece of that action? :)


Is a Conservative minority government even possible?​


This is the question I've been asking myself too. As the sitting PM, Trudeau will have the opportunity to form a government and will be able to count on NDP support. I don't know if public opinion on minority governments will have an impact or whether it has evolved since Harper's term. O'Toole will undoubtably have a more difficult time operating as a minority than Trudeau or Harper did
 

MilEME09

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
601
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940
This is the question I've been asking myself too. As the sitting PM, Trudeau will have the opportunity to form a government and will be able to count on NDP support. I don't know if public opinion on minority governments will have an impact or whether it has evolved since Harper's term. O'Toole will undoubtably have a more difficult time operating as a minority than Trudeau or Harper did
I think that will heavily depend on who forms the official opposition.
 

The Bread Guy

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Credit where due ...
The People's Party of Canada says it has removed its president of the Elgin Middlesex London riding association after a handful of gravel was thrown at Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau during a campaign stop in London, Ont., earlier this week.

PPC spokesman Martin Masse says the party removed Shane Marshall from the post after it viewed clips of the small stones thrown at Trudeau posted to social media.

Masse says the party hasn't looked into the allegations itself and is leaving it up to police to investigate ...
 

Navy_Pete

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Yes. The same dynamic as commander and staff. And then when the commander decides, the staff executes and tries to make it work. In public service, they bitch to the media and obstruct implementation.
Right, because there is no bitching and complaining if a commander decides to override staff without explaining anything. Unless it's an emergency, that doesn't really work even in the military.

Generally there wasn't very much public complaints about Harper by the public service about policy considering the level of internal discontent; even when the head of StatsCan resigned over the government cancelling the mandatory census he specifically didn't comment. Cuts to staffing levels, wages, and benefits came through the union, which is exactly how it's supposed to work when it affects their jobs.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/statscan-head-quits-over-census-dispute-1.866937
 
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