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Canadian Federal Election 44 - Sep 2021

Altair

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I may be mistaken but I do believe he had a majority when he/they ran on that....


By golly I think you're right!



Avoid Spider Man GIF

I agree. But I'm not living in 2015.

I'm living in 2021. Who is supporting electoral reform NOW?

Nobody but the NDP?

Okay, I rest my case.
 

mariomike

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I'm not living in 2015.

For those still stuck in that bygone era, 53 pages of it,

 

Halifax Tar

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I agree. But I'm not living in 2015.

I'm living in 2021. Who is supporting electoral reform NOW?

Nobody but the NDP?

Okay, I rest my case.

How about 2020 ?

Perhaps the parties don't... Your case is not at rest.

What do the people say ?

 

Altair

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How about 2020 ?

Perhaps the parties don't... Your case is not at rest.

What do the people say ?

Its completely at rest. Despite a brief aberration in 2015 where the LPC ran on it, no political party until the 4th place party in parliament wants it.

Again, if it was JUST the LPC against it, I would have hope. But are you suggesting that if the CPC won we would see them bring in electoral reform?

Don't piss on my head and call it rain.

The top two parties in Canada don't want it, regardless of the voters feelings on the subject, so unless those voters are willing to vote for the NDP enough that they win a majority government then nothing is going to happen. And I don't see that happening.
 

Halifax Tar

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Its completely at rest. Despite a brief aberration in 2015 where the LPC ran on it, no political party until the 4th place party in parliament wants it.

Again, if it was JUST the LPC against it, I would have hope. But are you suggesting that if the CPC won we would see them bring in electoral reform?

Don't piss on my head and call it rain.

The top two parties in Canada don't want it, regardless of the voters feelings on the subject, so unless those voters are willing to vote for the NDP enough that they win a majority government then nothing is going to happen. And I don't see that happening.

Just because its not on a platform does not meant its not a topic. In fact I think it really shows the arrogance of our 2 main parties.

Every poll I can find shows Canadians want a better electoral system. The Liberal party ran on that and forgot it existed it when the found what was wanted wouldn't suit them best. So what you have is one party essentially our right admitting they are more interested in what's best for them than the country as a whole.

Trying to absolve the Liberals of sin because the Cons don have it on their platform is simple parlor games.
 

Altair

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Just because its not on a platform does not meant its not a topic. In fact I think it really shows the arrogance of our 2 main parties.

Every poll I can find shows Canadians want a better electoral system. The Liberal party ran on that and forgot it existed it when the found what was wanted wouldn't suit them best. So what you have is one party essentially our right admitting they are more interested in what's best for them than the country as a whole.

Trying to absolve the Liberals of sin because the Cons don have it on their platform is simple parlor games.
Both are guilty.

The LPC, the CPC, the BQ, they are all guilty.

Since all of them are standing in the way of electoral reform means I don't place the blame on one party in particular. The LPC in 2015, fine, granted, they are more guilty than most. Since then, in the 2 elections since they are all equally guilty and as such it will never happen. The NDP are the next best chance at electoral reform and they have all of 26 seats in parliament.
 

Halifax Tar

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Both are guilty.

The LPC, the CPC, the BQ, they are all guilty.

Since all of them are standing in the way of electoral reform means I don't place the blame on one party in particular. The LPC in 2015, fine, granted, they are more guilty than most. Since then, in the 2 elections since they are all equally guilty and as such it will never happen. The NDP are the next best chance at electoral reform and they have all of 26 seats in parliament.

No 1 party stood in the way of electoral reform. With a majority in parliament.

They other two are guilty of it being absent on their platforms. Hell one of them is a regional obstructionist party who never has a hope in hell of forming government, the other is the BQ ;) See what I did there ?
 

Altair

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No 1 party stood in the way of electoral reform. With a majority in parliament.
I'll give you that.
They other two are guilty of it being absent on their platforms.

Old, from 2018, but nothing said on the subject since.

The Conservative Party believes the discussion of possible changes to the electoral system is valuable in a healthy democracy. In reviewing options for electoral reform, we believe the government should not endorse any new electoral system that will weaken the link between Members of Parliament and their constituents, that will create unmanageably large ridings, or that will strengthen the control of the party machinery over individual Members of Parliament. 4 A national referendum must be held prior to implementing any future electoral reform proposal.
So last word from them they don't want MMP or PR.

I doubt they want ranked ballot. Neither are they running on changing the electoral system. So I think its fair to say they are not going to change anything if they win


Hell one of them is a regional obstructionist party who never has a hope in hell of forming government, the other is the BQ ;) See what I did there ?
I do, I got a chuckle.

Still doesn't change the fact that electoral reform is dead in this country and I've come to accept that.
 

Brad Sallows

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The NDP is equally guilty of selfish posturing. Where they would benefit (federally), they might like a particular kind of reform. Where they would not benefit (eg. provincially in BC), they are just as status quo as everyone else.
 

Altair

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The NDP is equally guilty of selfish posturing. Where they would benefit (federally), they might like a particular kind of reform. Where they would not benefit (eg. provincially in BC), they are just as status quo as everyone else.
It is true.

Which is why I said they are the next best hope, not next best sure thing.

But looking through the options

LPC-No hope

CPC-No hope

BQ- No hope for multiple reasons

NDP- Some hope.

Would a NDP elected using FPTP then change the system that got them into power? Questionable.

I think the CAQ government in Quebec is a good example of what tends to happen.

The Quebec government will not hold a referendum in 2022 on whether to reform the province's electoral system, the minister in charge of the file said Wednesday.

The electoral reform bill, Bill 39, proposes moving Quebec from its current first-past-the-post system to a mixed-member proportional representation system.

But it also stipulates that before the new electoral system can be implemented, the public needs to approve it in a referendum — to be held at the same time as the 2022 provincial election.

LeBel blamed the pandemic for scotching that plan. "We'll see what the public health situation is in September," she said.
 

The Bread Guy

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Interesting tidbit from the bought-and-paid-for media ...
The Conservative Party has identified 13 federal ridings where they suspect their candidates were targeted by foreign influence campaigns in the recent federal election, Global News has learned.
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The party was briefed by Canada’s two main intelligence agencies about potential foreign interventions against their candidates during the election, two party sources told Global News.

There is no smoking gun. But a senior party source and independent disinformation researchers suspect the Conservatives’ stance on China’s Communist regime made them a target.

“It certainly looks like there was some kind of orchestrated campaign by some entity that was probably not a (Canadian) political party,” said the source ...

... Some of the 13 ridings identified by its officials could only be charitably described as long shots – such as Mississauga Centre, where Liberal cabinet minister Omar Alghabra won with 54 per cent of the vote ... The alleged foreign interference may not have tipped the scales against the Conservatives, but many of the ridings identified by the party were a lot closer than Mississauga Centre – like Richmond Centre, where incumbent Alice Wong lost by fewer than 1,000 votes, or Steveston-Richmond East, where incumbent Kenny Chiu lost by roughly 3,500 votes ... The other ridings identified by the party are Coquitlam-Port Coquitlam and Fleetwood-Port Kells in British Columbia, and Markham-Stouffville, Markham-Unionville, Richmond Hill, Willowdale, Don Valley North, Scarborough-Agincourt, Aurora-Oak Ridges-Richmond Hill, and Newmarket-Aurora in Ontario ...
 

The Bread Guy

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More from the editorial board of the bought-and-paid-for Globe & Mail (archived link if previous link doesn't work for you)
... What is indisputable is that there was a concerted effort, using a social-media platform beholden to Beijing, to discourage people from voting for a Canadian MP whose positions were unpopular with Beijing.

To date, the case has barely caused a ripple in Ottawa. That has to change. This should not be a partisan issue. The Trudeau government needs to let Parliament investigate what happened, and take steps to block foreign meddling in Canadian elections.

One very good place to start would be with the resurrection of Mr. Chiu’s foreign influence registry. It should become law, and soon. As the McGill researchers wrote, “disinformation campaigns and their potential to manipulate diaspora communities could generate waves that would drown Canada’s democracy.”
 

Altair

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I'd like to think that discussing the Prime Minister trying to score political points on the back of the Freedom Convoy on the world stage is relatable but we can definitely bring it back to an in Canada discussion.

I look forward to hearing how supporting an anti-immigration party is different when you do it; the Liberal thread perhaps?
There are 2 key differences

1. There are different levels of anti immigration. The PPC calls for reduced immigration. It does not differentiate by race or creed. The AfD are specifically targeting Muslims.

2. Under FPTP, my vote was in no way shape or form going to lead to a PPC MP. The LPC candidate in my riding won by 20 percentage points. My vote didn't matter. Unlike in Germany and Europe, which uses PR. There, every vote matters. Every bit of support AfD gets leads to them having more MPs. I get to goof around under FPTP because my vote doesn't mean anything. That is not true for those voting AfD. If Canada adopted any form of PR I would not for a second consider voting PPC.
 

Jarnhamar

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There are 2 key differences
Thanks for the reply

1. There are different levels of anti immigration. The PPC calls for reduced immigration. It does not differentiate by race or creed. The AfD are specifically targeting Muslims.

Anti-immigration seems like an open and shut definition to me. Maybe the PPC was just playing fast and loose with words though. I see what you mean with AdFs more hardline approach.

2. Under FPTP, my vote was in no way shape or form going to lead to a PPC MP. The LPC candidate in my riding won by 20 percentage points. My vote didn't matter. Unlike in Germany and Europe, which uses PR. There, every vote matters. Every bit of support AfD gets leads to them having more MPs. I get to goof around under FPTP because my vote doesn't mean anything. That is not true for those voting AfD. If Canada adopted any form of PR I would not for a second consider voting PPC.
Thanks for the explination. Using this logic though, you could just as easily vote for a party that's racist, anti-Muslim or even the KKK if the party isn't likely to win?
 

Altair

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Thanks for the reply
I'll reply so long as my ice does not get thinner.
Anti-immigration seems like an open and shut definition to me. Maybe the PPC was just playing fast and loose with words though. I see what you mean with AdFs more hardline approach.
There are different levels of it however. The conservative party in the UK is slightly anti immigration, the US republican Party a bit more so, the PPC more than the Republican party and then you have the extremist view of it in the AfD.
Thanks for the explination. Using this logic though, you could just as easily vote for a party that's racist, anti-Muslim or even the KKK if the party isn't likely to win?
If my vote doesn't matter, I could vote for anyone. If my vote does matter I vote for what I support. Me voting for the PPC isn't me supporting the PPC, it's me mocking FPTP
 

Brad Sallows

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1. There are different levels of anti immigration. The PPC calls for reduced immigration. It does not differentiate by race or creed.

That's not anti-immigration. That's still pro-immigration. Anti-immigration is "none". There's no arbitrary number of immigrants above which a policy is "pro-" and below is "anti-".
 

Altair

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That's not anti-immigration. That's still pro-immigration. Anti-immigration is "none". There's no arbitrary number of immigrants above which a policy is "pro-" and below is "anti-".
What do you call a party that says we will take immigrants so long as the immigrant is not muslim?

Because that's what the AfD is so call it whatever you like.
 

Fishbone Jones

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Bit of a tangent, but how many were aware that trudeau's new coalition partner, Singh, is also a member of WEF? Now, I'm left wondering whether this pairing of parties was just singh's or trudeau's idea or was it schemed up behind closed doors by Schwab, with input from trudeau, singh and freeland?
 

Remius

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Bit of a tangent, but how many were aware that trudeau's new coalition partner, Singh, is also a member of WEF? Now, I'm left wondering whether this pairing of parties was just singh's or trudeau's idea or was it schemed up behind closed doors by Schwab, with input from trudeau, singh and freeland?
Doubtful.


I believe her.
 
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