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Canadian Combat Action Badge - Now A Dead Idea (Merged Threads)

X-mo-1979 said:
Thanks for the canforgen Journeyman.
Dead issue= dead topic?
Or shall we discuss why we shouldn't have canceled it/ ;D

Go back and read through the thread. The discussion for and against has already taken place, ergo the reason(s) for cancelling. Quit trying to split hairs and make a fuss over a dead issue.

Milnet.ca Staff
 
recceguy said:
Go back and read through the thread. The discussion for and against has already taken place, ergo the reason(s) for cancelling. Quit trying to split hairs and make a fuss over a dead issue.

Milnet.ca Staff

Does this include expanding on my Pirate hat idea?  :piper:

dileas

tess
 
the 48th regulator said:
Does this include expanding on my Pirate hat idea?  :piper:

dileas

tess

I like the pirate hat idea...  I'd wear that... Not to signify anything; just for fun.
 
the 48th regulator said:
Does this include expanding on my Pirate hat idea?  :piper:

dileas

tess

Pirates are traditionally associated with the sea; granting our servicemembers the right (and responsibility) to wear pirate hats would be Navy-centric and thus not respond to the need for a CF-common gesture of appreciation.

Similarly, any such recognition would have to be uniquely Canadian in its design and scope.


Therefore, the new recognition should take the form of a small sample of BC Bud, soaked in Quebec maple syrup, and carried in a sealskin pouch.
 
dapaterson said:
Therefore, the new recognition should take the form of a Beavertail, topped with a small sample of BC Bud, soaked in Quebec maple syrup, and carried in a sealskin pouch.
 
Sequentially, I think it would be BC Bud followed by a Beavertail topped with maple syrup.
 
CANFORGEN 092/09 VCDS 010/09 151257Z MAY 09
COMBAT ACTION BADGE
UNCLASSIFIED



FOLLOWING CONSULTATION WITH SAILORS, SOLDIERS, AIRMEN AND AIRWOMEN, ARMED FORCES COUNCIL HAS DECIDED NOT TO PROCEED WITH THE DEVELOPMENT AND IMPLEMENTATION OF A COMBAT ACTION BADGE


SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENTS HAVE BEEN MADE OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS TO RECOGNIZE MILITARY PERSONNEL FOR THEIR DEVOTION TO DUTY, COURAGE AND LEADERSHIP IN THE MILITARY PROFESSION. ACCORDINGLY IT HAS BEEN DECIDED NOT TO PURSUE THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INSIGNIA SIGNIFYING COMBAT INVOLVEMENT


SIGNED BY W. NATYNCZYK, CDS
 
Jack, M'Boyo,

Already covered http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/43829/post-842739.html#msg842739

We have moved on to Pirate hats and beaver tails.

dileas

tess
 
recceguy said:
.........and the death spiral begins ::)

Milnet.ca Staff

Geesh,

I know eh,

Next thing you know someone will be giving us the picture and update when Uncle Hillier promised it...

No back to our daily scheduled thread.

But you see folks, with the pirate hat, like the one I had shown, you can actually colour code the feathers to indicate the area of operation, something akin tot he medal's ribbons and stuff.

dileas

tess

 
Ummm.... so the Indian's feather headdress would suggest / affirm that he is an American Indian - been to a lot of neat interesting places - several times over ???
 
...and back on topic, folks...

Brihard said:
...There is no recognition or honour that differentiates those who have served in combat from those who haven't. Besides, in most cases, the majority of people whose opinions matter are going to know anyway.

Unless their actions were particularly noteworthy and there are various tools to recognize this: MID, MCV, MSM, etc...

Brihard said:
...The guys who've been in the real scrapes know it, the rest of us know it, and not device on a uniform can either add to or take away from what they've been through.

Agree wholeheartedly.

G2G
 
geo said:
Ummm.... so the Indian's feather headdress would suggest / affirm that he is an American Indian - been to a lot of neat interesting places - several times over ???

Well actually,

The Apaches wore a headband, as can be seen by Geronimo and his cohorts (WHo definitely saw combat), as some pirates have been known to do...

Comics_geronimo_and_his_apache_murderers.jpg



Apache_chieff_Geronimo_%28right%29_and_his_warriors_in_1886.jpg


See folks,

If Geo can get into the swing of things, so can you!!

product-enlarged.jpg
 


dileas

tess

 
Looking at the criteria for the US CIB, it seems we've just saved our military bureaucracy about a million man days figuring out who would, would not be eligible for one of these things. Lordy....

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/badges/CombatInfantrymanBadges.htm

COMBAT INFANTRYMAN BADGES

I. DESCRIPTION: A silver and enamel badge 1 inch in height and 3 inches in width, consisting of an infantry musket on a light blue bar with a silver border, on and over an elliptical oak wreath. Stars are added at the top of the wreath to indicate subsequent awards; one star for the second award, two stars for the third award and three stars for the fourth award.



II. SYMBOLISM: The bar is blue, the color associated with the Infantry branch. The musket is adapted from the Infantry insignia of branch and represents the first official U.S. shoulder arm, the 1795 model Springfield Arsenal musket. It was adopted as the official Infantry branch insignia in 1924. The oak symbolizes steadfastness, strength and loyalty.



III. AWARD ELIGIBILITY:



    a.  There are basically three requirements for award of the CIB.  The Soldier must be an Infantryman satisfactorily performing Infantry duties, must be assigned to an Infantry unit during such time as the unit is engaged in active ground combat, and must actively participate in such ground combat.



    b.  The specific eligibility criteria for the CIB require that:

    (1)  A Soldier must be an Army Infantry or Special Forces officer (SSI 11 or 18) in the grade of Colonel or below, or an Army Enlisted Soldier or Warrant Officer with an Infantry or Special Forces MOS, who subsequent to 6 December 1941 has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an Infantry, Ranger or Special Forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat.  Eligibility for Special Forces personnel in Military Occupational Specialties (MOS) 18B, 18E, 18F, and 18Z (less Special Forces Medical Sergeant) accrues from 20 December 1989.  Retroactive awards for Special Forces personnel are not authorized prior to 20 December 1989. 

    (2)  A recipient must be personally present and under hostile fire while serving in an assigned Infantry or Special Forces primary duty, in a unit actively engaged in ground combat with the enemy.  The unit in question can be of any size smaller than brigade. 

    (3)  Personnel with other than an Infantry or Special Forces MOS are not eligible, regardless of the circumstances.  The Infantry or Special Forces SSI or MOS does not necessarily have to be the Soldier’s primary specialty, as long as the Soldier has been properly trained in infantry or special forces tactics, possesses the appropriate skill code, and is serving in that specialty when engaged in active ground combat as described above.  Commanders are not authorized to make any exceptions to this policy.

    (4)  Awards will not be made to General Officers or to members of headquarters companies of units larger in size than brigade.

    (5)  On or after 18 September 2001:
          (a) A Soldier must be an Army Infantry or special forces officer (SSI 11 or 18) in the grade of Colonel or below, or an Army Enlisted Soldier or Warrant Officer with an Infantry or Special Forces MOS, who has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an infantry, ranger or special forces unit of brigade, regimental or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires.

          (b) A Soldier must be personally present and under fire while serving in an assigned Infantry or Special Forces primary duty, in a unit engaged in active ground combat to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires.  Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDS), Vehicle-Borne IEDS (VBIEDS) and the like are direct fire weapons.  While no fixed, qualifying distance from an explosion of these devices can be established, commanders should consider the entirety of the combat situation when considering award of the CIB.

          (c) Soldiers possessing MOS of 18D (Special Forces Medical Sergeant) who satisfactorily perform Special Forces duties while assigned or attached to a Special Forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit is engaged in active ground combat may be awarded the CIB.  These Soldiers must have been personally present and engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires.  Retroactive awards under these criteria are not authorized for service prior to 18 September 2001.

          (d) Those Soldiers possessing MOS of 18D who qualify for award of the Combat Medical Badge (CMB) from 18 September 2001 to the 3 June 2005, will remain qualified for the badge.  Upon request any such soldier may be awarded the CIB instead of the CMB.  In such instances, the Soldier must submit a request through the chain of command to the CG, U.S. Army Human Resources Command, ATTN:  AHRC-PDO-PA, 200 Stovall Street, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471 for conversion of the CMB to the CIB.

          (e) Service members from the other U.S. Armed Forces and foreign military (Infantry and Special Forces equivalents) assigned or attached as a member of a U.S. Army Infantry or Special Forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size may be considered for award of the CIB.  All basic requirements as listed above must be met.  Retroactive awards under these criteria are not authorized for service prior to 18 September 2001.



    c.  The CIB is authorized for award for the following qualifying wars, conflicts, and operations:



            (1) World War II (7 December 1941 to 3 September 1945).

            (2) The Korean War (27 June 1950 to 27 July 1953).

            (3) Republic of Vietnam Conflict (2 March 1961 to 28 March 1973), combined with qualifying service in Laos (19 April 1961 to 6 October 1962).

            (4) Dominican Republic (28 April 1965 to 1 September 1966).

            (5) Korea on the DMZ (4 January 1969 to 31 March 1994).

            (6) El Salvador (1 January 1981 to 1 February 1992).

            (7) Grenada (23 October to 21 November 1983).

            (8) Joint Security Area, Panmunjom, Korea (23 November 1984).

            (9) Panama (20 December 1989 to 31 January 1990).

            (10) Southwest Asia Conflict (17 January to 11 April 1991).

            (11) Somalia (5 June 1992 to 31 March 1994).

            (12) Afghanistan (Operation Enduring Freedom, 5 December 2001 to a date to be determined).

            (13) Iraq (Operation Enduring Freedom, 19 March 2003 to a date to be determined).



    d.  The special provision authorized for the War on Terrorism is listed in this paragraph.  The CIB may be awarded to recognize those U.S. Army Infantry and Special Forces Soldiers embedded in formed Afghan National Army or Iraqi Infantry/Special Force units, or Iraqi specialized Infantry type units, of brigade, regimental or smaller size, or assigned as advisors to a foreign Infantry/Special Forces comparable to the above Infantry units, as tactical advisors, trainers or performing liaison duties, during the time that the supported Infantry/Special Force unit engages in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires.  Qualified Soldiers must have been personally present and participated in the combat operations.



    e.  The special provisions authorized for the Vietnam Conflict, Laos, and Korea on the DMZ are outlined below. 



            (1) During the Vietnam Conflict, any officer whose basic branch is other than Infantry who, under appropriate orders, has commanded a line Infantry (other than a headquarters unit) unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size for at least 30 consecutive days is deemed to have been detailed in Infantry and is eligible for award of the CIB notwithstanding absence of a written directive detailing that Soldier in the Infantry, provided all other requirements for the award have been met.  Orders directing the officer to assume command will be confirmed in writing at the earliest practicable date. 



            (a) In addition, any Officer, Warrant Officer, or Enlisted Soldier whose branch is other than Infantry, who under appropriate orders was assigned to advise a unit listed in (c) and (d) below or was assigned as a member of a White Star Mobile Training Team or a member of MAAG-Laos as indicated in (2)(a) and (b) below will be eligible for award of the CIB provided all other requirements have been met.

            (b) After 1 December 1967, for service in the Republic of Vietnam, Noncommissioned Officers serving as Command Sergeants Major of infantry Battalions and brigades for periods of at least 30 consecutive days in a combat zone are eligible for award of the CIB provided all other requirements have been met.

            (c) Subsequent to 1 March 1961, a Soldier must have been:

            1.  Assigned as advisor to an Infantry unit, Ranger unit, Infantry-type unit of the civil guard of regimental or smaller size, and/or Infantry-type unit of the self-defense corps unit of regimental or smaller size of the Vietnamese government during any period such unit was engaged in actual ground combat.

            2.  Assigned as advisor of an irregular force comparable to the above Infantry units under similar conditions.

            3.  Personally present and under fire while serving in an assigned primary duty as a member of a tactical advisory team while the unit participated in ground combat.

            (d) Subsequent to 24 May 1965, to qualify for the CIB, personnel serving in U.S. units must meet the requirements of b(1), above.  Individuals who performed liaison duties with the Royal Thai Army or the Army of the Republic of Korea combat units in Vietnam are eligible for award of the badge provided they meet all other requirements.



            (2) In Laos from 19 April 1961 to 6 October 1962, a Soldier must have been:

            (a) Assigned as a member of a White Star Mobile Training Team while the team was attached to or working with a unit of regimental (groupment mobile) or smaller size of Forces Armee du Royaume (FAR) , or with irregular type forces of regimental or smaller size.

            (b) A member of MAAG-Laos assigned as an advisor to a region or zone of FAR, or while serving with irregular type forces of regimental or smaller size.

            (c) Personally under hostile fire while assigned as specified in (a) and (b) above.



            (3) In Korea on the DMZ.  The special requirements for award of the CIB for service in the Republic of Korea are rescinded.  Army veterans and service members who served in Korea on or after 28 July 1953 and meet the criteria for award of the CIB outlined in paragraph 8-6c, may submit an application (to include supporting documentation) for award of the CIB to USA HRC, ATTN: AHRC-PDO-PA, 200 Stovall Street, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471.  Retroactive awards under these criteria are not authorized for service prior to 29 July 1953.



            f.  Second and third awards of the CIB are indicated by superimposing 1 and 2 stars respectively, centered at the top of the badge between the points of the oak wreath.  To date, a separate award of the CIB has been authorized for qualified Soldiers in the following qualifying periods:
            (1) World War II (7 December 1941 to 3 September 1945).

            (2) The Korean Conflict (27 June 1950 to 27 July 1953).

            (3) The Republic of Vietnam Conflict.  Service in the Republic of Vietnam Conflict (2 March 1961 to 28 March 1973) combined with qualifying service in Laos; Dominican Republic; Korea on the DMZ; El Salvador; Grenada; Joint Security Area, Panmunjom, Korea; Panama; Southwest Asia Conflict; and Somalia, regardless of whether a Soldier has served one or multiple tours in any or all of these areas.  The Republic of Vietnam Conflict Era officially terminated on 10 March 1995.

            (4) War on Terrorism (Afghanistan, Operation ENDURING FREEDOM) and (Iraq, Operation IRAQI REEDOM).



            g.  Subsequent awards of the CIB are not authorized for the same qualifying period, as outlined above.  The CIB may be awarded by the following individuals:

            (1) Current awards.  These awards may be awarded by USA HRC, ATTN:  AHRC-PDP-A and Army commanders in the grade of 0-6 and above.

            (2) Retroactive awards of the CIB.  These awards may be awarded by USA HRC, ATTN: AHRC-PDP-A to active duty Soldiers and Reserve Component Soldiers.  Applications for retroactive award will be forwarded through command channels to USA HRC, ATTN: AHRC-PDP-A, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471.  Retirees and veterans should address their application to the National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, MO 63132-5100.  Retroactive award of the CIB is authorized for time periods specified above to fully qualified individuals.  Such awards will not be made except where evidence of injustice is presented.



IV. DATE APPROVED: The Combat Infantryman Badge was approved by the Secretary of War on 7 October 1943 and announced in War Department Circular 269 dated 27 October 1943. On 8 February 1952, the Chief of Staff, Army, approved a proposal to add stars to the Combat Infantryman Badge to indicate award of the badge in separate wars. Under this change in policy, the badge was no longer limited to a one-time award, but could now be awarded to eligible individuals for each war in which they participated.  The policy was expanded to permit award to Command Sergeants Major of infantry battalions or brigades, effective 1 December 1967.  On 11 February 2005, the Chief of Staff, Army, approved changes to the CIB policy.  Further changes were approved by the Assistant Secretary of the Army (Manpower and Reserve Affairs) on 24 June 2008.



V. SUBDUED BADGES: Subdued badges are authorized in metal and cloth. The metal badge has a black finish. The cloth badge has olive green base cloth with the rifle, wreath, stars and border of the bar embroidered in black.



VI. MINIATURE BADGES: A dress miniature badge, 1 1/4 inches in length is authorized for wear on the mess uniforms. A miniature badge, 1 3/4 inches is also authorized in lieu of the regular size badge.
 
I'll chime in for a tad.

As a member of the Australian Army, I have an ACB (Army Combat Badge) earned on my tour of Iraq in 2006-2007.

We have two types, the ACB, and ICB (Infantry Combat Badge), both have the same criteria, but one is Corps specific, and the other is for all other Corps. One can google these for the criteria.

Its too bad the CF could not follow the principles of the Australian badge, rather than the three coloured debate for such. Too complicated. Ours go back to cover Viet Nam and all other Ops in warlike conditions, but it may go as far back as Korea. Not an issue ensuring all get their's too, and this is announced through the RSL organisations, and the media. Veterans or their families are encouraged to apply. Currently a new Korea medal has been approved for Korean War Vets, and this is 2009.

Anyways, I am disappointed the CF has ceased the possible implementation of a badge. As for bling, its a tiny insigna worn above your medals, and there is a mini for Mess Kit. I dont even refer to such an award as bling in the first place, however the cultures between our Defence Forces are different.

When I see other Vets who have not earned their badge, yet have operational medals, I feel nothing but admiration for them, for they did their bit in the cogs of an operational environment, wheter it be in the Q Store in Kuwait, or as a RFN in a rifle section in Afghanistan. All equals, thats how I see it.

OWDU

EDITed for stupid spelling mistakes....
 
jacksparrow said:
Jack Harris, the NDP's defence critic, said the Canadian Forces should proceed with the awarding of the badge and said it is puzzling that the military had proceeded so far along with the insignia, only to cancel it. "Internally, they were satisfied that the award process was straightforward and there"
Just to be clear, is the Honourable Mr. Harris suggeting that the military should go against its own findings, including feedback from the CF itself?  To what purpose would this be done?  Sometimes I wish that politicians would ask the smart questions, and not ask questions that appear to be grandstanding for public attention.
 
Midnight Rambler said:
Just to be clear, is the Honourable Mr. Harris suggeting that the military should go against its own findings, including feedback from the CF itself?  To what purpose would this be done?  Sometimes I wish that politicians would ask the smart questions, and not ask questions that appear to be grandstanding for public attention.

I guess you'll have to ask him that one. My post was a quote from a news source
 
Midnight Rambler said:
Just to be clear, is the Honourable Mr. Harris suggesting that the military should go against its own findings, including feedback from the CF itself?

I think he is probably suggesting that all decisions pertaining to the military are wrong despite studies, findings, and logic.  Personally I am surprised that the NDP would support any military accoutrement short of complete disbandment.  The easiest way to be a critic is to adamantly disagree with everything. 
 
I thought there was a CANFORGEN which stated that this was dead idea  ???

EDITED TO ADD....


Found the CANFORGEN back on page 8.
 
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