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Canada's GG "apologizes to Rwanda for Canada's inaction during genocide"

SeanNewman

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Milnews,

Thanks for that.  From now on I will just PM you a link if I find it and allow one point of control  ;D
 

Edward Campbell

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Petamocto said:
Milnews,

Thanks for that.  From now on I will just PM you a link if I find it and allow one point of control  ;D


There are good, sound, legal reasons for this. Please see here.

The site's owner, Mike Bobbitt takes considerable, personal risks when he allows us to post fairly freely here and he can explain to you that he has, in the past, been threatened with legal action when a member posted material from another source here.

I ask all members, new and old, to refresh themselves with and follow the 'rules' in the stickied threads in Milnet.ca Admin, thereby not helping to mess up a good thing.
 

Rifleman62

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One could inquire about the nationality of the General at the UN who did not act on Dallaire`s warnings...

Since nobody picked up on this, was it the same guy that it is rumored failed his Coy Comd crse, but was passed anyway because of his"ethnicity" He was a good "friend" of Gen D, and even a personal phone call to New York, where he was the head of UN military ops, by Gen D, pleading for support, failed. He went on to big things, and even backed up the PM, and said it was his fault and the CFs that the PM could not attend a funeral. Great guy. Shows what promotion quotas does to a profession.


I'm with you - tired of Canada apologizing for everything.  The way they keep going we will be apologizing for the crucification of Christ.

"Sorry" and "Love" are the two cheapest words in the dictionary. They are as overused as a word beginning with the letter "F". They have no meaning anymore.
How many times have you read after a tragedy, the guilty party was"sorry"?  How many times do you hear some say "love this ..." ?

Everytime I hear someone (store clerk, someone on the telephone, etc), say the word "sorry", I tell them to quit apologising for nothing, because it is: so Canadian!
In my experience, nobody says the word"sorry" as much as Canadians.

My personal thing. I am sure people think I am nuts.

Sorry if you think that. Sorry if this post is off topic. Sorry you wasted your valuable time reading this. Sorry for the wasted bandwidth.
 

mariomike

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Rifleman62 said:
"Sorry" and "Love" are the two cheapest words in the dictionary. They are as overused as a word beginning with the letter "F". They have no meaning anymore.

That last one used to be a word you would only think ( in mixed company ), or yell out a car window.
 

Journeyman

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Rifleman62 said:
Everytime I hear someone .....say the word "sorry", I tell them to quit apologising for nothing
My personal beef with "I'm sorry" is with people who think it means the same thing as "I apologize." Use them interchangeably at a funeral to see my point.

With regret and acceptance of responsibility being different things entirely, perhaps the GG actually meant "sorry" and not "apologies"
 

BKells

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recceguy said:
I'm tired of Canada standing on the world stage like a whipped schoolboy, hat in hand, and apologising for whatever the flavour of the day is (Rwanda, UN inaction, global warming, earthquakes in Antactia, not giving billions to Bono's favourite charity of the day, whatever)

Got any actual instances of Canada issuing an apology, other than your rhetoric? Canada is hardly apologising for Global warming, it's doing everything it can to stop international efforts towards a climate change agreement. Where is Antactia? Did you mean Antarctica? We apologised for earthquakes there? And when did we apologise for not giving millions to Bono's favourite charity? That one I know is surely rhetorical flourish, but Canada atually does contribute a fair amount of ODA so it's hardly apologising.

So, your premise is that Canada is too apologetic, however this is not actually supported by any empirical evidence.

recceguy said:
We have nothing to apologise for and as much as I respect the GG, I'm offended she feels the need to tell the world I didn't do something they think I should've. Especially when it's the same self serving jackasses that created the situation in the first place.

Whether she actually made an apology is open to interpretation. However, don't think that we don't have anything to apologise for. As many people on these forums would agree, Canada is a principal power. We're a top-tier country in the international status hierarchy. We're in the G8, we're one of the most capable military powers in NATO, top 5 in UNDP's HDI, etc. Well being a principal power means taking a share of responsibility for maintaining international peace and security. Isn't that what we're doing in Afghanistan? Removing a terrorist regime, and then remaining for the medium-term to ensure a transition to a stable government, not allowing it to descend into a failed state like Somalia.

Well, as one of the top-10 countries in the world, we do have a burden of responsibility for inaction during the Rwandan genocide. 800,000 people were slaughtered in 100 days. That's a faster rate of killing than the Holocaust. And for doing next to nothing about it, Canada (and the rest of the major and principal powers) does have a level of responsibility for its inaction and allowing it to go on so long.

Do you sincerely feel that capable countries do not have a responsibility to intervene during such atrocities? Do you feel that the major and principal powers of the world do not need to take proactive measures to insure stability of the international order? That's fine. That's your opinion, and in that case then no, you probably do not think Canada has anything to apologise for.

But as someone who feels that Canada is a strong country that projects its values and interests abroad, and is able to act autonomously when required, I welcome the GG statement (whether it be an apology or not).
 

Fishbone Jones

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Junius said:
Got any actual instances of Canada issuing an apology, other than your rhetoric? Canada is hardly apologising for Global warming, it's doing everything it can to stop international efforts towards a climate change agreement. Where is Antactia? Did you mean Antarctica? We apologised for earthquakes there? And when did we apologise for not giving millions to Bono's favourite charity? That one I know is surely rhetorical flourish, but Canada atually does contribute a fair amount of ODA so it's hardly apologising.

So, your premise is that Canada is too apologetic, however this is not actually supported by any empirical evidence.
You seem to be the only one to miss the over the top sarcasm in my examples. Whatever.

Junius said:
Whether she actually made an apology is open to interpretation. However, don't think that we don't have anything to apologise for. As many people on these forums would agree, Canada is a principal power. We're a top-tier country in the international status hierarchy. We're in the G8, we're one of the most capable military powers in NATO, top 5 in UNDP's HDI, etc. Well being a principal power means taking a share of responsibility for maintaining international peace and security. Isn't that what we're doing in Afghanistan? Removing a terrorist regime, and then remaining for the medium-term to ensure a transition to a stable government, not allowing it to descend into a failed state like Somalia.

Well, as one of the top-10 countries in the world, we do have a burden of responsibility for inaction during the Rwandan genocide. 800,000 people were slaughtered in 100 days. That's a faster rate of killing than the Holocaust. And for doing next to nothing about it, Canada (and the rest of the major and principal powers) does have a level of responsibility for its inaction and allowing it to go on so long.

Do you sincerely feel that capable countries do not have a responsibility to intervene during such atrocities? Do you feel that the major and principal powers of the world do not need to take proactive measures to insure stability of the international order? That's fine. That's your opinion, and in that case then no, you probably do not think Canada has anything to apologise for.

But as someone who feels that Canada is a strong country that projects its values and interests abroad, and is able to act autonomously when required, I welcome the GG statement (whether it be an apology or not).

And that is your entitled opinion, but just that. I don't have to, and I don't, agree.

Regards.
 

Journeyman

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Well Recceguy offered his opinion, and Junius, you're offered yours. In the end, they're just opinions; hardly worth getting riled over.

Personally, I think the GG's comments further set the stage for future CF deployments somewhere within Africa (whether our government has that much foresight is debatable). One reading of her comments is that we -- Canada and the West -- should be feeling guilt about our lack of previous action on that continent. Such collective guilt would ease passage of a mandate to deploy, that will accomplish little besides getting us bogged down in Darfur, Congo, or any number of traumatized places over there.

But next time you're reading Kipling's "White Man's Burden" and telling us how morally superior you are for wanting to giddy-up into Africa, note that he also mentions quite clearly the cost of those efforts.

That's just my opinion though.



ps - if you're going to jack someone up about their spelling; eg - "Antarctica"...you may just want to hit that Spell Check button yourself before posting  ;)
 

Colin Parkinson

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If our next job was to go to Africa and kill all the leaders of the LRA, I could live with that, sadly people who think going to the Congo in force will be more "peaceful" are likely dreaming.
 

ballz

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Junius said:
Canada is a principal power.

We're a top-tier country in the international status hierarchy.

We're in the G8

We're one of the most capable military powers in NATO

as one of the top-10 countries in the world

and is able to act autonomously when required

Your evidence that we are able to intervene "autonomously" are pretty flawed.

Canada could kick up a big stink about Rwanda or Darfur or Congo, deploy a significant contingent, and invest money out the ying yang, but quite frankly, Canada's "influence" in the "international hierarchy" isn't going to compel any real powers to join in and support it, especially not with boots on the ground or financially where it actually counts.

Now if you want to argue that Canada should apologize for moral reasons alone, that's fine, but don't sit here and try and tell me that Canada can just go around doing whatever it feels is morally correct at it's own will without the support of large powers because it has so much power and influence in the world, and should apologize because it just chose not to because it's selfish or didn't feel like it.
 

daftandbarmy

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Brilliant move GG.

Now we can argue for creating a rapidly deployable Division to ensure that a tragedy like this can never be allowed to happen again!
 

Dennis Ruhl

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daftandbarmy said:
Brilliant move GG.

Now we can argue for creating a rapidly deployable Division to ensure that a tragedy like this can never be allowed to happen again!

And taking on the Rwandan army and highly motivated civilians of the time with even a division could go bad.  They might not have perceived us as friends and liberators.
 

SeanNewman

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It's not the taking on any army in Africa part I'm worried about, it's the potential ROE that scare me (and the AIDS, Ebola, Malaria, etc).

Oh, and of course it wouldn't be us versus an African army, it would be African army versus African army/victims and us being the referee.
 

a_majoor

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I posted an article in the Africa in Crisis superthread, which argues the violence is self sustaining now, with gangs of brigands roaming the land only wanting to rape and pillage (and how do you negotiate with people like that? What is the inducement?)

Unless our model is going to be the "Road Warrior" (with us in the Mel Gibson role), I have serious doubts that our role can be more than throwing quick-clot (with the wind in our eyes no less) and slapping on pressure dressings on the enormous social, political and economic problems.

Throwing blood and treasure away for no purpose whatsoever isn't a plan, and unless we are committed to spending a lot of blood and treasure (based on our "home front" experience in Afghanistan, a very problematic assumption), then this entire thing is a non starter.
 

Dennis Ruhl

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Junius said:
Got any actual instances of Canada issuing an apology, other than your rhetoric?

Residential schools - at least twice
Japanese - WWII
Chinese - head tax
Ukrainians - WWI

There must be more.  Despite the fact that we were at war with Italy, Italians think they need an apology although they were only selectively interned.  I had a relative born in Zurich, Switzerland and another born in Russia declared enemy aliens despite the obvious.  All they had to do was turn in (hide) their guns and keep in touch with the police.
 

mariomike

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Dennis Ruhl said:
Residential schools - at least twice
Japanese - WWII
Chinese - head tax
Ukrainians - WWI

There must be more. 

Not quite, but close.:
(Ottawa) – Phil McColeman’s Private Member’s Motion (M-438) to recognize 2010 as The Year of the British Home Child passed with unanimous consent in the House of Commons this morning.:
http://www.philmccolemanmp.ca/EN/8500/102835
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/11/29/11970046-sun.html
 
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