• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

CAN Enhanced (Permanent?) Fwd Presence in Latvia

Czech_pivo

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Reaction score
1,578
Points
1,140
Our Blessed Leader is the only one truly 'manspreading' - someone in the PMO should explain to him that this is anti-Feminist and will turn off female votes between the ages of 18-54.
Looking again at this picture the phase that Maggie Thatcher (I miss her....) used to describe John Major pops into my head - 'He's such a gray man'

Gray-man definition
An average, forgettable man who does not draw attention or stand out in a crowd. noun.
 

IKnowNothing

Member
Reaction score
140
Points
530
Believe me, I have absolutely no love for Trudeau and his defence policy, but there is plenty of blame to go around on this fiasco we find ourselves in now.

Since 1990 (the end of the Cold War and the last time our Defence spending was at 2% of GDP) we've had both Liberal and Conservative governments (12 years under the Conservatives and 20 years under the Liberals) which have all had a part to play in contributing to this mess (and the 1982-1990 ~2% spending was preceded by sub 2% spending from 1973 to 1981).

A big chunk of the blame should also go to the Military leadership over all this time. To be honest it's shameful that with an Army the size of ours and an annual Defence budget of the $22 Billion range annually that we're scrambling to be able to piece together the ability to lead a Brigade-sized deployment. And that's just to LEAD a Brigade...not deploy an entire Brigade on our own. And what would our situation be if we actually had to fight that Brigade?

I would have loved to witnessed the conversation between the Minister and CDS when NATO called on us to meet our commitment.

Minister: "So General, NATO needs us to step up and take on leadership of a Brigade in Latvia. We have three Reg Force Brigades and nine Reserve Brigades in the Army. How do you propose we make this happen?"

CDS: "Ummm...."
This brings to mind @Kirkhill's comparison (GDP adjusted) of what Canada gets for our money vs. the Danish.
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Relic
Reaction score
11,364
Points
1,160
Believe me, I have absolutely no love for Trudeau and his defence policy, but there is plenty of blame to go around on this fiasco we find ourselves in now.

Since 1990 (the end of the Cold War and the last time our Defence spending was at 2% of GDP) we've had both Liberal and Conservative governments (12 years under the Conservatives and 20 years under the Liberals) which have all had a part to play in contributing to this mess (and the 1982-1990 ~2% spending was preceded by sub 2% spending from 1973 to 1981).

A big chunk of the blame should also go to the Military leadership over all this time. To be honest it's shameful that with an Army the size of ours and an annual Defence budget of the $22 Billion range annually that we're scrambling to be able to piece together the ability to lead a Brigade-sized deployment. And that's just to LEAD a Brigade...not deploy an entire Brigade on our own. And what would our situation be if we actually had to fight that Brigade?

I would have loved to witnessed the conversation between the Minister and CDS when NATO called on us to meet our commitment.

Minister: "So General, NATO needs us to step up and take on leadership of a Brigade in Latvia. We have three Reg Force Brigades and nine Reserve Brigades in the Army. How do you propose we make this happen?"

CDS: "Ummm...."

Of course we all know that the coming 'cop out' will be weasel wording changes around 'capabilities', as opposed to hard troop numbers as in 'a full Brigade'.
 

rmc_wannabe

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Reaction score
1,899
Points
1,310
Of course we all know that the coming 'cop out' will be weasel wording changes around 'capabilities', as opposed to hard troop numbers as in 'a full Brigade'.
"Ohhhhh you meant a 'Brigade'. We don't do that here. It's a Brigade Group; less people, less capabilities, but punches above its weight. Sorry, cost saving measure... have you seen the price of a carbon neutral, feminist, new world,social utopia nowadays?"
 

Halifax Tar

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
2,277
Points
1,260
I'm getting tired of hearing we punch above our weight. Were pretty light right now, not sure how "heavy" that punch is no matter how much heart and soul we put behind it.

It's just the new "more with less" mantra.

I'd love to see a GO/FO call the country to task on this.
 

KevinB

Army.ca Legend
Subscriber
Reaction score
8,204
Points
1,140
"Ohhhhh you meant a 'Brigade'. We don't do that here. It's a Brigade Group; less people, less capabilities, but punches above its weight. Sorry, cost saving measure... have you seen the price of a carbon neutral, feminist, new world,social utopia nowadays?"
Technically a Bde Group is a Bde+Enablers - the book value for a CMBG is pretty significant (IF it actually had all the stuff it is supposed too).
 

FJAG

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
4,719
Points
1,040
Did I miss an anti-air detachment in the above?
Yes and no. I didn't give it any thought because Canada doesn't have any. Latvia does have three air defence batteries with RBS 70 and I'm assuming under the current scheme of things the eFP operates under their umbrella. It's anyone's guess as to what the future will bring - short term, we have nothing to offer.

🍻
 

markppcli

Sr. Member
Reaction score
546
Points
860
Believe me, I have absolutely no love for Trudeau and his defence policy, but there is plenty of blame to go around on this fiasco we find ourselves in now.

Since 1990 (the end of the Cold War and the last time our Defence spending was at 2% of GDP) we've had both Liberal and Conservative governments (12 years under the Conservatives and 20 years under the Liberals) which have all had a part to play in contributing to this mess (and the 1982-1990 ~2% spending was preceded by sub 2% spending from 1973 to 1981).

A big chunk of the blame should also go to the Military leadership over all this time. To be honest it's shameful that with an Army the size of ours and an annual Defence budget of the $22 Billion range annually that we're scrambling to be able to piece together the ability to lead a Brigade-sized deployment. And that's just to LEAD a Brigade...not deploy an entire Brigade on our own. And what would our situation be if we actually had to fight that Brigade?

I would have loved to witnessed the conversation between the Minister and CDS when NATO called on us to meet our commitment.

Minister: "So General, NATO needs us to step up and take on leadership of a Brigade in Latvia. We have three Reg Force Brigades and nine Reserve Brigades in the Army. How do you propose we make this happen?"

CDS: "Ummm...."
I don’t blame him for the state of the military at all. Has he improved it? No, but I don’t know that he’s made it all that much worse either. I was more pointing to his inability to say “we are announcing today that Canada will commit an additional x and y to the Baltics and will immediately bring the acquisition of Z.”

Kirkills comparisons are indeed pretty damming, and the fact that we haven’t rationalized our force structure in 30 years is insane to me.
 

FJAG

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
4,719
Points
1,040
I'd love to see a GO/FO call the country to task on this.

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

Oh! Sorry! You were serious. They won't because then they'd have to explain just what DND has been doing with all the money Canadians give it. - Nice little headquarters they have there in Ottawa.

I don’t blame him for the state of the military at all. Has he improved it? No, but I don’t know that he’s made it all that much worse either. I was more pointing to his inability to say “we are announcing today that Canada will commit an additional x and y to the Baltics and will immediately bring the acquisition of Z.”

Kirkills comparisons are indeed pretty damming, and the fact that we haven’t rationalized our force structure in 30 years is insane to me.
He appointed Sajjan which was pretty much a guarantee that the goal posts wouldn't move for a half of a decade.

🍻
 

Halifax Tar

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
2,277
Points
1,260
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

Oh! Sorry! You were serious. They won't because then they'd have to explain just what DND has been doing with all the money Canadians give it. - Nice little headquarters they have there in Ottawa.


He appointed Sajjan which was pretty much a guarantee that the goal posts wouldn't move for a half of a decade.

🍻

I know Im asking for more than our GO/FOs can give ...
 

rmc_wannabe

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Reaction score
1,899
Points
1,310
Technically a Bde Group is a Bde+Enablers - the book value for a CMBG is pretty significant (IF it actually had all the stuff it is supposed too).
And the DRMIS price of an LSVW with full EIS is pretty significant, also. Doesn't mean it has held its value after 30 years of neglect...
 

Skysix

Full Member
Reaction score
553
Points
810
Protectorates don’t get to vote or representation…


Everyone is supposed to pony up both more RRF and troops forward deployed.
For Canada that should br 1 Forward deployed CMBG and 2 for RRF.

Everyone paying Canadian taxes should be wondering WTF the CAF does with its money if it can’t do that easily.
F-35's that don't have the range to be combat effective in the north
 

Skysix

Full Member
Reaction score
553
Points
810
There are other parts of a brigade that are some of the hardest to force generate — the signals squadron, the intelligence company, and the Role 2 capable Field Ambulance.
And Engineers with bridging
 

Kilted

Sr. Member
Reaction score
495
Points
760
Minister: "So General, NATO needs us to step up and take on leadership of a Brigade in Latvia. We have three Reg Force Brigades and nine Reserve Brigades in the Army. How do you propose we make this happen?"

CDS: "Ummm...."
There are ten reserve brigades, and we have had a fourth regular (combat support) brigade for a couple of years now.
 

Dale Denton

Full Member
Reaction score
128
Points
580
I would have loved to witnessed the conversation between the Minister and CDS when NATO called on us to meet our commitment.

Minister: "So General, NATO needs us to step up and take on leadership of a Brigade in Latvia. We have three Reg Force Brigades and nine Reserve Brigades in the Army. How do you propose we make this happen?"

CDS: "Ummm...."

Can you finish the rest of that conversation?
 

Skysix

Full Member
Reaction score
553
Points
810
Flying out of where? Inuvik, Resolute do not have enough fuel to support a tanker dragging a 6-pack. Iqaluit may for a while but Yellowknife and Whitehorse might but they are a fair ways away from where needed. Not to mention the need to regain control of and update/repair the FOL's

Tankers and AWACs are prime high value targets and a 4th gen enemy can down them from a long way away. The arctic has no air defense on the ground and we do not have enough penetation fighters and 'missile trucks' to extend the safe area out far enough.

For example, Relying on F15EX's out of KPDX, F22's from PAED, F35's from PAEI and KC-46 from KTCM to protect not only AK but also our F35's from CYOD as they cover the northern coastline and islands of YT and NT is not realistic
 
Top