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CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018

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George Wallace

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Eye In The Sky said:
Rgr that...figured it one maroon or tan.  Should have guessed tan beret with the badges and GCS-Exp on his DEU. 

Nothing new for jumpers to wear combat boots with pants bloused in CFs/DEUs.  Obviously an older picture with the guys in tans, from the CAR FB page.

Just a small correction.  The SSF did not wear Cbt Boots with their CFs/DEU's, but the SSF Boots; which were similar to the issue ankle boots, but were 8" to 10" instead of 6" sides.  They bloused their Cbt Boots when wearing Work Dress or Cbts; and later the Garrison Boot was worn with Garrison Dress.
 

Blackadder1916

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Eye In The Sky said:
Rgr that...figured it one maroon or tan.  Should have guessed tan beret with the badges and GCS-Exp on his DEU. 

Nothing new for jumpers to wear combat boots with pants bloused in CFs/DEUs.  Obviously an older picture with the guys in tans, from the CAR FB page.

Most likely taken on 17 June 1994.  That was the date of the presentation of the Medal of Bravery (MB) to five members of the CAR for actions performed by them in Somalia. 

http://www.airborneassociation.com/e/about/decorations.html
Corporal BRENT CHRISTOPHER ASHTON, M.B.,
Corporal ROBERT WELLINGTON FARQUHAR, M.B.,
Corporal DINO LEON SIMONE, M.B.,
M/Cpl PAUL DEAN SPRENGER, M.B.

Medal of Bravery, Date of Presentation: June 17, 1994

While off duty in Mogadishu, Somalia, on June 2, 1993, Cpl. Sprenger, then Ptes. Ashton, Farquhar and Simone, swam to the aid of a woman who was being attacked by a shark. Hearing screams from swimmers 500 metres from shore, Ptes. Ashton and Farquhar, followed by Pte. Simone and Cpl. Sprenger bringing an inner tube, swam out to the woman, whose leg had been torn off by a shark. Despite the danger of the blood-filled waters and the rolling surf, Pte. Farquhar attempted artificial respiration while the others managed to place the victim on the inner tube. Pte. Ashton removed his shirt, which Pte. Farquhar used as a tourniquet around the severed limb. The four soldiers brought the woman back to shore, continuing artificial respiration until a helicopter arrived. Unfortunately, their efforts to save the woman were not successful.

Corporal JOSEPH JACQUES MARIO CHARETTE, M.B., Petawawa, Ontario

Medal of Bravery, Date of Presentation: June 17, 1994

A medical assistant with the Canadian Airborne Regiment in Somalia, Cpl. Charette defused a violent demonstration of armed townspeople at the entrance to the Belet-Wen Hospital on February 17, 1993. Cpl. Charette was working alone when a crowd advanced towards the gates of the hospital. Shots were fired and a grenade exploded while Cpl. Charette called for back-up. Despite the growing chaos, Cpl. Charette continued to transmit situation reports while he screened and disarmed the demonstrators. His efforts prevented further destruction of the hospital and the possible deaths of many people.


 

Eye In The Sky

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Blackadder1916 said:
Most likely taken on 17 June 1994.  That was the date of the presentation of the Medal of Bravery (MB) to five members of the CAR for actions performed by them in Somalia.

Oddly enough, I don't remember that ever being in the news around that time.  Anything that had CAR in it was negative press.  Tks for the link!
 

Blackadder1916

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I do recall the announcement of these awards (perhaps in a CANFORGEN or by other internal media), but perhaps because one of the incidents involved a Med A, it probably stuck in my mind.  At the time of the actual presentation I had just repatted from Germany so when any coverage of the events occurred, it would have been like most news we got in Lahr, with a heavy military slant.  Remember, the time was essentially pre-internet.  Yeah, it existed but not that many people were on-line.  If you wanted porn, you actually had to rent videos.  And most people got their news by reading a paper or from the TV/radio.

The presentation would not have been a military affair, as can be noted by the other recipients of bravery decorations on that day.
https://www.gg.ca/honours.aspx?ln=&fn=&t=3&p=&c=&pg=1&types=3&advdfbif=1994-06-17&advdfbit=1994-06-17
 

dimsum

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National Defence considers the boots on the ground
After more than a decade of testing new boots, the Canadian Armed Forces is set to return to the basics.

In the wake of a striking new review of Canada’s military, and promises of a 20-year vision for the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF), the Department of National Defence has confirmed a new, high-tech, painstakingly engineered form of transportation for soldiers in the field. After years of niggling displeasure, CAF members can anticipate a sigh of relief.

The department is buying new boots.

“We’re aiming to get the solicitation on the streets by the end of August,” Lieutenant-Colonel Gordon Edwards, director of soldier systems program management for the CAF, confirmed to The Star. It’s been just three years since the government signed on to $11.7 million in contracts for their current footwear.

“The Land Operation Temperate Boot doesn’t seem to have met the needs of the soldiers the way we hoped that it would,” Lt.-Col. Edwards admitted. The new boots have elicited a range of complaints, from material breaking down to zippers breaking apart in harsh weather.

While the army conducted a user trial prior to purchase — “which is probably one of the first times I think we’ve done it for boots,” Lt.-Col. Edwards added — the then-positive results haven’t held up.

“There’s no test that can be as good as wearing those boots in operation for one year, or nine months,” Major Patrick Lottinville, the director of Land Requirements 5-4/DLR 5, noted. The boots haven’t presented an issue so severe that an immediate switch was required, but Lt.-Col. Edwards ceded that there have been “lots of emails and discussions” dedicated to the topic.

Boots, as it happens, have a complex history in the Forces.


No s***, Sherlock.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/06/15/national-defense-considers-the-boots-on-the-ground.html
 

The Bread Guy

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... Boots, as it happens, have a complex history in the Forces ...
"I'll try "Canadian Defence Procurement Understatements" for $400, Alex ..."
 

Eye In The Sky

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Lsst WCWO *Sgts Townhall* I attended, it was passed on that there are (serious) efforts underway to go to a boot allowance of some sort;  there will be 4 - 5 kinds of boots approved, the mbr would get an allowance, go determine which ones fit and purchase them.  Something along that line.

IF...the boots you can pick from are of the same...less than desirable quality...then situation no change and people will be back to LPOs or stuff they buy themselves off shoeme.ca etc. 
 

buzgo

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Perhaps just a simplification of the situation. We have a boot design that is the 85% solution. Issue that to everyone but let them wear whatever as long as the boot fits into some hopefully broad set of requirements.

Totally conjecture but let's see what happens.
 

PuckChaser

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If 85% of our force is destined for offices and never doing a day of field work, we totally have a 85% solution. Good combat boots run from $250-$450 CAD at retail prices. As soon as we stop trying to re-invent the combat boot, we'll sort this out. Look at the US AR670-1 with a quick synopsis from here: http://authorizedboots.com/list-of-authorized-army-combat-boots/

    Are they made of synthetic materials? If so, they’re out. The upper portion cannot be made of synthetic leather, synthetic suede, or “Wolverine Warrior Leather”…which is another term for pig leather. Your boots must be made of cow/cattlehide leather.
    Is the leather flesh side out? This means the inner lining of the leather is actually facing out. The flesh side is softer and it’s often called “suede leather“.
    Is the sole the same color as the boot? It should be.
    Is the outsole made of rubber or polyether polyurethane? Good.
    Is the height of the soles 2” or less.
    Does the sole curl around the toe or up the heel? Bad.
    Is the upper part leather or a combination of leather and non-mesh? Good. Anything else, then you need a new pair of boots.
    Is the boot 8 to 10 inches tall? Good. Otherwise, it’s out.

I mean, we're not designing #$%$#ing rocket appliances here. It's a pair of boots. Generate some bonafide requirements due to flight/field/ship safety, outline those requirements and let industry advertise boots that are compliant.
 

Old Sweat

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In case you are thinking something good will come of all this, ponder on the little snippet that bitching about sub-standard boots should be an authorized military sport. I joined the army in December 1957 and the troops were griping about our footwear back then nearly sixty years ago. Our first waterproof combat boots were anything but, and the beat goes on. Heck, the cavemen probably complained about the poor quality of their mammoth-hide footwear. 
 

BinRat55

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Eye In The Sky said:
Lsst WCWO *Sgts Townhall* I attended, it was passed on that there are (serious) efforts underway to go to a boot allowance of some sort;  there will be 4 - 5 kinds of boots approved, the mbr would get an allowance, go determine which ones fit and purchase them.  Something along that line.

IF...the boots you can pick from are of the same...less than desirable quality...then situation no change and people will be back to LPOs or stuff they buy themselves off shoeme.ca etc.

It'll never happen. And the only way to prove either one of right / wrong is wait. But I'm my own opinion, the elusive "boot allowance" has been discussed and shot down several times. It will never see the light of day. Right now we are emptying the shelves at both depots of all boots in a systematic order. We have also been told that a new boot sizing kit will be on the way to us before Christmas. For what you ask? Pimped out MkIVs... yessir. Mark 4s are back.
 

Jarnhamar

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BinRat55 said:
It'll never happen. And the only way to prove either one of right / wrong is wait. But I'm my own opinion, the elusive "boot allowance" has been discussed and shot down several times. It will never see the light of day. Right now we are emptying the shelves at both depots of all boots in a systematic order. We have also been told that a new boot sizing kit will be on the way to us before Christmas. For what you ask? Pimped out MkIVs... yessir. Mark 4s are back.

Nice to see you posting BinRat.

What you're saying is what I was told by the army RSM or whoever he was, with all his fancy patches.

New boots will be modified mk4's (vibram soles, speed laces) and f**K  all the guys who paid out of their own pocket for quality boots that work(and don't fall apart)  cause once the new ones new-new ones are issued there will be a crusade against non-issued boots. Again.
 

Eye In The Sky

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Well...I don't know what to tell you.  This was supposedly discussed at the highest levels and is being given consideration.  Maybe its the RCAF that is going to seriously try this?  :dunno:  This was just what the WCWO said was seriously being considered and reviewed at the WCWO Sgts Townhall.  Time will tell though eh?

While I feel for my subordinates who have to suffer thru more of this crappy boot fiasco, where the same problem will tried to be fixed by different people using the same solutions that didn't work XX times before...I am effin glad my *issued* boots are Magnums and Bates.  One good thing I can thank the crappy boots of the late 80s and early 90s for (or crappy insoles/inserts) is foot problems today that = LPO for me.



 

RocketRichard

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Eye In The Sky said:
Well...I don't know what to tell you.  This was supposedly discussed at the highest levels and is being given consideration.  Maybe its the RCAF that is going to seriously try this?  :dunno:  This was just what the WCWO said was seriously being considered and reviewed at the WCWO Sgts Townhall.  Time will tell though eh?

While I feel for my subordinates who have to suffer thru more of this crappy boot fiasco, where the same problem will tried to be fixed by different people using the same solutions that didn't work XX times before...I am effin glad my *issued* boots are Magnums and Bates.  One good thing I can thank the crappy boots of the late 80s and early 90s for (or crappy insoles/inserts) is foot problems today that = LPO for me.
Are you speaking about the issued combat boots from the late 80's/early 90's. Mine fit great and didn't hear complaints by others either. That also doesn't mean that they fit everyone...

Now the issued running shoe/boot for the field that have been issued of late...  UGH!


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Eye In The Sky

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The boots were good (not great, but good) but the insoles were crap; no arch support so its orthotics and LPO boots for me since around 2003.
 

RocketRichard

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Eye In The Sky said:
The boots were good (not great, but good) but the insoles were crap; no arch support so its orthotics and LPO boots for me since around 2003.
Good point  about insoles. Wasn't an issue for me then. Now I use orthotics for everything as well.


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Jarnhamar said:
New boots will be modified mk4's (vibram soles, speed laces) and f**K  all the guys who paid out of their own pocket for quality boots that work(and don't fall apart)  cause once the new ones new-new ones are issued there will be a crusade against non-issued boots. Again.

Didn't the original Mk4 boots have vibram soles and speed laces(I'm thinking of the eyelets on the top 3/4 of the boot, or is this new speed lacing something different?)  Also, any confirmation that the boots will be black as I've been hearing they will be brown?

As for the crusade against non issue boots, I heard that same thing the first time the Mk4s came out but never saw it in any unit I've been in, so I'll stay optimistic that non issue boots are still allowed.
 

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BinRat55 said:
It'll never happen. And the only way to prove either one of right / wrong is wait. But I'm my own opinion, the elusive "boot allowance" has been discussed and shot down several times. It will never see the light of day. Right now we are emptying the shelves at both depots of all boots in a systematic order. We have also been told that a new boot sizing kit will be on the way to us before Christmas. For what you ask? Pimped out MkIVs... yessir. Mark 4s are back.

Sweet, the system can keep buying me LPO boots, because MarkIVs aren't even close to fitting me properly. Do you know if they've finally got a contract in place to custom fit the boots? Its been years since I heard anything about it after the contract was let to expire without renewal/replacement.
 
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