C3 Grounding
- Thread starter TSM A
- Start date
It is not a movement restriction per se. From what I can gather, the difficulty is in the actual carriage breaking, and I fear that similar damage may have already been done to the fleet during wear and tear. Looking at the C3 that broke in Gagetown, the failure occured in the non-recoiling part of the top carriage which holds the recoil mechanism and equilibrator and moves in traverse and elevation, thus pointing the ordnance at the target. It also allows the ordnance to recoil and then return to battery in a controlled manner. The failure occured just behind the rear of the bottom cylinder of the recoil mechanism and just forward of the trunnions (the gizmos that attach the top carriage to the bottom carriage - the part that does not traverse and elevate and which includes the wheels and trails) and may have developed over time. You can see what I am trying to describe in the picture a few posts back.
As TSM A noted, when the trails were opened on coming into action, the gun broke! If this had failed when a round was fired, the results could have been devastating. Even a failure in other usage would cause major damage to the gun. People are taking this very, very seriously.
Cripes, we will be reduced to yelling "bang" or throwing thunderflashes during salutes. To make things worse, these are our Colours.
As TSM A noted, when the trails were opened on coming into action, the gun broke! If this had failed when a round was fired, the results could have been devastating. Even a failure in other usage would cause major damage to the gun. People are taking this very, very seriously.
Cripes, we will be reduced to yelling "bang" or throwing thunderflashes during salutes. To make things worse, these are our Colours.
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Old Sweat said:
Maybe it's time to get some black powder and limber up the Leliefontein gun!
recceguy said:
Indeed, and four old 64-pdr guns were recently unearthed (literally) at Halifax. Five down, umpteen to go.
The reason the Leliefontein gun survived to be displayed in the Canadian War Museum (besides the bravery of the RCD and the Left Section of D Bty) was that it was damaged in a fire in an armoury circa 1905, and was declared unfit for service. It was then placed on display in Ottawa. And by the way, it used cordite for propellant, not black powder.
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.....................and OS would know since he was a 2 I/C on it.
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Old Sweat said:Indeed, and four old 64-pdr guns were recently unearthed (literally) at Halifax. Five down, umpteen to go.
The reason the Leliefontein gun survived to be displayed in the Canadian War Museum (besides the bravery of the RCD and the Left Section of D Bty) was that it was damaged in a fire in an armoury circa 1905, and was declared unfit for service. It was then placed on display in Ottawa. And by the way, it used cordite for propellant, not black powder.
Was that fire not one of the Gun Barns in Petawawa?
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Old Sweat said:
Only because he was sleeping one off in the hay loft
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An interesting note on the Leliefontein Gun that is/was on display at the CWM; the date of the battle on the plaque is wrong. I am also curious as to the authenticity of these two guns (one is black and the other is tan in colour), as I have had to pick up one on an annual basis for the celebration of Leliefontein. Who or how have these two guns been ID'd as the two guns from South Africa?
These guns have quite the history. One was once a monument in Major Hill's Park, and dedicated there by Maj Holland. In November 1983, C Sqn RCD presented one to the Governor General at Government House and for a while it was on display on the lawn there. During the ceremony, the RCD flag flew from the top of Government House, the only time in history that a non-State flag has been flown there. Over the years one of these guns has been on display in the 2 RCHA HQ foyer, RCD HQ foyer, the CNE and numerous other locations besides the CWM.
These guns have quite the history. One was once a monument in Major Hill's Park, and dedicated there by Maj Holland. In November 1983, C Sqn RCD presented one to the Governor General at Government House and for a while it was on display on the lawn there. During the ceremony, the RCD flag flew from the top of Government House, the only time in history that a non-State flag has been flown there. Over the years one of these guns has been on display in the 2 RCHA HQ foyer, RCD HQ foyer, the CNE and numerous other locations besides the CWM.
George
I cannot confirm which, if any, of the guns actually was at Leliefontein. Both the CWM and I had tried in the past, with little luck. Indeed, it was a lucky break that unearthed the tale of the gun that had been on display being damaged in a fire. I happened to be driving up to South Porcupine on Highway 11 and suggested to my wife we check the military museum in Cobalt. They let me into their archives and I discovered a clipping there which they allowed me to copy. It seems to me that Eddy Holland had settled in the area after the Great War, but I don't know if there is a connection.
What is interesting is that every 12-pounder I have seen has a set of post-South Africa modifications to bring it up to Mark II status. The most visible one is the addition of a mini-trail with a clawed foot mounted in a pipe-like housing on the trail.This was designed to lessen the amount that the gun would roll back on firing. Any of the pictures and drawings such as the ones by Lt Morrison in his book show that the guns in South Africa did not have these fitted.
This is the third post-Korea gun we have had trouble with, the other two being the L5 and the LG-1, both of which had more than a few cracked barrels. Hopefully testing will show that there was a structural defect in the top carriage of this C3 which is not fleet wide. However, since hope is not an approved decision making or force structure tool, I am going to restrict my input to a few strategic harrumphs.
I cannot confirm which, if any, of the guns actually was at Leliefontein. Both the CWM and I had tried in the past, with little luck. Indeed, it was a lucky break that unearthed the tale of the gun that had been on display being damaged in a fire. I happened to be driving up to South Porcupine on Highway 11 and suggested to my wife we check the military museum in Cobalt. They let me into their archives and I discovered a clipping there which they allowed me to copy. It seems to me that Eddy Holland had settled in the area after the Great War, but I don't know if there is a connection.
What is interesting is that every 12-pounder I have seen has a set of post-South Africa modifications to bring it up to Mark II status. The most visible one is the addition of a mini-trail with a clawed foot mounted in a pipe-like housing on the trail.This was designed to lessen the amount that the gun would roll back on firing. Any of the pictures and drawings such as the ones by Lt Morrison in his book show that the guns in South Africa did not have these fitted.
This is the third post-Korea gun we have had trouble with, the other two being the L5 and the LG-1, both of which had more than a few cracked barrels. Hopefully testing will show that there was a structural defect in the top carriage of this C3 which is not fleet wide. However, since hope is not an approved decision making or force structure tool, I am going to restrict my input to a few strategic harrumphs.
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I'm in Gagetown on my DP1 Mod 2 right now.We were 2 weeks into the course when the C3's were grounded. We had to switch to the LG1 which put us way behind. I got my posting message and I'm going to 1 horse on the 19th May. My question is, do they even use the LG1 in regiment? Am I going to be way behind or have to take a course as soon as I get posted? P.S. I CANT WAIT TO BE A GUNNER!!!
-BARBARIAN
-BARBARIAN
In your career it is almost a sure thing that you will be trained on and fire more than one gun. Don't worry too much about which gun you will serve in 1 RCHA. Like all the regiments, it is a professional organization and you will be properly trained, although perhaps you will not be shouted at as much as you were at the school. In my career I worked as a gun number, including both as a gunner and then an officer cadet in training, on the 105mm C1, the 155mm towed, the 4.2-in mortar and the 90mm AA in the ground role. As a gun end officer I was on the gun position for all of the above as well as the M109 155mm self-propelled howitzer, the L5 105mm pack howitzer and the British 105mm light gun. At the OP I have fired all the above plus the 81mm mortar and have shot American, British, Italian and Norwegian batteries. And I even pumped a bunch of rounds down range out of a 40mm Boffin LAA gun and, after I retired, managed to fire a round from the M777.
I hope you like the odour of cordite, because you are going to smell an awful lot of it.
I hope you like the odour of cordite, because you are going to smell an awful lot of it.
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PPCLI Guy said:
If I may ask, out of how many?
CARPE_DIEM said:
They still use the LG1 in Regiments, for now. The LG1 has its own problems with some guns developing cracks in the breech ring; this does not auger well. Regiments also use 81mm mortars, but their main gun will be the digitized M777.
There are significant differences between deploying a digital gun and one with only optic sights. Even so, you must be prepared to go back to the basics for when those digital systems go down.
You may also have to deal with a new weapon system while on a small unit exchange, or in some other capacity (such as the OMLT's working D30's)
But as "Old Sweat" pointed out, get used to having to apply the principles of gunnery to any number of weapon systems, because odds are you will have to apply them to more than the C3 or the LG1
I expect when the inspections of all the C3's and C1s are done, we'll be short a few more guns.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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TSM A said:
Wouldn't be the first time that BC units were without proper saluting hardware. Hence the video below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifscbsmx1k8
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