Bullying. Is there a solution?

[PMedMoe]

I know there's loads of bullying stories out there right now.  I read this one this morning and wondered how a parent gets charged for protecting their own child.

Bullies torment Ontario girl

WHITBY -- Morgan Jones should be in class at R.A. Sennett Public School. It's where she belongs. It's where she should safely be.

Instead, the 13-year-old remains at home, as she has for the past three weeks, going over her Grade 7 studies with her mother because she is too frightened to return to school.

Yet another victim of bullying and a school administration that does too little, too late.

In August, her family moved from Nova Scotia into this tough neighbourhood, but the first half of Morgan's school year was uneventful. It was only after Christmas that, for some inexplicable reason, a classmate suddenly drew a target on her back.

It began with text messages telling her not to come back to school or she'd get beaten up.

"I told her to ignore it and turn off her phone," recalls her mom Laurie Jones. 
 

Then came the Facebook threats, including one that if she came to a pre-teen dance in town, she'd be "Morgan 'Rest in Peace' Jones."

With her daughter now afraid to go to school, Jones picked up the phone and called principal Al Drennan.

He spoke with the bully and reassured Morgan's worried parents that he would keep an eye on their daughter. So the frightened teen returned to school.

But there are few things as cruel as teenage girls.

The taunts turned physical. Three ganged up on her in gym class and pelted her with bean bags when the teacher stepped out.

"Then she started rumours saying I stink and I don't take showers. Everybody believed her and I had no friends after that," Morgan explains sadly. "I was alone."

A short time later, she was on a library computer during lunch when one of the girls demanded to see her friends' list on Facebook. When she refused, and went to leave, she says she was smacked on the back of the head and pushed.

Morgan pushed back. "Then she grabbed my hair and pulled me down and was punching me and kneeing me in the face."

The librarian, who didn't see the fight, asked them to leave.

Outside, with more girls looking on, the attack continued.

"She kicked me in the side," Morgan says. "She put her arm around my neck and choked me."

With one girl sitting on her, another broke off a tree branch and scraped it against the painful spot where she'd just been kicked. Morgan finally managed to flee crying to the principal's office.

But it was still not over.

Called to the school, Michael Washbrook arrived to find his daughter in tears. He was told the girls would all have to sit down with the principal for mediation and he should go for coffee.

He was just at the door when he heard Morgan screaming for help. The brazen pack of mean girls had attacked her again, with one of them punching her in the face, right in the school foyer and just steps from the principal.

Obviously, they weren't too worried about the consequences.

The furious dad threw kids aside as he fought his way to his hysterical daughter. The school called the police and it was Washbrook who was threatened with charges for touching the students.

As for the girls, two got three-day suspensions and are back in class. And Morgan? She hasn't been back to school since.

More on link

If I had been the parent, I probably would have done more than throw kids aside. 

What is the issue with kids these days?  I don't seem to remember anything this extreme when I was growing up.  Sure, there were the verbal taunts and what not, but it was pretty rare for things to get physical.  One has to wonder if it's all the violence kids are exposed to in movies, videos and video games (but Gawd forbid they see an uncut version of The Roadrunner  :).  Or is it just that they know they can get away with it?  Three day suspesions.  Big whoop.  Personally, I would want to smack each and every one of them, and the principal as well.

 

[40below]

I think the trouble is, IMHO, the schools have a zero tolerance policy against actual violence and don't know how to deal with/underplay verbal taunting and other harassment.

I'm 40, and when I was in school, you could still fight someone, and consensual fighting acted as a natural check on how far bullying went. And these were high school fights, where a bloody nose was talked about for months, not some kind of chainsaw duel. If you got caught, you might get suspended for a day but more than likely got a stern talking to from the principal if it wasn't habitual behaviour; get caught fighting today,  you could get expelled from school and perhaps from a whole system for a first offense, plus get a criminal record, plus maybe get CAS involved, plus psychological counselling whatever.

Caught teasing to the point that it would be considered assault or criminal harassment if you did it to another adult in 2010 via email, notes, phone calls and in-your-face teasing in which a blow is never struck? Three-day suspension on your fifth offense. Maybe. Provided you're caught in the act. And provided the victim's family gets on your case to do something.

Yeah, I just did a focus group of one, and I gotta say, if I was in high school today, I'd have to go with 'Harrassing the crap out of someone I don't like without ever fighting' myself. Who wouldn't, in the fact that there are almost no consequences whatsoever.

 

[Brasidas]

I think the trouble is, IMHO, the schools have a zero tolerance policy against actual violence and don't know how to deal with/underplay verbal taunting and other harassment.

I'm 40, and when I was in school, you could still fight someone, and consensual fighting acted as a natural check on how far bullying went. And these were high school fights, where a bloody nose was talked about for months, not some kind of chainsaw duel. If you got caught, you might get suspended for a day but more than likely got a stern talking to from the principal if it wasn't habitual behaviour; get caught fighting today,  you could get expelled from school and perhaps from a whole system for a first offense, plus get a criminal record, plus maybe get CAS involved, plus psychological counselling whatever.

Short of high school, and the opening article was of junior high, middle school age,  I never saw a "consensual fight". It was all setups of bullies taking on a designated punching bag. There was a lot of "boys will be boys", and my folks were told that I should stop taking on three larger, older kids at once, as if I were the root of the problem.

Zero tolerance isn't perfect, but it's better than the policies I grew up with.

Caught teasing to the point that it would be considered assault or criminal harassment if you did it to another adult in 2010 via email, notes, phone calls and in-your-face teasing in which a blow is never struck? Three-day suspension on your fifth offense. Maybe. Provided you're caught in the act. And provided the victim's family gets on your case to do something.

Yeah, I just did a focus group of one, and I gotta say, if I was in high school today, I'd have to go with 'Harrassing the crap out of someone I don't like without ever fighting' myself. Who wouldn't, in the fact that there are almost no consequences whatsoever.

Fair enough. Through high school, taunting was an issue for some folks, particularly females. It's "normal", though not acceptable. It's tougher to sort out who's lying, though a paper trail such as undeleted voicemail, e-mail, and text messsages could go a long way to grounding it. If a kid can show solid evidence of systematic harrassment, then escalating measures of suspension, criminal charges, and expulsion should be taken.

Parents need to set up an environment where their kids will talk with them openly about what's going on, and then they need to get the kids to be rational and establish a trail of evidence to back up their side of the story.

When things escalate, parents need to be able to tear the administration to pieces with documentation.

 

[Kat Stevens]

They need to amend the stalking laws to include bullying and throw the book at these little bastards, a big heavy book.

 

[SeanNewman]

If anyone ever physically assaulted my daughter I would like to think I would keep my cool, but I would probably kick the **** out of them regardless if they were a 30 year old man or a 15 year old girl.

*Edited for spelling.

 

[vonGarvin]

If anyone ever physically assaulted my daughter I would like to think I would keep my cool, but I could probably kick the **** out of them regardless if they were a 30 year old man or a 15 year old girl.

I was about to post a similar message.  Were that my daughter, I am certain that I would have punched the attackers in the face.  I could care less their age or gender.  NOBODY touches my daughter and gets away with it.  I'm fairly certain I would have gone to condition red.  You don't negotiate with terrorists, and you certainly don't negotiate with bullies.  "Sheepdog protecting the flock" theory states that only a predator can hunt a predator, so, with bullies, give it back to them such that they learn, through pain (the best motivator), they learn to never do it again.


Just my  :2c:

 

[SeanNewman]

I should clarify though that I would only go to that extreme if I saw something rediculous like a group beating.

I am not a fan of zero-tollerance types of systems either, where one fight equals getting expelled.  In terms of "consentual fighting", I can say that I saw dozens of them going to school in the 1980s, and took part on some myself.  And yes, in my opinion they do act like a check and balance.  The difference is that in the goold-old-days, you'd have your fight that lasted 1 minute, and when someone was down (if it even got that far), they were down and that was the end of it.  Heck, you'd probably be friends with that person in a month and back to playing tetherball with them.

And as per the poster above, if you got caught it might result in a couple days of suspension as punishment and cool-off time, but that was it.

As for bullying, once again there is a difference between kids being kids by name calling and setting up their little cliques, and actually threatening other kids.

One thing we have to remember is that we're still animals.  Civilized more than others yes, but we are rational adults making this posts...and sometimes may forget how crazy things are when you are that are and your horomones are going crazy.  A teenager's brain isn't developed fully yet, and the science supports Bill Cosby's old joke about a parent asking "Well if I told you not to do it and you knew you weren't supposed to do it when why did you do it?", followed by the reponse "I don't know".

We have to realistic that kids are going to make stupid decisions, but sheesh...letting a girl get gang beaten is just not cool.

 

[LineJumper]

But it was still not over.

Called to the school, Michael Washbrook arrived to find his daughter in tears. He was told the girls would all have to sit down with the principal for mediation and he should go for coffee.

He was just at the door when he heard Morgan screaming for help. The brazen pack of mean girls had attacked her again, with one of them punching her in the face, right in the school foyer and just steps from the principal.

Obviously, they weren't too worried about the consequences.

The furious dad threw kids aside as he fought his way to his hysterical daughter. The school called the police and it was Washbrook who was threatened with charges for touching the students.

As for the girls, two got three-day suspensions and are back in class. And Morgan? She hasn't been back to school since.

My kid? yeah, that principal would have some explaining to do. Good thing my girl is a gentle hockey player.

 

[CorporalMajor]

They need to amend the stalking laws to include bullying and throw the book at these little bastards, a big heavy book.

More like an anvil.

Isn't this kind of behavior what puts adults in jail? (Death threats? Assault?)

 

[MARS]

Maybe it is simply my fading memory, but in the several high schools I attended, I NEVER recall anyone comitting suicide from bullying.  I guess it happened and I know that is not the point of this article, but it appears to me to be more prevalent now.  Perhaps that is a function of modern communications and the time spent using social media such as Facebook and the like - kids can't get away from it.  Maybe that is why modern bullying appears much more severe than in the past - because it is.  I was bullied - right up until Grade 13 if you can believe it - I was and am a small guy who was dating the cousin of some brute on the football team.  School was a nightmare that semester.  But when I left school, no problem.  Didn't see the guy, he didn't harass me out of school - except for a house party once.  But when I got home, it was safe and I could decompress.

So, I think bullying is different now, and must be handled differently than in our day.  Yes, I saw the fights too and agree that more often than not, the fight ended when the guy was down and everyone moved on.  I don't necessarily agree with zero tolerance either, but I think the situation has changed considerably.

My 2 cents

 

[CorporalMajor]

I don't recall that kind of stuff either.  I didn't go to school in a rough neighborhood, and there were the odd fights or taunting, but jesus. 

Here's what I want to know.  Where is the leadership?  Why is the father getting in trouble for helping her own daughter out?  Are these bullies not being held accountable?  If I did things like that I would be put out of a job or even in jail, so why should kids get away with it? 

The more I read about high schools, esp in this province, the worse and worse they appear to be.  I've never seen a system that sounds this poorly run.  They need stricter rules in place and they need to enforce them.  Can you imagine how these people will wind up when they're adults if you don't throw the book at them when they're young?

I read of a similar case in Kanata in the paper.  A young girl got post-traumatic from being treated the same way, and the school staff did next to nothing to help her.  Her mother is trying to sue the board for it.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Here's what I want to know.  Where is the leadership?  Why is the father getting in trouble for helping her own daughter out?  Are these bullies not being held accountable?

The current school leaderships are all products of the social engineering espoused by the socialist led left wing teachers colleges and professors that we have allowed to hijack the education system for the last twenty five years. It will take another 25 to sort it out ONCE we decide, as parents, to take back the system, and curriculum, we previously entrusted to their care.

 

[CorporalMajor]

The current school leaderships are all products of the social engineering espoused by the socialist led left wing teachers colleges and professors that we have allowed to hijack the education system for the last twenty five years. It will take another 25 to sort it out ONCE we decide, as parents, to take back the system, and curriculum, we previously entrusted to their care.

I wouldn't entrust those people with five dollars let alone my children.

I think it's due time we took it back.  All it would take is some discipline, and some responsibility on the teacher's part.  And it would take some persuasion from the parents, I wouldn't accept my kids' schools to be this way even if my kid wasn't involved. 

 

[HavocSteve]

I live in Oshawa and I can tell you.. if you move half-way through a school year or from somewhere different that isn't near "your zone", you tend to get picked on. I can concur with some of the older adults that I too would more then likely do the same to the attackers as they were to my daughter. These kinds of acts of bulling then to create either a suicide or a mass shooting. It's been proven and I feel horrible for the people who have to go through with such things in middle school let alone highschool. I graduated my highschool in 2006, I was picked on for 1 week at the beginning since I barely knew a lot of the people. The following monday, I warned my dad that I would have a extra week off vacation over march break because I knew I was going to fight the kid who was making fun and calling me on all day for the entire week. The fight only ended because the teacher kicked down the portable door because I landed a uppercut and the kid started bleeding everywhere. After that, school was easy... I could only wish half the people who get picked on did what I did. People usually pick on people because no one does anything about it. Dish it back and usually it stops.

I think the way to end this kid of thing would be police involvement and start doing cruel punishment to start cutting back the bulling some of these pre-teens get. I'm sure if the parents were held responsible for their kids actions. This wouldn't have gone this far as to have your child beat up in from of the principle let alone in-front of her father.

 

[BeyondTheNow]

I thought this was a fitting thread to add this video to. PLEASE watch. This is powerful.

For a large percentage of us, name-calling and the like has little or no long-term effects. We move on, we flourish, we laugh at the past and usually largely forget the negativities of growing up. But for those who become entwined in the lies they're told about themselves, please don't believe it.

I urge you to spare a few minutes and watch the entire video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgYzIehZxSo

 

[krimynal]

I thought this was a fitting thread to add this video to. PLEASE watch. This is powerful.

For a large percentage of us, name-calling and the like has little or no long-term effects. We move on, we flourish, we laugh at the past and usually largely forget the negativities of growing up. But for those who become entwined in the lies they're told about themselves, please don't believe it.

I urge to to spare a few minutes and watch the entire video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgYzIehZxSo

awesome movie ..... I see all your stuff right here and I thought I might put my 2 cents in it .... I had been bullied over and over and over again when I was younger ....

I'm 24 years old , got my high school diploma here in Quebec in 2004 .... I was born in Arthabaska ( small city close to Victoriaville Quebec City ) , when my mom left the hospital we went back to Oshawa , my parents split ed up when I was about 2 years old .... mom came back to Quebec city with myself , dad stayed in Ontario .... I moved 19 times as of now ..... Went to 13 different school ( most of them after grade 4 ) .... so yeah had some years when I have been in 3 different school in the same year .... In Quebec , people saw me as the English kid , in Ontario people saw me as the french kid .... never really was able to fit right in.  When I was 13-14 I first experienced with drugs and alcohol , since I had no real friends I thought it would make me cool if I did those dumb stuff ( can't believe how stupid you are when you are a kid ) ... got expelled from school lots of time , I was fighting pretty much everyday ..... Yeah ..... I was a problem kid ....

It's crazy how it can affect you mentally .... I was taking martial arts class .... not because I wanted to have a black belt or anything .... simply because I could beat the living hell out of the next kid who would come up to me and push me in my locker. 

Fortunately , 1 day , I decided I had enough , I woke up this day and ... yeah .... my life had to change if I wanted to become something better .... so in September 2007 ..... I quit drugs , alcohol , and cigarette all at the same time .... haven't touched drugs since then , last time I drank was 2 years ago .... and last time I smoked a cigarette was 3 years ago .....

so yeah .... sometimes you go trough a lot of stuff .... that ... as a kid you can't figure out why .....

sorry for the little personal story .... felt like it was the right place to speak hehe !

anyways ..... I just wish sometimes we will be able to stop all this crap ... I can't believe how much kids these days are mean and hurtfull ....

 

[BeyondTheNow]

Thank you for sharing your experiences, Krimynal. I can't deny that I'm not emotionally invested in that movie's message also. I had a very difficult childhood, some of that related to my exterior circumstances, but a lot of it related to what went on inside my own head. My brother is a high-school teacher and he shared that video on his F/B wall, with the message that it only takes a second for a teacher to intervene when they see things taking place.

I now worry for my own son and for the day when it will be his turn to handle the pain and the loneliness.  To a certain degree, yes, it's a part of growing up; but I also believe bullying/teasing has reached a very different level than what it was when I was young. I hope I instill in him enough self-confidence and esteem to know everything will pass and that home is his haven. I also sometimes worry that maybe it won't be enough.  I know as a parent I'm not alone in these thoughts, so when the time arrives (and it will, unfortunately) I'll just have to take each day as it comes.

On a brighter note, I'm glad that awareness of the issue is more prevalent now and that it's not as taboo to speak of depression and/or bullying and its affects.  I think we can tackle it--not completely, of course; but we can certainly help raise awareness to the fact that several instances of bullying these days are really not okay.  Like I said, for most of us, it wears off and we move on. Kids are mostly resilient. But there are others who aren't so lucky...

 

[krimynal]

I guess we has "adult" ( okay I'm a young adult , but you get the point ) .... it gets so scary ... I mean now it's all about internet and everything ..... people don't come up to your face to tell you anything they just do it with internet ..... it gets even worse because people on the internet are usually a lot meaner then if they were standing face to face ..... people are usually a lot more brave if they are standing begind a telephone or a computer screen .....

and people nowadays feel the pressure of trying to fit right in , trying to become something more then everyone else ..... and I guess that's why we have so much teen suicide , bullying and everything ....


I just hope I'll be the best dad I can be when it comes the time .... hopefully my personnal story will somehow make me closer to my kids and beeing there for them whenever they need me .... ( okay I know I'm trying to go into the military but still ) ....


This part of the movie , is how I really really wish my family will be ( okay it's a movie but you get the point )

it's a really boring movie , but this part makes me laugh everytime hahaha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjpkMfTBVQs

 

[BeyondTheNow]

HAH! I DO love that movie

 

[krimynal]

I mean it's so funny hahaha , I like how it's a family of like ..... you know they have fun  they enjoy eachother haha