British sailors arrested at gunpoint by Iranian navy.

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I thought the NY post article was typical right wing US bull. The Brits are bringing their people home in tact and there are 15 families that are not going to be greiving their husbands, fathers, mothers and daughters. Alls well that ends well!

 

[tomahawk6]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070404/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_britain_syria
So it comes out that Syria helped with the release of the hostages during the visit of Nancy Pelosi. I think she most likely had a huge influence on the negotiations and with that in mind she has effectively done more than Bush or Blair during the entire hostage situation.

Dumb comment.Syria has no real influence with Iran.They are a client state.Pelosi's visit is pure interference in US foreign policy.I want to point out that Pelosi's Congress couldnt be bothered to pass a resolution denouncing Iran's seizure of the UL military personnel.

 

[Gimpy]

Dumb comment.Syria has no real influence with Iran.They are a client state.Pelosi's visit is pure interference in US foreign policy.I want to point out that Pelosi's Congress couldnt be bothered to pass a resolution denouncing Iran's seizure of the UL military personnel.

Whats dumb about it? Syria is certainly closer to Iran than the US is. Syria is closer to Iran than Saudi Arabia. Just because they don't have any "real" influence doesn't mean that they aren't in contact with Iran whereas the US and UK aren't. And correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Ms. Pelosi was the only US politician during this entire situation to take any action at all.

Also here is the cover of a newspaper that sums up the situation nicely:

 

[tomahawk6]

If she wanted to influence the situation she should have gone to Tehran instead of Damascus. Her visit there was amature hour. She misrepresented the Israeli position.She didnt even raise the subject of captured Israeli soldiers.

 

[Gimpy]

If she wanted to influence the situation she should have gone to Tehran instead of Damascus. Her visit there was amature hour. She misrepresented the Israeli position.She didnt even raise the subject of captured Israeli soldiers.

Tell me the last time an American politician has visited Tehran and then think about it for a minute. There is no way any American politician, even Bush would dare step foot in Iran. So don't use that argument. Syria is by far the closest country relations-wise to Iran, and Bush hasn't even been to Syria. Also, not sure what you mean by Israeli position (typo maybe) but we're talking about the British here.

Also, tell me how do you know she didn't raise the subject of the captured soldiers? It seems like she of all people would since she would have a lot of politcal capital to gain at home and abroad if she did. Honestly, she would do it just to stick it to Bush even further.

 

[KevinB]

Tell me the last time an American politician has visited Tehran and then think about it for Syria is by far the closest country relations-wise to Iran.

:
Uhm dude you do know the difference between a Sunni gov't and a Shia one dont you?

The rest of your posting is equally dumb.

 

[Gimpy]

:
Uhm dude you do know the difference between a Sunni gov't and a Shia one dont you?

The rest of your posting is equally dumb.

Show me another Shia majority that has closer relations with Iran than Syria does. I doubt you can. Sunni and Shia have nothing to do with Iran-Syria relations. The fact is that their relations are so close because they are two Arab nations who share common interests and are shunned by the USA. So please enlighten me on how my posting is "dumb" when all you've posted is a meaningless comparison.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I can help enlighten you a bit, you are being told by a person who has, and still is, making his living in that part of the world. His life depends on what he knows.............................and you?

 

[Gimpy]

I can help enlighten you a bit, you are being told by a person who has, and still is, making his living in that part of the world. His life depends on what he knows.............................and you?

I realize he is in the region, but he is pointing out the fact that Syria has a Sunni government and Iran has a Shia government. But those in no way seriously effect the relationship between Iran and Syria.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/827017.html

Iran and Syria have stated publically that they have an alliance. Iran has sold Syria weapons. They share the common interest of protecting themselves from Israel and US (their words). So, the fact they share different religions has nothing to do with their political relationship which was the crux of Infidel's little jab.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

You MUST come out to poker night sometime..........................$$$$

 

[Gimpy]

You MUST come out to poker night sometime..........................$$$$

I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand the meaning of this post. I'm not trying to be disrespectful at all, but the point is that regardless of the fact that Infidel is in the region, it doesn't make him an expert on Iran-Syria relations. Futhermore, I doubt any of us are, I certainly am not, but from the information that is available to the public its clear that the religion of both countries doesn't have an influence on their political relationship.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I realize he is in the region, but he is pointing out the fact that Syria has a Sunni government and Iran has a Shia government. But those in no way seriously effect the relationship between Iran and Syria.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/827017.html

Iran and Syria have stated publically that they have an alliance. Iran has sold Syria weapons. They share the common interest of protecting themselves from Israel and US (their words). So, the fact they share different religions has nothing to do with their political relationship which was the crux of Infidel's little jab.

I'm not trying to split hairs here but it must be pointed out that they do not share different "religions" It is the same religion but different sects of the same religion. In the same way that the Northern Irish are Protestants and Catholics; same religions, different sects. It may seem to you a small difference but really not in the large scale of things.

 

[Gimpy]

I'm not trying to split hairs here but it must be pointed out that they do not share different "religions" It is the same religion but different sects of the same religion. In the same way that the Northern Irish are Protestants and Catholics; same religions, different sects. It may seem to you a small difference but really not in the large scale of things.

Yes, I do know that its all Islam, but different strands. But my point is that while there is division between the two strands of Islam which can cause animosity towards the other Iran and Syria have managed to work around those to form a strong bond which counters what Infidel was saying about Sunni/Shia governments.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

A "strong bond" is not based solely on mutual hatred of a third party.....

 

[KevinB]

Syria is on Syria's side (and the same applies to Iran - but I digress)
  Syria has been allowing insurgents to cross the border into Iraq (and where they go and kill Shia's) in doing so it ensures 1) Iran will not be able to gain control via the weight of numbers of Shia in Iraq. 2) The US is kept hoping on one foot.  Yet they actively crackdown on internal dissenter or insurgents that pop up on the radar so as to keep the American's somewhat appeased.
Iran on the other hand is a totally different kettle of fish.  The more radical of the elements (IRG) intend on establishing their view of life on everyone else a country at a time.

Heck the Germans sold weapons to Iraq (and the French) -- and the Canadian gov't sold a bunch of Twin Hueys (CH135 Iroquois)  to the Iranians a few years ago.  Selling weapons is hardly a measue of you countries posture to the other.


The more "extreme" members of the opposing sides believe that the side of the religion are heretics (and thus worse than Infidels).  Political dallying in the Muddle East cant be counted on 1)Everyone Hates Israel 2) Not really anyone likes the US -- they'd love to hate them -- but the US has a big stick...  3) They dont trust anyone.


IF/When the US pulls out or Iraq -- the sides of religion will be evident -- Syria and Saudi are on records they beleive they would have to move troops in to protect the Sunni's -- and Iran will move (more) troops in to prop up the Shia.
  Then there will be a bloodbath of epic scale - and the Kurds sitting back and banking money and building up their army with western support...

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Then there will be a bloodbath of epic scale - and the Kurds sitting back and banking money and building up their army with western support...

Unless Turkey decides to move in and eliminate the Kurdish problem once and for all...

 

[tomahawk6]

Watching the press conference this AM of 6 RM/RN personnel and one thing that struck me was how unprepared these personnel were for captivity. This episode shows that all personnel need to go through some form of SERE training. In captivity you have a duty to resist becoming part of the bad guys propaganda effort.At the same time you want to survive.Some people cannot handle the pressure and give in and many others find ways to get through captivity with honor.

The RN is reviewing its ROE. Evidently they could fire only in self defense. Initially they were stalled by 2 boats and 6 IRG personnel and were joined by 6 other boats to effect the capture.Due to the shallow water the Cornwall could not move closer to their position. I think  patrol craft need to be used in those waters otherwise the boarding parties have no backup.The USN only has the Cyclone Class type vessel and the lead ship has already been decommissioned.

 

[observor 69]

To all the Royal Navy and Royal Marine hostages captured by the Iranians I say

"Bravo Zulu" 

A naval signal, conveyed by flaghoist or voice radio, meaning "Well Done"

 

[Belce]

Actually Syria's Baath party is majority composed of a Shia sect called Alawi.  The majority of people in Syria are Sunni, but they are ruled by Shite Muslims.  

For more info you can google alawi islam
or for a quick look
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/intro/islam-alawi.htm

 

[LakeSup]

"Watching the press conference this AM of 6 RM/RN personnel and one thing that struck me was how unprepared these personnel were for captivity. This episode shows that all personnel need to go through some form of SERE training. In captivity you have a duty to resist becoming part of the bad guys propaganda effort.At the same time you want to survive.Some people cannot handle the pressure and give in and many others find ways to get through captivity with honor."
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The RN pers may not have had much indoc as POWs but the RMs likely did...pretty tough guys and tough training in the RM.
On another note, I just watched the Beltway Boys on FoxNews and they are really playing the Brits as cowards saying they embarrassed themselves by not pulling a "John McCain for as long as 10 min."  Also another show on the network commented on the Brits caving although they didn't use the word "cowards" amidst the eyerolls.