Brad/Chelsea Manning: Charged w/AFG file leak, Cdn angles, disposition (merged)

[cupper]

But he does get 122 days credit for the 9 months he spent in solitary. The Judge was compassionate in her view on how he was treated prior to trial.

 

[kevincanada]

136 years? in many cases sentences run concurrently, eg 20 years for charge a 30 for charge b ... I calendar year takes a year off of each. In any event He is not going to be free for a good long time, if ever.

I do not understand the American penal system.  Concurrently... The max sentence on a individual charge he was found guilty of is 10 years.  Would that not mean 10 years minus time served? 

 

[George Wallace]

Is not "aiding the enemy" still punishable by death by firing squad in the US military?

 

[cupper]

The US system (civilian) allows for consecutive sentencing, and is more the norm than the exception. The military system also (my understanding) allows for consecutive sentencing as well.

The 136 years assumes he gets the full term, and each is served consecutively. I'm not sure if that includes the maximum 20 years he cold get for the charges he previously pled guilty to. (After reading the verdict, it appears that the guilty pleas were included)

The Canadian criminal system does have allowances for consecutive sentencing but is more the exception than the norm.

 

[FJAG]

This page very generally sets out the law in Canada on concurrent and consecutive sentences.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Sentencing/Available_Sentences/Concurrent_and_Consecutive_Sentences

:cdnsalute:

 

[Inquisitor]

I am going to an idea up the flagpole and see what happens to it.

I recently read somewhere that it is in the government's best interest that justice be seen to be done.

What he did was illegal and deserving of punishment.

Here is arelated  little factoid I find interesting, according to a recent poll 70% of the American People favor keeping Guantanamo Bay open.

It seems that the American People and their Government in cases like this, Assange, and Snowden and Guantanamo  value vengeance more than justice.

They devalue the damage down to their own rights.

If true the various "Hysteria" channels are partly to blame. It also smacks of other negative factors such as desperation.

Desperate organizations or people  typically do not make good decisions that are in their best interest. 

If some of you are still wondering what I am trying to get at, please look-up one of my favorite historical works "The March of Folly - the persuit of policy contrary to self interest" by my favorite  author Barbara Tuchmann "The Guns of August" If the dear Lady were still around she could put out a new edition and any of the last three US presidents could write a new forward.

It seems that this post belongs on the snowden link as well

 

[FJAG]

Having said the above, please note that under s. 148 of the NDA, "Only one sentence shall be passed on an offender at a trial under the Code of Service Discipline and, where the offender is convicted of more than one offence, the sentence is good if any one of the offences would have justified it." Note that a sentence can include multiple punishments such as a fine and reduction in rank etc.

The UK Court Martial Manual explicitly makes provision for both concurrent and consecutive sentences.

I have made a quick read of the US Uniform Code of Military Justice and while I can't put a finger on any particular provision, I believe it calls for consecutive sentences (although I have seen one article that talks about "one sentence" at a CM). Under a recent ruling by the Court of Appeal of the Armed Forces (US v Campbell) there is a reference to an old principle called " multiplicity for sentencing" and a newer concept of "unreasonable multiplication of charges as applied to sentence". I think even to the experts this is a bit muddled but I think it deals with situations where an accused does a number of related transactions which are charged as separate counts (in the Campbell case a series of thefts by a military nurse of controlled narcotics etc). Under the principle the judge can effectively "merge" the several convictions and enter one sentence.

See one analysis of the decision here and good luck: http://www.caaflog.com/2012/03/03/opinion-analysis-united-states-v-campbell-no-11-0403af/

That said I think this principle may play a part in the Manning case.

Should be entertaining.  op:

 

[FJAG]

Defence seeks merger of some convictions

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/canadian-press-newsalertus-army-pfc-bradley-manning-acquitted-of-aiding-enemy--217616541.html

 

[cupper]

I suspect predict that the final outcome will result in a sentence between 20 and 40 years.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Hollywood weighs in at last, I was getting worried.

http://iam.bradleymanning.org/

 

[vonGarvin]

Hollywood weighs in at last, I was getting worried.

http://iam.bradleymanning.org/

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!



/sarcasm



I had to stop watching.  My blood was starting to boil...

 

[kevincanada]

Next up, Feature Film.  Hollywood Conspiracy theories get your tickets now only $9.95  op:  On a serious note.  A news article I read did say the prosecution can now bring up the actual damages he caused with the information distributed if they feel fitting now that the conviction portion of the trial is over.  I am interested to see what harm his actions have caused.

 

[Inquisitor]

It's true that he did damage.

I suspect In a perfect world at least one of the more serious charges would read "P*ssing in in Fearless Leaders corn flakes"

Here is a link to some of the changes he has made in the world, for good or ill, I'll leave that for you to decide.

Link here: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/top_10_ways_bradley_manning_changed_the_world_20130731/

 

[cupper]

It's true that he did damage.

I suspect In a perfect world at least one of the more serious charges would read "P*ssing in in Fearless Leaders corn flakes"

Here is a link to some of the changes he has made in the world, for good or ill, I'll leave that for you to decide.

Link here: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/top_10_ways_bradley_manning_changed_the_world_20130731/

The article is rife with factual errors right from the opening sentence.

Bradley Manning will be sentenced today, having been found guilty of 20 counts on Tuesday

Manning's release of diplomatic cables that revealed that various regimes in the Arab world were authoritarian and corrupt and lead to the Arab spring movement is a pretty big streatch. It is to say that if Manning had not leaked the info, the Arab Spring movement would not have happened, or would not have been as big a movement as it was.

The so-called "secret" drone in Yeman was a big surprise.  :sarcasm:  Not exactly the best kept secret. The complicity of the Yemani government may not have been as well known, but the uprising and attempt to overthrow the regime would have occurred regardless of the revelation.

Diplomats spying on diplomats? Colour me shocked.

Kerry pressing Israel on return of the Golan? Can't what sort of change this resulted in due to Manning releasing this info.

Afghan Government corruption had been revealed in every inspector Generals report dating back to 2003 and beyond. Not a revelation by Manning in any sense.

The majority of information leaked by Manning, particularly the diplomatic cables were not any great revelation and was generally public knowledge. The damage was to US Diplomatic relations by revealing commentary and assessments which viewed other countries and governments / leaders in a less than flattering light. In other words, the diplomatic equivalent of the Kings New Clothes.

Some of the information did place people in jeopardy, particularly discussions with members of opposition groups in countries with authoritarian governments.

Manning has not changed the world.   

 

[Inquisitor]

To reply to the previous post:

I see you and raise >

I put myself in jeopardy here but think "What would Col. David Hackworth do in a situation like this? I predict he would support Manning.

I suspect  he would also prescribe some moral Viagra for dysfunctional "Moral compasses"  on the part of the administration(s)

Info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hackworth

 

[Inquisitor]

I suspect predict that the final outcome will result in a sentence between 20 and 40 years.

I suspect that this could get really interesting. It seems that much of the testimony will be out of the public view.

If I was his attorney I would be angling for a Presidential Pardon >, not that either  will ever happen.

I suspect that the defence playing a Dick  Cheney, Valerie Plame (Undercover CIA agent gets revealed), Iraq WMD (disinformation used to build case for war), Scooter Libby (The revealer)  gets pardon hand might  have some merit. 

This would apply to Snowden as well if ever goes on trial.

 

[cupper]

To reply to the previous post:

I see you and raise >

I put myself in jeopardy here but think "What would Col. David Hackworth do in a situation like this? I predict he would support Manning.

I suspect  he would also prescribe some moral Viagra for dysfunctional "Moral compasses"  on the part of the administration(s)

Info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hackworth

How is this relevant?

 

[Jarnhamar]

To reply to the previous post:

I see you and raise >

I put myself in jeopardy here but think "What would Col. David Hackworth do in a situation like this? I predict he would support Manning.

I suspect  he would also prescribe some moral Viagra for dysfunctional "Moral compasses"  on the part of the administration(s)

Info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hackworth

Why do you hate freedom?

 

[Inquisitor]

Why do you hate freedom?

Thank you for your question - I do not beleive I do.  In fact I feel quite the opposite. Myself and many others feel that the human rights are being stripped away under the guise of the war on terror.

We both know that I tend to go off on tangents so. I will include some selected links that I hope will illustrate my points.

Ahhh!! Please allow me to introduce Paul Craig Roberts - here is a select bio: Paul Craig Roberts is an American economist and a columnist for Creators Syndicate. He served as an Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration and was noted as a co-founder of Reaganomics.

I hope we can botyh agree he is not some weak kneed liberal.

As luck would have it his latest column takes shots at the administration  over both the Snowden and Manning trials.

He also comments on the American economy as well.

I'll try to give you another example. Both my parents most male members of their age served in WWII. I served in the 70's.

During most of the ColdWar  "The Free World" was in peril. At time there were serious overreactions that did a lot of Harm to the practice of "Freedom" Mcarrthy era was one. The Red scare was another.  Bader Meinhof Gang, Red Army, Weather Underground, IRA bombings in the 60's and 70's yet another.

That last point is I think of sigifigance. Despite bombings there was no heavy handed overreaction such as the so-called "Patriot Act"  I have often wondered why that was. A partial answer that occurred to me is  of the Adult population who had lived through WWII knew what REAL TERROR was, the blitz, strategic bombing and were not so easily misled.

Another point if I may, I am almost 60 and I think this has allowed me a wider view than  others. The ones I am relay concerned about are those  born after 9/11 who have never lived the "Old Normal: Also those born after 1991 who had little experience with the "Old Normal"

If you are still with me - thank you for your attention.

For General Hillier to refer to the 90's as "The Decade of Darkness"  to my mind does the Forces a disservice. The decades of Darkness ended when The Soviet Union imploded.

Now it looks like the same style of mismanagement that took down the Soviet Union will do the same to the US.

Getting Back To Col. Hackworth. He was an idol to me even in the 70's I suggest you would enjoy his books "Steel my Soldiers Hearts" about how he forged a draftee battalion into a fighting unit. About face - the tale of his carreer started right after WWII  and explaining what he did and why.

He was a true patriot, as I aspire to be. A champion of the fighting force, a relentless foe of waste and incompetants and "Perfumed Princes".

I note another of your posts noting the high levels of suicide in the US Military. I have a very strong theory that combat arms pers represent a very high percentage of those.

I could go and but I can just visualize the  :boring: and  :facepalm: :clown: :blah: I have likely earned.


One of our WWII vets said - for me every day is Remembrance Day" It is for me as well.  My cousin was one of 10 that died at the Edmonton Air show Crash.  Who on earth came up with the idea of Hercules Transports doing unauthorized formation aerobatics.  At least 6 commissioned officers in on the stunt and no one had the brains to stop.  The pilots were stupid beyond belief AND it was a command failure as well.

Spell check complete Finally I will provide a quick summary of a defence policy that once worked well. The Abrams - Weinberger -  Powell doctrine  Ah heck - look it up if interested.

 

[Inquisitor]

drat - here's the link to Paul Craig Roberts http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/

Thank you