BMOQ Regular Force 2014 - 2017 [Merged]

[flatlander13]

I would highly caution against suggesting rehab type exercises without 1) being a health care professional trained to do so and 2) after being such a professional, not doing a complete, in-person assessment. I know your intention is to help, but a person can do much more harm than good if they're doing incorrect exercises incorrectly.

 

[cryco]

Excellent point. The suggestions I made are highly dependent on proper form. As such, if you do need to work on your knees, consult a physio, if only for one session.
Unless you are familiar with those exercises, pretend i said nothing.

edit: i reread OP, and his basic starts in a month or two. If he can't do the exercises i suggested without causing himself pain or making things worse, then he's in a world of trouble. They either missed something on his medical or Basic training will be a nightmare for him.

 

[flatlander13]

My point still stands. Don't suggest things that are out of your scope; you are not a professional in the matter, nor do you know his case well enough to know what type of things he could work on.

To the OP, I've had many people say to me "My buddy has knee pain and his physio gave him exercises 'x, y and z', so I've been doing exercises 'x, y and z', but I haven't been getting better and I have no idea why!". If you want things to work on, and want some knowledge on how to self-manage your symptoms, there's still time! Consult a physio in your local area and be weary of online suggestions. My :2c:

 

[OldSolduer]

Except those NCOs...you know, Non-Comissioned Officers.

;D

Technically we are non commissioned members or NCMs....all those CWO and below.

CPls and MCPLs are Junior NCOs. Sgts are Senior NCOs, while WOs, MWOs and CWOs are known as Warrant Officers.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Technically we are non commissioned members or NCMs....all those CWO and below.

CPls and MCPLs are Junior NCOs. Sgts are Senior NCOs, while WOs, MWOs and CWOs are known as Warrant Officers.

Yup, all NCOs are NCMs but not all NCMs are NCOs.  :christmas happy:

We've lost that little difference along the way.  Personally I point the finger at the Officer Corps for not using it from the top-down.  One of my pet peeves.

Of course, the definition of "Officer" in the QR & Os is specific to Commissioned Officer...so you are actually accurate in what you said.  I was hoping for the 'groan' 'ffs!' reaction  ;D or maybe a  :facepalm:.

"officer" (officier)means
a.a person who holds Her Majesty's commission in the Canadian Forces,
b.a person who holds the rank of officer cadet in the Canadian Forces, and
c.any person who pursuant to law is attached or seconded as an officer to the Canadian Forces; *

"non-commissioned officer" (sous-officier)means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal;

Oddly enough, there is no definition of Warrant Officer in QR & O, Vol 1, "Definitions".  :Tin-Foil-Hat:

 

[Pkkes871]

0050E from Halifax as a pilot, swearing in on Jan 13th, heading out on the 17th I believe.

 

[macseh]

okok!!!!!!!! enough with the CO!!!!!!!!! and the NCO!!!!!! crap i'm looking for serious feedback thanks! and to those of you who are providing feedback related to the post! thank you..

I have gone for x rays and doctor to see what the scoop and its just my age and the joint that is not used to this training.. could be a factor of my feet ( i am using my orthotics more) my hips, my glutes, or weak thigh muscle..all combined contribute to issues with knees. that being said, i am doing exercises(light) to try to correct the problem ex: static squates, core work, hip flexor, stretching etx..

Also, It's not everyone who is a runner nor who is built for running, so i hope to god that i get an instructor that is not a running fanatic i spoke to many people and its a luck of the draw.. you dont know what you will get until you get there and start!

thanks again for the info and advice/suggestions  much appreciated!

 

[Brasidas]

As someone who's been injured and re-injured with significant consequences, inform your staff of your situation, go to the MIR when you believe you may be hurt (as opposed to pushing yourself), and keep a can-do attitude without seriously jeopardizing yourself.

First blush says you are not in shape for course, and you shouldn't be going. If professional advice says you're fine, great. If it says you're in trouble, be prepared for a medical RTU.

Besides avoiding getting injured in and of itself, you do not want your physical shape to compromise your ability to complete your course. Going on course and getting medical restrictions such as "no PT, no drill" means you can't perform those actions, even when your course is being evaluated on them as a performance check - no field, for instance, if you're supposed to be going to the range, means to PWT. Which can mean you can't do the PC, which can mean you don't get the course.

If you're on chit, be effective within your abilities and your time. Get your studying in for the PO's that you can while your restricted from practicing for the PO's that you can't. Get help from your instructors and your coursemates in the compressed time for PO's where you're restricted.

Avoid getting hurt. Avoid having to be on chit (by avoiding getting hurt), compromising your ability to complete the course. And recourse if you need to. Getting seriously injured sucks, and its not worth breaking yourself for one course.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

okok!!!!!!!! enough with the CO!!!!!!!!! and the NCO!!!!!! crap i'm looking for serious feedback thanks! and to those of you who are providing feedback related to the post! thank you..

Consider if free professional development.  :-*

 

[macseh]

Thanks! I have a few friends who are in AirForce that told me hey! " you are in shape, but it's possible you are just not a runner! and if you need a "chit" because running is causing you PAIN!, THEN GO GET ONE! and don't worry what others think, its your well being" just have a positive attitude and do thing to the best of your ability...

He didn't say that you will be re-coursed because you had restrictions in regards to running..?? is this just an opinion or fact? he seems confident in his opinion. 

whats your opinion on that?

Thanks!

 

[OldSolduer]

Is the FORCE test not the only legit test in the CAF?

My fading memory recalls when I went through Basic (in the days of chariots ) there were certain benchmarks a recruit had to achieve before he/she could graduate.

 

[Brasidas]

Thanks! I have a few friends who are in AirForce that told me hey! " you are in shape, but it's possible you are just not a runner! and if you need a "chit" because running is causing you PAIN!, THEN GO GET ONE! and don't worry what others think, its your well being" just have a positive attitude and do thing to the best of your ability...

He didn't say that you will be re-coursed because you had restrictions in regards to running..?? is this just an opinion or fact? he seems confident in his opinion. 

whats your opinion on that?

Thanks!

Short answer, you'll be a target.

Cardio is important for the field. If you can't keep up, you're ineffective. For PT, running generally equals cardio. Staff will identify you as weak, and it will be difficult for them to help you succeed. Try to help them help you by getting cardio and showing effort to prepare for the field.

If you get restrictions against running alone, I suppose that would avoid getting into issues of missing PC's, etc. However, since circuit training, the backbone of PT, is the alternation of exercising in place and cardio, you would be a rather odd man out. From experience, the chit would likely be "PT at your own pace", and you would be left behind by the group or lag behind, babysat by a staff member.

If you manage to get yourself effectively excused from group PT, and you aren't otherwise restricted medically, push your cardio. If you can possibly get to the gym and use an elliptical (negligible impact), do it. Unless you can make it work during the course's PT time, it will be difficult if not impossible. But not having cardio fitness, especially in comparison to your peers, will hurt you badly in the field.

Don't expect to just go to the MIR and get excused from running. You may end up with more restrictions than you intend. That then sets you up for missing PCs, as mentioned earlier.

Things might work out for you, but you're not setting yourself up for success as things are.

 

[Ayrsayle]

Is the FORCE test not the only legit test in the CAF?

My fading memory recalls when I went through Basic (in the days of chariots ) there were certain benchmarks a recruit had to achieve before he/she could graduate.

It's been a few years, but my understanding is the benchmarks of the EXPRES test are gone.  The FORCE test is all that remains to institutionally "assess" fitness.

To Macseh:  Brasidas is completely correct in what a lack of fitness means to a candidate.  In my opinion (and stressing this is my opinion, not fact), an officer who expects to be seen as a leader and respected by the men he leads should be confident in his own ability (PT or otherwise) to meet or exceed what your subordinates will expect of you.  Sadly, the institutional standard has eroded and assuming that these minimums would in any way reflect actual combat situations is dangerous at best.  I completely agree with the idea that if you are injured, you need to seek medical assistance and treatment in order to ensure you are able to meet your obligations - But individuals who join the forces knowingly unfit and incapable of meeting the fitness level of their peers would lead me (and no doubt others) to question their dedication, not to mention ethical and leadership material.  Many people in the CAF are "not runners" - but they also don't fall out of group runs.  They work harder.

"Doing things to the best of your ability" is not just showing up on test day and only then trying hard.  It is about being at a level where you are ready to meet what is unexpectedly thrown at you - something that takes dedication and a willingness to develop your weaknesses.

As Brasidas pointed out - You may or may not succeed (no one on the internet is going to be able to answer that).  Reputations have a way of following you however, long after the course has finished both in the eyes of your peers and in the instructors who taught you.

 

[macseh]

Thanks guys for taking the time for your input! Don't get me wrong, I do Pt! I go to gym, I train! that's not the point.. I have NO!!! doubt that i will pass the FORCE test. The Question was and still is a hypothetical one; "How much running is there and what if something happens where you need to have restrictions on the running" that's it.. i understand that it may not be that simple and clear cut, that there may be further restrictions placed on you in that situation. Who knows?

People i talked to said don't make it a bigger issue than what it is. " Wait and see what your platoon leader is like and the kind of PT that they give you" This can vary from what i understand, no platoon has the exact same pt.( within reason) It's dependent on your course leader.

On a side note! I don't get why there is so much emphasis put on the capability of someone being able to run often and for distance? and how this somehow has any correlation with your ethics, morals and willingness to want to lead and succeed? sorry, but that sees a little extreme. My intentions are sound, intact, ethical, and my desire to succeed is stronger than ever before.  Whether or not at my age (40) I have the ability to run every day is in no relation or a reflection of my ethical moral fiber. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Just a little side note here to consider re: PT and the Mega.  For someone not in great shape, day to day life at the Mega is or can be a challenge.  Aside from the morning PT sessions with Course staff you are discussing here...

- You aren't allowed to use the elevators (unless you have a medical chit saying so...which means you are injured), therefore you will make multiple trips up and down X sets of stairs every day - you could be on the top floor.

- you will do drill periods.  Yes, they take their toll and I've seen recruits and OCdts injured during this (minor stuff that can catch up over time; sore heels, blisters, sore knee, etc).

- you will do PT with the PSP staff.  You will be running.

- you will march and/or 'double' all over the base to get from Point A to Point B. 

- you will participate in field training such as topo (navigation old-school w/map and compass), obstacle courses and field exercises.  Not sure what its like now, but the one the BOTP folks did was a bit of a go and incorporated the 'apply basic leadership' aspects; you had to do more than just move your carcass around for a few days.

If you are putting together a mental picture where you are moving your body around under its own steam, at various speeds, distances and carrying a variety of very light to moderate kit loads, you are getting an idea of what I'm talking about.

Now, throw in the fact that you'll be breaking in a few pair of combat boots...

 

[Eye In The Sky]

On a side note! I don't get why there is so much emphasis put on the capability of someone being able to run often and for distance?

It's an indication (1 of them) of your physical endurance and cardio capability.  Because sometimes the job is physically hard and you don't have to option to 'tap out'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPC5UeAUGhE

and how this somehow has any correlation with your ethics, morals and willingness to want to lead and succeed? sorry, but that sees a little extreme. My intentions are sound, intact, ethical, and my desire to succeed is stronger than ever before.  Whether or not at my age (40) I have the ability to run every day is in no relation or a reflection of my ethical moral fiber. 

It IS however, related to your ability to pass even the first level of training.  I can want to be an astronaut and have great ethics and morales.  Doesn't mean I can cut it as an astronaut.

The link between the 'ethics' part and the 'ability' part comes in when people who lack some of the ability part take the ethical shortcut and attempt to skirt doing PT and field stuff by visiting the MIR.  It happens and most of us have seen something like this in our careers.  Those people who take that ethical lowground have a hard time establishing respect and credibility and that is NOT good for anyone in the CAF but, IMO and others, is far more concerning for someone who is going to be 'in command'.  I believe they were speaking in general terms so you could consider things/aspects you wouldn't know intuitively yourself but not questioning 'your' morals. 

 

[Brasidas]

Whether or not at my age (40) I have the ability to run every day is in no relation or a reflection of my ethical moral fiber.

(Ninja'd by EITS' second post. I whole-heartedly second his comments.)

It is the primary means of training troops for cardiovascular fitness, which means stamina, which means fitness for the field. If you have very strong cardio that you train by other means, great. Your biggest problems are image (your fitness for the field will be questioned by instructors), administrative (getting to the MIR, being "properly diagnosed" - getting a chit that says "no running" and imposes no other restrictions that jeopardize your course), and avoiding getting injured while not on restrictions.

If you don't have very strong cardio, you're not only going to be dragging butt and ineffective in the field, you're going to be more likely to get injured due to inattention and fatigue. With knees that aren't great, that's even more likely.

There are reasons that running affects your ability to successfully complete the course, based on more reasons than ethics. And as EITS points out, there are other activities that will put impact on your knees.

 

[Ayrsayle]

It IS however, related to your ability to pass even the first level of training.  I can want to be an astronaut and have great ethics and morales.  Doesn't mean I can cut it as an astronaut.

The link between the 'ethics' part and the 'ability' part comes in when people who lack some of the ability part take the ethical shortcut and attempt to skirt doing PT and field stuff by visiting the MIR.  It happens and most of us have seen something like this in our careers.  Those people who take that ethical lowground have a hard time establishing respect and credibility and that is NOT good for anyone in the CAF but, IMO and others, is far more concerning for someone who is going to be 'in command'.  I believe they were speaking in general terms so you could consider things/aspects you wouldn't know intuitively yourself but not questioning 'your' morals.

ETIS already made the point for me - The point wasn't to target your ethical fiber, but to point out how a lack of fitness can be perceived.  Age plays very little into how you are perceived if you are competent and capable - I had the pleasure of finishing a challenging course with a 53 year old and the only comment was how impressive this individual was for being able to complete it alongside his peers.  If he had spent the majority of his time on the course in and out of the MIR due to a lack of fitness and not endured the same as the rest of us, I have little doubt the perception of him would be very different.  If you are within the realm of moderately fit, BMOQ shouldn't be much of a challenge physically.  It is the basic course after all.  It will put more strain on your body then most civilian occupations however, and it will be coupled with (some) mental and physical exhaustion. 

I'll admit some of this is the Infantry in me talking and we tend to be a bit zealous when it comes to fitness.  There have been (many) times where what was expected of me far exceeded the minimum standards for physical fitness.  Striving for the minimum will have an impact on your image - both on BMOQ and in the future.  As an NCO was happy to point out to me in the first few months on the job:  "We aren't privates - we don't have the luxury of coming in as crap and slowly getting better.  We are the example they look to, to sort themselves out.  So don't ever be at the back of the line, unless that is what you expect from the troops".  >

 

[Dingodan]

I have been offered a position as a pilot, flying out January 17th, and swearing in January 13th.

However, I am still not positive if I will accept the position.

I was wondering what everyone's background is.  Maybe it can put my mind at ease.

I currently have a permanent full time management job (8-5), with great pay and benefits (more than pilot starting salary).

I am 24 years old.  I own a house and live with my girlfriend (common law), and have a dog.  All of my family is in the city I grew up in. I am having troubles deciding if I want to leave that all behind to pursue my dream as a pilot in the CF.

Today at lunch I was contemplating if I should join the forces when I took my dog outside when two military jets (Hawks) flew directly overhead.  I'm thinking that may have been a sign!

Is anyone in a similar situation?  I would love to hear your story!  Perhaps our partners could use each other as a support network.


Let me know!

 

[pd89]

I have been offered a position as a pilot, flying out January 17th, and swearing in January 13th.

However, I am still not positive if I will accept the position.

I was wondering what everyone's background is.  Maybe it can put my mind at ease.

I currently have a permanent full time management job (8-5), with great pay and benefits (more than pilot starting salary).

I am 24 years old.  I own a house and live with my girlfriend (common law), and have a dog.  All of my family is in the city I grew up in. I am having troubles deciding if I want to leave that all behind to pursue my dream as a pilot in the CF.

Today at lunch I was contemplating if I should join the forces when I took my dog outside when two military jets (Hawks) flew directly overhead.  I'm thinking that may have been a sign!

Is anyone in a similar situation?  I would love to hear your story!  Perhaps our partners could use each other as a support network.


Let me know!

I was offered an aerospace control officer position in December and officially rejected it today.  I am 25 years old, male, currently in the process of moving out of my parents basement, have two degrees, and always wanted to join the Canadian Forces. I applied in 2012, when I just turned 23, with every intention of joining the Canadian Forces. But, after my application dragged on, I had to start looking at other options. A month before being offered an AEC position, I wound up getting offered a well paying permanent job that involves manual labor but is definetly something I enjoy doing. I rejected the AEC offer not so much because of financial, family, or geographic considerations, but more so because my experience as an applicant served as a window into the bureaucratic mess that I would have to deal with as an officer. Furthermore, after talking to a few officer's, I became aware that it really is an office job, and that much of my time would involve engaging in essentially redundant tasks. Not for me, but good luck to everyone else heading to basic in January.