BGen Ménard relieved of Afganistan Comd & other fall-outs
- Thread starter Sig_Des
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TV the only fact released is that BG Menard was relieved. The cause is the subject of speculation. Frankly his ND should have been enough to have him relieved if my reading of previous ND cases that were prosecuted. In fact he admitted guilt and yet he remained in command. Yet an allegation of violating fraternization gets Menard relieved. Double standard ?
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tomahawk6 said:
Not necessarily. As per "Duty With Discernment", the CF does not have a Zero Fault mentality and understands that nobody is infallible. People are allowed to make a mistake that results in something bad happening (ND), but they are not allowed to do wrong.
Having an ND, even if argued as careless, is still at the end of the day not a malicious act brought about by bad character/leadership.
Added - And as posted below, one has to assume that his bosses are fully informed and would not do something as significant as this on a whim. CF rules of basic conflict resolution in fact state that the accused must remain in position until reasonable evidence exists that wrongdoing has taken place (the accuser being the one to get moved).
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tomahawk6 said:
Or, possibly, senior commanders have further information which has not been shared with the media.
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Or it could be as simple as something involving a camel and a straw.
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An allegation of a violation of Military Law is enough to cause relief. The purpose of that is to prevent the accused from interfering with the investigation. So I dont have a problem with Menards relief. I also agree that an ND is normally non-judicial punishment - unless someone is wounded or killed by the ND. Maybe under CF rules ND's are treated as a court martial offense ?
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Really. ND's, and Shagging.
As much as I would love him for being "Human", He would lay the law to crucify anyone else doing the same. Totally unacceptable.
We have a Colonel, of the same age and disposition in life, paying the ultimate sacrifice doing their job, and this momo is using the tour as jaunt.
dileas
tess
As much as I would love him for being "Human", He would lay the law to crucify anyone else doing the same. Totally unacceptable.
We have a Colonel, of the same age and disposition in life, paying the ultimate sacrifice doing their job, and this momo is using the tour as jaunt.
dileas
tess
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Folks. let's attempt to retain a modicum of professionalism until the true statement of facts are released.
Your cooperation is appreciated, lest we see ourselves quoted in print again.
Milnet.ca Staff
Your cooperation is appreciated, lest we see ourselves quoted in print again.
Milnet.ca Staff
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tomahawk6 said:
It's rank-dependent. Over a certain rank it's automatically CM.
Most mere mortals get the choice of Summary Trial (quick and relatively painless) or CM (long, drawn out, more powers of punishment).
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Alright, I've cleaned this one up again. Once more and we'll simply lock it because nobody wants to play nice.
As the staff message above states, let's maintain a sense of professionalism and avoid kniving the guy to bits on the internet.
As the staff message above states, let's maintain a sense of professionalism and avoid kniving the guy to bits on the internet.
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tomahawk6 said:
Petamocto said:
When I got charged for an ND I had no choice, it went straight to Summary Trial..... was quick and painless... all I had to do was pay a fine....
J
jollyjacktar
Guest
At any rate you can just hear the needle going across the record on this one.
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NFLD Sapper said:
That is what he also got for his ND a fine. It happened in Kosov With the CO of the Dragoons. He leaned forward in the tank his helmet hit the manual fire plunger on the CO-AX and fired a burst in to the tank in front of him. He plead Guilty and was fined.
It also doesn't matter the caliber either. The boys in MSG had a ND with a 105mm and The amount was the same a 5.56.
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Tank Troll said:
Very different.
NFLD Sapper said he did not get to elect ST or CM, it just went to ST.
BGen Menard had a CM, and did not get to choose.
The fact that they both ended up with a fine does not make a ST and CM the same.
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The media went into a piranha-like feeding frenzy on this one; the joys of a sex related scandal on a Sunday.
Lets see how long this story will have legs.
The only thing concerning is that with the spotlight being on CF Sr leadership, and their "transgressions", it is giving peoples, who are in need of a ringhold to discredit the military (i.e. Afghan detainees), a foothold argument by which they will try to point out that we are not as honourable or as disciplined as we all make ourselves out to be.
Lets see how long this story will have legs.
The only thing concerning is that with the spotlight being on CF Sr leadership, and their "transgressions", it is giving peoples, who are in need of a ringhold to discredit the military (i.e. Afghan detainees), a foothold argument by which they will try to point out that we are not as honourable or as disciplined as we all make ourselves out to be.
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Jack Granatstein had this to say:
"Granatstein said the accusation against Menard does not reflect a wider problem within the higher ranks of the military.
The allegation delivers a black eye to Menard, rather than the military, Granatstein said.":
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100530/national/afghan_cda_commander_relieved
"Granatstein said the accusation against Menard does not reflect a wider problem within the higher ranks of the military.
The allegation delivers a black eye to Menard, rather than the military, Granatstein said.":
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100530/national/afghan_cda_commander_relieved
Tough-as-nails fire-plug Vance is unlike Ménard in almost every way
By MATTHEW FISHER, Canwest News Service May 31, 2010
Article Link
If any soldier is well suited to replace Canada's Afghan commander, Brig.-Gen. Daniel Ménard - suddenly sent home in disgrace this weekend after allegations of an affair - it would be his emergency replacement, Brig.-Gen. Jon Vance, fellow soldiers say.
When a colonel in Kabul familiar with NATO operations across the south of Afghanistan was asked last fall what would be the best thing Canada could do to make its mission in Kandahar a success, his prophetic answer was: "Just leave Jon Vance there for two more years."
Told of this high praise at the time, Vance replied that he had been fortunate to serve when U.S. reinforcements were flowing in. This summer, with even more Americans surging into Canada's battle space, Vance will be running the war for NATO in four districts abutting Kandahar City as well as in the provincial capital itself.
Vance preceded Ménard as commander in Afghanistan. He's now being rushed to Kandahar to take over for Ménard and will command the Canadian task force again until September.
A general's son and, like Ménard, a career infantry officer, Vance's warrior spirit won over the senior British and U.S. commanders he worked with during the 10 months he served in Kandahar last year. In particular, he forged close relationships with NATO's top commander, U.S. army General Stanley McChrystal, and British Maj.-Gen. Nick Carter, ISAF Regional Command South.
Vance will have a chance to refine the second phase of the classic counter-insurgency strategy that he adopted early in his Kandahar tenure. Where his soldiers spent much of last year clearing the Taliban out of what were to become "model villages," the Canadians have mostly been in a hold phase lately as they start to do a little building.
Ménard and Vance may have grown up in the same army, but the two generals are very different types in every respect. Where Ménard is lanky, relaxed and always charming, Vance is a diminutive fire plug with a reputation as a driven, tough-as-nails commander.
During one of his last battlefield visits as commander of Task Force Kandahar last November, Vance lectured leaders in Panjwaii and Zhari districts that westerners had grown impatient with Afghanistan's political class and that if corruption and misrule continued they might strike their tents and go home: "We have lost too many soldiers and spent too much of our people's money to stay if there is not honest co-operation. Canadians, Americans, the British - everyone is wondering whether it is worth it to stay."
end
By MATTHEW FISHER, Canwest News Service May 31, 2010
Article Link
If any soldier is well suited to replace Canada's Afghan commander, Brig.-Gen. Daniel Ménard - suddenly sent home in disgrace this weekend after allegations of an affair - it would be his emergency replacement, Brig.-Gen. Jon Vance, fellow soldiers say.
When a colonel in Kabul familiar with NATO operations across the south of Afghanistan was asked last fall what would be the best thing Canada could do to make its mission in Kandahar a success, his prophetic answer was: "Just leave Jon Vance there for two more years."
Told of this high praise at the time, Vance replied that he had been fortunate to serve when U.S. reinforcements were flowing in. This summer, with even more Americans surging into Canada's battle space, Vance will be running the war for NATO in four districts abutting Kandahar City as well as in the provincial capital itself.
Vance preceded Ménard as commander in Afghanistan. He's now being rushed to Kandahar to take over for Ménard and will command the Canadian task force again until September.
A general's son and, like Ménard, a career infantry officer, Vance's warrior spirit won over the senior British and U.S. commanders he worked with during the 10 months he served in Kandahar last year. In particular, he forged close relationships with NATO's top commander, U.S. army General Stanley McChrystal, and British Maj.-Gen. Nick Carter, ISAF Regional Command South.
Vance will have a chance to refine the second phase of the classic counter-insurgency strategy that he adopted early in his Kandahar tenure. Where his soldiers spent much of last year clearing the Taliban out of what were to become "model villages," the Canadians have mostly been in a hold phase lately as they start to do a little building.
Ménard and Vance may have grown up in the same army, but the two generals are very different types in every respect. Where Ménard is lanky, relaxed and always charming, Vance is a diminutive fire plug with a reputation as a driven, tough-as-nails commander.
During one of his last battlefield visits as commander of Task Force Kandahar last November, Vance lectured leaders in Panjwaii and Zhari districts that westerners had grown impatient with Afghanistan's political class and that if corruption and misrule continued they might strike their tents and go home: "We have lost too many soldiers and spent too much of our people's money to stay if there is not honest co-operation. Canadians, Americans, the British - everyone is wondering whether it is worth it to stay."
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- Reaction score
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QR&O 108.6
“163. (1) A commanding officer may try an accused person by summary trial if all of the following conditions are satisfied:
(a) the accused person is either an officer cadet or a non-commissioned member below the rank of warrant officer;
For General Officers, there is no oppurtunity to elect.
“163. (1) A commanding officer may try an accused person by summary trial if all of the following conditions are satisfied:
(a) the accused person is either an officer cadet or a non-commissioned member below the rank of warrant officer;
For General Officers, there is no oppurtunity to elect.
- Reaction score
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Petamocto said:
I realize that a ST and a CM are different. I was saying that the out come was the same, a fine. Sorry if that was hard to understand from my post. My Bad
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