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BGen Ménard relieved of Afganistan Comd & other fall-outs

Retired AF Guy

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triniman said:
There's a article online now from the Winnipeg Sun

"Chris Lemay, a spokesman for the Canadian Expeditionary Forces Command, told QMI Agency the department of defence has a "zero tolerance on personal relationships and fraternization" with members within the forces, as well as with members of the joint task force Afghanistan."  http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2010/05/29/14187296.html

Excuse me?  Military members date, live with and marry other military members all the time.

Can someone clarify the zero tolerance statement, please.

There was a famous case during Canada's deployment in the Balkans (around '98 or so) where a Canadian officer (Capt?) got canned for having a relationship female Brit officer, eventhough both were single. Heck, I remember hearing that even married couple's posted overseas were not allowed to "get together" because their co-workers might get jealous.
 

Neolithium

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Colin P said:
Already on his facebook with to much glee

I never heard of him before this thread, so I took a peek at his facebook page.  Some of the support comments from random people are pretty nauseating.
 

tomahawk6

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Unfortunately,all too often we see in the news that a politician resigns due to an inappropriate sexual incident.It happens with sports stars,military men and yes the guy next door. At the end of the day the one who has ruined his reputation has to wonder if the liason was worth losing everything for a fling. I used to think we in the military like knights of old held to a higher standard. Instead we seem to be no different than the civilian down the street and thats a damn shame. I knew a SGT Major of the Army who had to retire as an E8 because of his fling. Then there was the four star General who ended his career with a daliance. The one thing in common was the harm done to their own family,reputation and it besmirches all who serve. There should be zero tolerance from the top down and not after the horse has left the barn.
 

Eye In The Sky

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I love how the media publishes the parts of military regulations, in this case DAOD 5019-1 that they chose to, and not the whole regulation:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canadas-top-soldier-in-afghanistan-relieved-of-duty/article1585697/

According to military policy, fraternization “means any relationship between a CF member and a person from an enemy or belligerent force, or a CF member and a local inhabitant within a theatre of operations where CF members are deployed.”

A personal relationship, according to the same directive, “means an emotional, romantic, sexual or family relationship, including marriage or a common-law partnership or civil union, between two CF members, or a CF member and a DND employee or contractor, or a member of an allied force.”

This, of course, is a PART of DAOD 5019-1, Personal Relationships and Fraternization, link below:

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5019-1-eng.asp

It appears to me the way this is being published is misleading.  CF members CAN be involved with other members of the CF.  This is covered in further parts of the DAOD:

A CF member in a personal relationship with another CF member, DND employee or member of an allied force, contractor or an employee of a contractor shall not be involved, regardless of rank or authority, in the other person's:

performance assessment or reporting, including training evaluations and audits;

posting, transfer or attached posting;

individual training or education;

duties or scheduling for duties;

documents or records;

grievance process; or

release proceedings.

CF members shall notify their chain of command of any personal relationship that could compromise the objectives of this DAOD.


Perhaps it helps to put ALL applicable parts of a directive in the article.  ::)

From the same article:

An official in Defence Minister Peter MacKay's office said the allegations against Brig-Gen. Ménard involve a member of his staff, but no further details could be provided while they are under investigation by the Canadian Forces Investigation Service.

If this allegation is found to be true, that is where the issue would lie, IAW this particular DAOD.

* this post is not for those of us familiar with CF directives, but for those who are following this thread, whether it be citizens, reporters, etc with hopes to gleem some info, comments and whatnot from serving members.
 
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jollyjacktar

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Canadian CO relieved of Kandahar duty
Last Updated: Saturday, May 29, 2010 | 10:51 PM ET Comments221Recommend146
CBC News
Canada's top soldier in Kandahar, Brig.-Gen. Daniel Ménard, has been relieved of command.Canada's top soldier in Kandahar, Brig.-Gen. Daniel Ménard, has been relieved of command. (Adrian Wyld/Canadian Press)

Brig.-Gen. Daniel Ménard has been relieved of command of Canadian troops in Afghanistan following allegations he was involved in an inappropriate personal relationship while in theatre.

Military sources have told CBC News that Ménard, head of Joint Task Force Kandahar, is alleged to have had an affair with a female member of his staff.

The military has strict rules forbidding its personnel from engaging in personal relationships while in theatre. They include relationships of an emotional, romantic or sexual nature.

The Defence Department issued a statement saying only that the decision was made following "allegations concerning Ménard's inappropriate conduct related to the Canadian Forces personal relationships and fraternization directives."

Ménard's spouse also serves in the Forces.

Col. Simon Hetherington said Lt.-Gen. Marc Lessard made the decision to relieve Ménard of his duties after he lost confidence in Ménard's ability to command.

An investigation into the allegations has been launched, DND said.

Hetherington has been designated acting commander in the interim. In the near future, Brig.-Gen. Jon Vance will assume command, pending the arrival of the next commander, Brig.-Gen. Dean Milner, DND said.

Earlier this week, Ménard was fined $3,500 — the stiffest fine ever levied on a soldier for mishandling a weapon.

He received the fine after pleading guilty to an offence under the National Defence Act in a court in Gatineau, Que.

The March 25 incident occurred as Ménard and his boss, chief of defence staff Gen. Walt Natynczyk, were about to board a Blackhawk helicopter at Kandahar Airfield.

Ménard said he was loading his C8 carbine, something he has done thousands of times, when it discharged. No one was injured and nothing was damaged, but the National Defence Act makes it an offence to accidentally discharge a weapon.

Ménard formally took over from Vance as top officer for Task Force Kandahar last November.
With files from The Canadian Press

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/05/29/kandahar-menard.html#ixzz0pP6hLZIl
 

vonGarvin

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Eye in the Sky:
Thank you for posting that info.  I was going to do the same to emphasise my earlier point that "personal relationships" are not always sexual, and that's that.

Edit to add the following (for Dog, et al):
Now, we here may think "Curse you, Michael Yon!"; however, irrespective of anyone's opinion of him, read that last part of the respective DAOD.  I'll post it for you again:
CF members shall notify their chain of command of any personal relationship that could compromise the objectives of this DAOD.
I think I highlighted the relevant part well enough.  IT IS YOUR DUTY AS A CF MEMBER to report to your chain of command such "stuff".  If Mr. Michael Yon likes to think that he's doing the right thing because he's getting generals sacked, let him.  The fact is this: BGen Menard was no more sacked due to Michael Yon than my last promotion could be attributed to Mr. Yon.


 

The Bread Guy

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Holy fack!

This from the CF (PDF attached if link doesn't work):
Commander Canadian Expeditionary Force Command (CEFCOM), Lieutenant-General Marc Lessard announced today that he has relieved Brigadier-General Daniel Menard from his position as Commander Joint-Task Force Afghanistan (JTF-Afg) and has designated Colonel Simon Hetherington as Acting Commander in the interim.

LGen Lessard made this decision following allegations concerning BGen Menard’s inappropriate conduct related to the Canadian Forces Personal Relationships and Fraternization directives, which caused Commander CEFCOM to lose confidence in BGen Menard’s capacity to command.

An investigation into the circumstances related to the allegations is being launched.

In the near future, the Canadian Forces will dispatch former JTF-Afg Commander, Brigadier-General Jon Vance to Afghanistan to assume command, pending the arrival of the next JTF-Afg Commander, Brigadier-General Dean Milner.
 

SeanNewman

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Technoviking said:
As for BGen Vance going back in: good for him.  He is rather familiar with the area, and the various personalities in theatre.

And he's a Royal Canadian, which obviously means he's the best  ;)

Triniman,

It's not demoralizing for a soldier in Canada to see two service people in Canada having a relationship (not groping in uniform, obviously).

However, for someone deployed overseas who is happily married but going through a very hard time being apart from his family in Canada, it would be demoralizing for him to see two people in Afghanistan carrying on a happy relationship.
 

HItorMiss

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Mr Vance has a lot of fans Royal and non Royal alike. I know he will once again do a great job as Comd RC South.


And like Petmocto says he is a Royal Canadian so on principle alone he is awesome. actually I have served a couple of times under him and I both respect and like the man; very sharp and focused on the task and a brain to match the Infantry mind set.
 

SeanNewman

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He certainly practices COIN like few others before him.  A lot of people could tell you what COIN was all about, but then get to Kandahar and it was all living in FOBs and doing 2-3 day ops on compounds of interest.

Gen Vance was out there doing the business and living among the people.
 

Gunner98

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BulletMagnet said:
Mr Vance has a lot of fans Royal and non Royal alike. I know he will once again do a great job as Comd RC South.

BGen Vance was not, nor will he be Commander RC(S) on this temporary assignment.  RC(S) is commanded by British Maj. Gen. Nick Carter.  BGen Vance will assume BGen Menard's role as Commander Task Force Kandahar.
 

SeanNewman

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Simian Turner said:
....  BGen Vance will assume BGen Menard's role as Commander Task Force Kandahar.

And even at that, it's a very different Kandahar than it was even as late as 08-09.  As mentioned above, the amount of US and Afghan battalions is now off the charts and the Canadian BG AO has shrank to little more than a district.
 

HItorMiss

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My bad you are right, in my defense I was still drunk from last nights fight when I posted I should probably wait for sobriety before posting.

Regardless of the slip in his command position Mr Vance knows how to accomplish his mission when he was there last was the begining of the American "surge" and he is very much used to having them under his command. I think he will once again change the way we conduct operations in Kandahar for the better.
 

mariomike

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"Rumours swirl after dismissal of Canadian commander in Afghanistan":
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Rumours+swirl+after+dismissal+Canadian+commander/3090065/story.html
 
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I've had the conversation with peers about personal relationships between members several times over the years. I know a number of happily, and some less than happily, married military couples. Let's face it, it is going to happen. It should never involve members within the same chain of command, and if a relationship develops, someone needs to be moved and moved quickly. There are also certain circumstances where it should never be tolerated, i.e. instructors and recruits.

To see so senior an officer, make so basic an error in judgment is rather disappointing, but I guess we are all too human.
 

vonGarvin

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Tetragrammaton said:
To see so senior an officer, alleged to make so basic an error in judgment is rather disappointing, but I guess we are all too human.
There, fixed that for you.  Let us remember that in absence of facts, media like to report rumours.  We don't.  We stick to facts.


(as Mentor)
 

KevinB

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Two Negligent Discharged in one tour...

;D

His wife is going to take him to the cleaners.




 
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